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  1. #81
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    I love how Counterfeit Gil can be NPC'd for like 2800 gil. I wonder what happens (from an RP standpoint). Do you tell the shopkeep your 2800(counterfeit) gil is rusty and would like to exchange it for cleaner gil? Does he know it's counterfeit and buys it off you as a novelty? Or maybe theyre trying to get the counterfeit gil off the market so theyre exchanging real gil for it?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    I love how Counterfeit Gil can be NPC'd for like 2800 gil. I wonder what happens (from an RP standpoint). Do you tell the shopkeep your 2800(counterfeit) gil is rusty and would like to exchange it for cleaner gil? Does he know it's counterfeit and buys it off you as a novelty? Or maybe theyre trying to get the counterfeit gil off the market so theyre exchanging real gil for it?
    Either of the second reasons works for me. Perhaps related to getting it off the market, maybe there's a "bounty" of 2,800 gil for each counterfeit piece?

  3. #83
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    I rather like the first reason, because it means screwing over merchants that try to sell things at exorbitant prices (3375 for a Hi-Potion? what the hell!)

  4. #84
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    Was watching some THF AF cutscenes out of boredom yesterday.

    According to Vauderame, Atarefaunet was killed during the Crystal War. But apparently he's impersonating Louverance in CoP? How does this make sense. >_>

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradition View Post
    Was watching some THF AF cutscenes out of boredom yesterday.

    According to Vauderame, Atarefaunet was killed during the Crystal War. But apparently he's impersonating Louverance in CoP? How does this make sense. >_>
    Ohohoho! This one I know really really well. You find out these details by doing the quest "Tea With A Tonberry?!" which is a followup to "Signed In Blood". I actually knew about Louverance's secret long before the reveal because I did those quests early on (it makes you see the scenes involving him in a very different light.) As a side note for those who follow along:

    Spoiler: show
    Purple mask = False Louverance, who is really Atarefaunet. Red mask = Real Louverance. Also, note that one line of missions in CoP gives the title "Companion of Louverance", while another gives "True Companion of Louverance". Yes, they match up with the fake and authentic versions.


    Anyways, I'm getting sidetracked. As to your question:

    Spoiler: show
    During the Beastmen attack on Tavnazia, Atarefaunet was captured by the bounty hunter Goldmane (real name: Vukki-Chebukki - yes, THAT Chebukki.) Goldmane was richly rewarded for capturing Atarefaunet, but had lost his family in the attack because he left them behind in Tavnazia while pursuing Atarefaunet. Heartbroken, he gave up being a bounty hunter and used the reward money to purchase the island of Purgonorgo.

    Atarefaunet was thrown into Bostaunieux Oubliette awaiting execution. However, he had done a number of "services" for various San d'Orian nobles, and many of them were afraid that he might rat them out in exchange for clemency. One of them attempted to poison him in his cell. Atarefaunet detected the attempt, but took advantage of it - he faked his death and escaped. The Royal Knights believe he is dead, and that's the way he likes it.


    It might be worth going back and reading some of the various passages from the CoP missions with this knowledge in mind, especially Louverance's Path in CoP 5-3. You can learn a bit more about the various players as a result.

    EDIT: Hey, can I have a Vana'diel Historian title or something? :D

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seyrr

    As a side note, Al'Taieu was almost certainly located at what is now Qufim Island - the Sea of Shu'Meyo, which is where the portal to Al'Taieu is found, seems to cover an area that was practically scooped out of Qufim. Qufim and Al'Taieu have similar landscaping as well, odd coloring aside - the rock is similar, as well as the general appearance of the terrain.
    It is Very easy to see this:

    Don't mind my crude photoshop of the map...
    Also, I included two paintings...

    One shows that Al'Taieu surrounded on all sides by land making it appear as though the Qufim Crescent that we see today was more than likely like a Donut with Al'Taieu in the center.

    Also, another painting shows that Tu'Lia was actually built in a lake behind Ro'Maeve before floating off to its final spot above Delkfuts tower.

  7. #87
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    In the Ro'Maeve picture that is most definitely Tu'Lia before it was sent up to the sky

  8. #88

    I have a few series of questions for plot holes i've noticed and could never put my finger on...

    Avatars, we have our Celestial and Terrestrial. Celestial being elemental gods (Shiva, Garuda, etc) and they deem themselves the "True Gods" of the crystals. Terrestrial avatars (being carby, diabolos, bahamut, etc) were avatars born of the crystals, and if vana'diel is returned to paradise, they will return to normal beasts.

    My questions are:

    1) From what I gathered from the storylines, the Zilart are trying to open the gates of paradise. Also, supposidly each time you obtain an eye or whisper from one of the celestial avatars, they become closer to waking, and when they do they will attempt to also open the gates with the zilart. Why would Altana want to allow this? I'm asking because at the end of the avatar legends, it is Altana who calls them to the heavens. If Vana'diel is returned to paradise, only the celestial avatars and the zilart would remain alive, while all of the races and beastmen would be wiped out, and all the terrestrial avatars would be reduced to beasts. Seems counter-productive of Altana to allow something like that to happen

    2) Its understandable as a summoner to have all the pacts with the avatars, but supposidly if the celestial look down on the terrestrial, why are the two connected? If their agendas are seperate, why would carby guide you along to obtain the whispers from them, if doing so would bring them closer to awakening?

    Just a few plot hole twists i've been struggling to find the connection to, any helps? Thanks :D

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necros View Post
    2) Its understandable as a summoner to have all the pacts with the avatars, but supposidly if the celestial look down on the terrestrial, why are the two connected? If their agendas are seperate, why would carby guide you along to obtain the whispers from them, if doing so would bring them closer to awakening?
    IIRC, Carbuncle's plan to save the world is to ally with the celestials.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagacious Sundi View Post
    IIRC, Carbuncle's plan to save the world is to ally with the celestials.
    Yes.

    Spoiler: show
    By spreading summoning, he plans on making the Celestial avatars care about people. Each time a summoner calls a Celestial avatar, part of that person's hopes and dreams are felt by the slumbering god. He thinks that this will make them awaken less cranky.

    But remember, we only think that the slumbering gods are going to try to open the gates of paradise, this may not be what they truly want. Odin was awakened, he did not try to open the gates of paradise, or even free the other slumber gods, he went to Aht Urghan to find a new Dark Rider and continue his fight with Alexander.


    Here is a huge-ass plot whole that a lot of people noticed, but since I have been redoing the Windurst missions on my second character I remembered just how plot hole-y it was. Spoiler tagging it for people who haven't done the Windurst missions.

    Spoiler: show
    Redoing The Sixth Ministry mission, it reinforced how dangerous the Star Sybill considered summoning magic. Karaha-Baruha told her about his plan for summoning 30 years ago, and started the Animistery 25 years ago, she was dead-set against anyone else learning about summoning and they kept the ministry secret. Now, we go back to the past and there are summoners in the Windurst army. They try to get around it by saying that it was learned from Far-eastern tomes, but it was stated Karaha-Baruha "invented" summoning from the text of the Book of the Gods. This is a pretty huge plot-hole, they should have just not had any summoners in the past.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus View Post
    Here is a huge-ass plot whole that a lot of people noticed, but since I have been redoing the Windurst missions on my second character I remembered just how plot hole-y it was. Spoiler tagging it for people who haven't done the Windurst missions.

    Spoiler: show
    Redoing The Sixth Ministry mission, it reinforced how dangerous the Star Sybill considered summoning magic. Karaha-Baruha told her about his plan for summoning 30 years ago, and started the Animistery 25 years ago, she was dead-set against anyone else learning about summoning and they kept the ministry secret. Now, we go back to the past and there are summoners in the Windurst army. They try to get around it by saying that it was learned from Far-eastern tomes, but it was stated Karaha-Baruha "invented" summoning from the text of the Book of the Gods. This is a pretty huge plot-hole, they should have just not had any summoners in the past.
    The way i understood that issue is that Baruha only (re)discovered "full summoning" as he called it.
    Spoiler: show
    Magic itself was "invented" by the Zilart and Kuulu. The Zilart found a way to harness the power of the crystals and devided the light by its elements. That seems to be the original form of elemental magic. The Kuulu found out that the power of each living being can also be harnessed. More powerful "animals" would create more powerful magic. So that would be the original form of summoning. Eventually the Zilart adapted that form of magic too, which would explain the imprisoned beings in their structures (like sky gods for example).
    Throughout the storyline it is often mentioned that the Kuulu made a pact with the terrestial avatars. Which may be true for Bahamut. But their structures rather imply that those were build to fully harness the avatars powers (then again, maybe that was part of the pact they made).


    When Baruha tried to bound Fenrir under his will (full summoning) he actually used the Horototo ruins to do so.
    The form of summoning from the tomes is the same form of summoning the players use.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus View Post
    Here is a huge-ass plot whole that a lot of people noticed, but since I have been redoing the Windurst missions on my second character I remembered just how plot hole-y it was. Spoiler tagging it for people who haven't done the Windurst missions.

    Spoiler: show
    Redoing The Sixth Ministry mission, it reinforced how dangerous the Star Sybill considered summoning magic. Karaha-Baruha told her about his plan for summoning 30 years ago, and started the Animistery 25 years ago, she was dead-set against anyone else learning about summoning and they kept the ministry secret. Now, we go back to the past and there are summoners in the Windurst army. They try to get around it by saying that it was learned from Far-eastern tomes, but it was stated Karaha-Baruha "invented" summoning from the text of the Book of the Gods. This is a pretty huge plot-hole, they should have just not had any summoners in the past.
    So, I'm not sure that's necessarily a plot hole.

    Spoiler: show
    Two explanations come to mind.

    1. The summoning taught in the Near East is the summoning of demons, which is somehow different from the summoning of avatars. Note that Gariri has the Flame Giant, while Kayeel-Payeel calls Ice and Thunder Fiends. Under this model, Near Eastern summoning is different from avatar summoning; while the former is calling a creature that already exists (albeit in another dimension), the latter is taking raw elemental power and giving it a living form.

    2. The summoning taught in the Near East is similar to the summoning that we use in the Middle Lands. The key difference is Karuha-Baruha's binding of his life-force to the creature he summoned, a process made possible with the knowledge in the Book of the Gods.

    According to the Windurst mission plotline, isn't that what allowed him such great control over Fenrir? When he died from the strain of his spell, it took Fenrir along with him; it took the revival of Joker to bring Karuha-Baruha and Fenrir back from the abyss, since Karuha-Baruha had also tied his life force to the Cardian. Also note the parallel to old-school Final Fantasies, specifically 4: when a summon is killed, the summoner perishes.


    This is more idle speculation than anything else, unless someone else can recall evidence to support/counter either of these explanations.

  13. #93
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    Theres also the fact that today's summoners only summon "avatars" in their most literal sense - an avatar, not the actual being itself. What Bahura did was summon the actual being Fenrir, not an aspect of his power. Thats why his Fenrir took out and entire invading Yagudo army and my fenrir gets eaten by more than 3-4 yags.

  14. #94

    Quote Originally Posted by Indalecia View Post
    Theres also the fact that today's summoners only summon "avatars" in their most literal sense - an avatar, not the actual being itself. What Bahura did was summon the actual being Fenrir, not an aspect of his power. Thats why his Fenrir took out and entire invading Yagudo army and my fenrir gets eaten by more than 3-4 yags.


    the term was "absolute summoning" if i remember correctly, basically what bahura did was bind his essence with fenrir's and downright force the physical (or complete) representation of fenrir to do his bidding, which ended up being the defense of windurst during that specific siege. that act killed bahura's physical form and drained most of the power out of the full moon fountain, causing all the troubles today.

  15. #95
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    The scortched and crystalized cliff sides in Quifim,B.Glacier,Battalia Downs and Sauro Champagn are formed from some explosion happening in the sea of shumeyo. Some kind of nuclear/high energy event occured around quifim which melted the cliff sides of the areas listed above and deposited black magicite around the edges and bent trees backwards,encased in crystal. Was this from alteiu being sunk by bahamut or was this from the meltdown of feyin. The latter makes more sense because it destroyed the crystal lines which contain magicite.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riki View Post
    The way i understood that issue is that Baruha only (re)discovered "full summoning" as he called it.
    Spoiler: show
    Magic itself was "invented" by the Zilart and Kuulu. The Zilart found a way to harness the power of the crystals and devided the light by its elements. That seems to be the original form of elemental magic. The Kuulu found out that the power of each living being can also be harnessed. More powerful "animals" would create more powerful magic. So that would be the original form of summoning. Eventually the Zilart adapted that form of magic too, which would explain the imprisoned beings in their structures (like sky gods for example).
    Throughout the storyline it is often mentioned that the Kuulu made a pact with the terrestial avatars. Which may be true for Bahamut. But their structures rather imply that those were build to fully harness the avatars powers (then again, maybe that was part of the pact they made).


    When Baruha tried to bound Fenrir under his will (full summoning) he actually used the Horototo ruins to do so.
    The form of summoning from the tomes is the same form of summoning the players use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seyrr View Post
    So, I'm not sure that's necessarily a plot hole.

    Spoiler: show
    Two explanations come to mind.

    1. The summoning taught in the Near East is the summoning of demons, which is somehow different from the summoning of avatars. Note that Gariri has the Flame Giant, while Kayeel-Payeel calls Ice and Thunder Fiends. Under this model, Near Eastern summoning is different from avatar summoning; while the former is calling a creature that already exists (albeit in another dimension), the latter is taking raw elemental power and giving it a living form.

    2. The summoning taught in the Near East is similar to the summoning that we use in the Middle Lands. The key difference is Karuha-Baruha's binding of his life-force to the creature he summoned, a process made possible with the knowledge in the Book of the Gods.

    According to the Windurst mission plotline, isn't that what allowed him such great control over Fenrir? When he died from the strain of his spell, it took Fenrir along with him; it took the revival of Joker to bring Karuha-Baruha and Fenrir back from the abyss, since Karuha-Baruha had also tied his life force to the Cardian. Also note the parallel to old-school Final Fantasies, specifically 4: when a summon is killed, the summoner perishes.


    This is more idle speculation than anything else, unless someone else can recall evidence to support/counter either of these explanations.
    Here is why it is a plot hole:

    Spoiler: show
    Star Sybil: Summoning, you say?

    Karaha-Baruha: Yes, I would like to name this magic "summoning."

    Karaha-Baruha: The divine texts mention it as the words used when the Star Sibyl was commanding the great beast, Fenrir.

    Karaha-Baruha: At any rate, we are very close. Soon the magic of summoning will be complete.

    Star Sybil: Hmm...

    Karaha-Baruha: Are you uneasy, Your Holiness?

    Star Sybil: Yes... Very.

    Karaha-Baruha: Time is of the essence.
    The lines of battle are at Tahrongi Canyon, and draw close to Sarutabaruta.

    Star Sybil: The attack on Oztroja shall fail, and many flames of life will go out, like the Star Reading long ago.

    Karaha-Baruha: Place your trust in me, Your Holiness. Windurst shall escape its fate of ruin.

    Karaha-Baruha: The Book of the Gods has taught me everything.

    Karaha-Baruha: It told me the meaning of the tower and the fountain. And it has taught me what the beast Fenrir truly is.
    And then:

    Star Sybil: ...Is it possible you have...? Have you found Karaha-Baruha's ring? The one that was lost all those years ago?

    Star Sybil: Well, then. I should explain about this place.

    Star Sybil: This is the Animastery. It is the hidden sixth ministry, and was built almost twenty-five years ago.

    Star Sybil: The one who conducted his research here said this to me thirty years ago:
    "The art of drawing magical power from the well of nature has been taken as far as it can go."

    Star Sybil: He formulated a theory for drawing magical power from living beings, as opposed to nature. This magic would manifest the same amount of power as the creature it was drawn from.

    Star Sybil: ...This new magical theory had the potential to threaten the lives of living beings, and so there were voices of opposition from among the five existing ministries.

    Star Sybil: However, we were in need of power. The power that could be gained from normal creatures was insufficient. We needed the near limitless energy that could be harnessed from a truly awesome entity...

    Star Sybil: Windurst was delivered from obliteration by that very power. But the price we paid for it... I'm sure you are aware of what we lost...

    Star Sybil: Please take the time to read the books here before you leave. If it was Karaha-Baruha's star that led you to this place, then I will not hold this trespass against you.

    Star Sybil: However, citizens of Windurst are forbidden to proceed past the Sealed Portal of the central tower. If you continue past this point, I will reconsider the matter of punishment.

    Star Sybil: I see it now, (Player Name)...
    You have a star to guide you.
    The most important line of that: "Star Sybil: ...This new magical theory had the potential to threaten the lives of living beings, and so there were voices of opposition from among the five existing ministries."

    If there were voices of opposition to Karaha-Baruha's new theory 30 years ago, so much so that the Star Sybil and Karaha-Baruha had to keep the Ainimstary secret for 5 years, why would the Federation later allow Summoners (who at the point in time when we entered the past were not named) to exist in the Windurstian army? This is a fairly large boo-boo on the part of the writers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    The scortched and crystalized cliff sides in Quifim,B.Glacier,Battalia Downs and Sauro Champagn are formed from some explosion happening in the sea of shumeyo. Some kind of nuclear/high energy event occured around quifim which melted the cliff sides of the areas listed above and deposited black magicite around the edges and bent trees backwards,encased in crystal. Was this from alteiu being sunk by bahamut or was this from the meltdown of feyin. The latter makes more sense because it destroyed the crystal lines which contain magicite.
    Didn't these events happen simultaniously?

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus View Post
    Here is why it is a plot hole:

    Spoiler: show
    If there were voices of opposition to Karaha-Baruha's new theory 30 years ago, so much so that the Star Sybil and Karaha-Baruha had to keep the Ainimstary secret for 5 years, why would the Federation later allow Summoners (who at the point in time when we entered the past were not named) to exist in the Windurstian army? This is a fairly large boo-boo on the part of the writers.
    I still don't see that it must be a plot hole, considering the different nature of just summoning avatars or fully summoning something by draining its lifeforce.

    Didn't these events happen simultaniously?
    Spoiler: show
    Yes. If i remember correctly, Bahamut launched the attack on Al'taieu at the same time the Kuulu sabotaged Fei'jin. He partly submerged the city (which can still be seen. Most of Al'taieu is under water. The surrounding area looks like the sealevel has been raised) but apperantly the self defense of the city kicked in and it was transferred to another dimension. The whole area surrounding the Sea of Suumeyo with those cliffs looks like part of the environment has been ripped from the world.

  18. #98
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    not so much the "biggest plot slip up" but

    DRGS! DRG's in the past should have happend since the last dragon was sent of to hide after the war where he was the last drg anyway, then we have some blonde chick turning into a Wyvn and some ginger chick kicking ass! lol

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin'sLaw View Post
    not so much the "biggest plot slip up" but

    DRGS! DRG's in the past should have happend since the last dragon was sent of to hide after the war where he was the last drg anyway, then we have some blonde chick turning into a Wyvn and some ginger chick kicking ass! lol
    The "blonde chick" is Areuhat I presume. She's not a dragoon, she's a full-on wyrm who takes human form. I don't see any inconsistency there.

    As for the "ginger chick", are you referring to Achtelle? Freelancer who shows up with her wyvern, Bravo? Hmmm. She makes comments such as: "I hail from Adoulin Isle. Word has reached there that the dragoons and their wyverns have long since disappeared from these eastern lands." Adoulin Isle is also referenced in this year's Harvest Festival; the exorcists of the Far West come from there.

    Also, please note the Vana'diel Tribune article on Erpalacion, the "Last Dragoon": http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Erpalacion He was not literally the last Dragoon in all the world, but the last San d'Orian one (from the article: "As no successors remained to continue his profession, Erpalacion is also widely referred to as 'The Last Dragoon.' ")

    So, the dragoon lines died out in San d'Oria, but persisted in the lands of the West. Dragoons from the west such as Achtelle may have been partially responsible for the reintroduction of the profession to the Middle Lands. Again, I see no conflict here. I do wonder if Bravo is responsible for the wyvern eggs that intrepid adventurers dig up 20 years after the war, though.

    EDIT: A DRG friend of mine reminds me that the tradition also exists in the Far South; anyone who's played through CoP should know about the Mithran Sin Hunter who has trained as a dragoon. So Erpalacion was the last Dragoon only in that after his disappearance, the ways of the Dragoon were lost to the Middle Lands. It seems they've been imported from foreign lands, though, and are making a resurgence.

  20. #100
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    there not trained as Dragoons and yes the last drg is such since

    spoiler for all up coming drg's

    HE FUCKING KILLS THEM ALL

    when you get your Drachen armet he checks your Wyvern and he
    see's that it is not "evil"
    all wyverns from drg's During the Crystal war turned evil due to all the horror and suffering they saw because of the crystal war

    (The "blonde chick" is Areuhat I presume. She's not a dragoon, she's a full-on wyrm who takes human form. I don't see any inconsistency there)

    i'd like to see her story if it hasn't already been done? (WoTG pisses me off to much to bother with City quests ~.~)

    now doesn't Achtelle come to the Kings tomb because of her grand respect for a King who could make a Wyvn such as Vrtra Guard his forever resting place?

    i think SE just said "Dragoon" for Achtelle and the Sin hunter because they really didn't want to make a new job up since at the time they already had 2 blu npc's for the Nash and Homam's CS's so just calling the Sin hunter a DRG was just simpler

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