Item Search
     
BG-Wiki Search
+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 65 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 16 56 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 1291
  1. #101
    CoP Dynamis
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    266
    BG Level
    4
    FFXIV Character
    Ibi Risasi
    FFXIV Server
    Hyperion
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin'sLaw View Post
    i think SE just said "Dragoon" for Achtelle and the Sin hunter because they really didn't want to make a new job up since at the time they already had 2 blu npc's for the Nash and Homam's CS's so just calling the Sin hunter a DRG was just simpler
    Well, Shikaree Z has a pet wyvern and uses a polearm... if she's not a dragoon, I don't know what else you could call her.

  2. #102
    Cerberus
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    412
    BG Level
    4
    FFXI Server
    Gilgamesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin'sLaw View Post
    there not trained as Dragoons and yes the last drg is such since

    spoiler for all up coming drg's

    HE FUCKING KILLS THEM ALL

    when you get your Drachen armet he checks your Wyvern and he
    see's that it is not "evil"
    all wyverns from drg's During the Crystal war turned evil due to all the horror and suffering they saw because of the crystal war
    Okay, your claims are getting difficult to follow. You say "HE FUCKING KILLS THEM ALL" but at no point say who "HE" is. I've had to resort to discussing with a DRG friend of mine to get some idea of who it is you're referring to (and he is severely tempted to come out of lurkerdom just to respond to you.) Would it kill you to be a little more specific?

    That said: if you're referring to the ghost of the last dragoon, yes, he was testing each wyvern and killing the evil ones. Yes, the wyverns that participated in the Crystal War may have turned evil. So... how does that mean that every wyvern everywhere was killed? You have the wyverns of the dragoons of Adoulin Isle, most of whom did NOT cross overseas (Achtelle is a special case, not the norm.) The wyverns of the Mamool Ja? Tell me, which Crystal War battles did they participate in? You're making some pretty radical claims there. Unless you can show me proof that EVERY WYVERN, WORLDWIDE participated in the Crystal War, I refute your claim.

    now doesn't Achtelle come to the Kings tomb because of her grand respect for a King who could make a Wyvn such as Vrtra Guard his forever resting place?
    I'm confused as to how this means anything either way. At any rate, Vrtra is considered a Wyrm, not a Wyvern, and so far as I can tell there is a difference between the two. But even if Vrtra were a wyvern... so what? What does this have to do with the existence of Dragoons?

    (The "blonde chick" is Areuhat I presume. She's not a dragoon, she's a full-on wyrm who takes human form. I don't see any inconsistency there)

    i'd like to see her story if it hasn't already been done? (WoTG pisses me off to much to bother with City quests ~.~)
    There is indeed a quest detailing the story of Areuhat. Even before that quest came out, there were plenty of clues (the name Areuhat, and the name of the wyrm she turns into, have real-world origins. SE has a tendency to follow the conventions of real-world myths when they choose to adopt the names of characters in them.)

    i think SE just said "Dragoon" for Achtelle and the Sin hunter because they really didn't want to make a new job up since at the time they already had 2 blu npc's for the Nash and Homam's CS's so just calling the Sin hunter a DRG was just simpler
    ... the fuck? What does having BLU NPCs have to do with whether they call an NPC a DRG or not? Either way, why would they have to have made up an entirely new job for Achtelle and Shikaree Z? If you pull anything more out of your ass, you'll be grabbing your lunch from your mouth, man. >.> I'm not seeing anything resembling a cogent argument in your post.

  3. #103
    D. Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4,785
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    (That said: if you're referring to the ghost of the last dragoon, yes, he was testing each wyvern and killing the evil ones. Yes, the wyverns that participated in the Crystal War may have turned evil. So... how does that mean that every wyvern everywhere was killed? You have the wyverns of the dragoons of Adoulin Isle, most of whom did NOT cross overseas (Achtelle is a special case, not the norm.) The wyverns of the Mamool Ja? Tell me, which Crystal War battles did they participate in? You're making some pretty radical claims there. Unless you can show me proof that EVERY WYVERN, WORLDWIDE participated in the Crystal War, I refute your claim.)

    did i technically par-take in the crystal war? no so your basic point is getting shot full of hole's

    Mamool ja wyverns are EVIL so we kill them for the grand Legendary drg

    also your forgetting how old the quest is for the drg af, so dom dom dom, there was no other drg's at the time untill Expantions later there was

  4. #104
    Cerberus
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    412
    BG Level
    4
    FFXI Server
    Gilgamesh

    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin'sLaw View Post
    did i technically par-take in the crystal war? no so your basic point is getting shot full of hole's
    What does your partaking in the Crystal War or not have to do with ANYTHING? My point was that the wyverns that were executed were ones that had participated in the Crystal War, and that there were many wyverns throughout the world that did not participate in the Crystal War. Your response has nothing to do with that.

    Mamool ja wyverns are EVIL so we kill them for the grand Legendary drg
    So, tell me why Mamool Ja wyverns are evil? Yes, the Mamool Ja are against the Empire of Aht Urhgan, but they have damn good reason to be. It's explained pretty clearly if you pay attention to the story scenes. Do you really think "anyone who is against me must be evil"? That kind of moral over-simplification is just sad.

    also your forgetting how old the quest is for the drg af, so dom dom dom, there was no other drg's at the time untill Expantions later there was
    ... not even worth responding to.

    Here, I'll make it simple for you. This is my claim:

    The art of the Dragoon was lost in the Middle Lands due to the extermination of corrupted Wyverns. However, this destruction was confined to the Middle Lands; wyverns and non-corrupted dragoons continued to exist in other areas both before and after the extermination, and were imported back to the Middle Lands over time.

    My claim is supported by evidence in the game. If you can directly refute that statement, you may have a case. Otherwise, don't bother.

    EDIT: Lurker DRG friend also notes: "Erpalacion is not some vengeful spirit out to kill evil dragons/wyverns. He's just a guy who found that what he did in the Elvaan civil war tainted him such that he could no longer be a dragoon. The only reason his ghost appears is because some former Royal Knight lieutenant summoned him to exact vengeance upon San d'Oria. But it turns out he wasn't really angry at anything, and he was happy to see the player's wyvern raised well."

    That's a far cry from your claim that "Erpalacion went around and killed EVERY WYVERN IN THE WORLD".

  5. #105
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    3,458
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    I'm a big fan of Norg and I'm finally doing my SAM AF stuff. There's a set of lines that confuses me, though:

    Jaucribaix: Norg has many ties with the lost nation of Tavnazia, and many people here still think of it as their homeland. The battle fought 20 years ago took the lives of many of our brothers, but the sacrifices that they have made have not been in vain. That day something in Gilgamesh changed, he transformed from a simple soldier to a great leader who would bring us together and create the Norg of today.

    But:

    Kamui, the old guy in Gilgamesh's room says:

    "We made Norg our headquarters about thirty years ago. The Crystal War and the unification of countries. . all this was unthinkable back then."

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but my impression was that Gilgamesh founded Norg after the destruction of Tavnazia or something. He mentions it earlier in the AF2 storyline, how they escaped the destruction, landed on Valkurm, etc.

    So was Norg founded 30 years ago, then Gilgamesh strolled in and revamped it? Is Kamui senile, or what?

  6. #106
    Cerberus
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    412
    BG Level
    4
    FFXI Server
    Gilgamesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayn View Post
    I'm a big fan of Norg and I'm finally doing my SAM AF stuff. There's a set of lines that confuses me, though:

    Jaucribaix: Norg has many ties with the lost nation of Tavnazia, and many people here still think of it as their homeland. The battle fought 20 years ago took the lives of many of our brothers, but the sacrifices that they have made have not been in vain. That day something in Gilgamesh changed, he transformed from a simple soldier to a great leader who would bring us together and create the Norg of today.

    But:

    Kamui, the old guy in Gilgamesh's room says:

    "We made Norg our headquarters about thirty years ago. The Crystal War and the unification of countries. . all this was unthinkable back then."

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but my impression was that Gilgamesh founded Norg after the destruction of Tavnazia or something. He mentions it earlier in the AF2 storyline, how they escaped the destruction, landed on Valkurm, etc.

    So was Norg founded 30 years ago, then Gilgamesh strolled in and revamped it? Is Kamui senile, or what?
    Well, there's a long tradition of Mithran pirates in Elshimo (see the Elshimo Campaign, where the Bastokan Navy fought against the Mithran pirates.) One plausible construction:

    Over 30 years ago - Mithran pirates discover the location, a cave with excellent sea access, well-hidden and easily defended. They set up a base there.

    30 years ago - For some reason or another, the cave is made the pirate headquarters. This may have happened immediately after it was discovered; we don't know enough about the pirates' situation at the time to comment.

    20 years ago - Crystal War. Destruction of Tavnazia. Gilgamesh ends up at Elshimo along with other Tavnazian survivors and is taken in by the Mithran pirates (possibly on friendly terms, possibly as slaves/servants?)

    Over time - Gilgamesh rises through the pirate ranks to become their leader, and in the process transforms Norg into the type of community it is today. Probably mostly in terms of giving them a purpose and a direction - they're not just people who rob ships and get drunk, they're working to rebuild Tavnazia and heal the lingering wounds of the Crystal War (such as the ceremonies that you perform in your AF quest to quiet the spirits for the dead.)

  7. #107
    Nidhogg
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,642
    BG Level
    7
    FFXIV Character
    Seraphus Highwynn
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Diabolos

    Just to clarify:

    Dragoon: A fighter that forms a spiritual bond to a wyvern and fights along side with it.
    Dragon Knights: An elite order of San'dOrian Knights comprised of mainly Dragoons.

    Immortal:Blue Mage
    Seagull Phratie:Corsair
    Dragon Knight: Dragoon
    You dig?

    There's that NPC by the MH in Northern Sandy that says something like: "The Royal Knight and the Temple Knight are the Sword and Shield of our nation respectively, but it used to be that among all was the Dragon Knight, but what ever became of him?"


    Side Note: Cyranuse's goal was to merge with a Dragon making him super powerful. He did so but it was an incomplete merge and he became consumed by the Wyvern's power. A properly trained Dragoon can temporarily attain this state(Spirit Surge) but it's more controlled. It's similar to DBZ in that a Super Saiyjin is the same thing as the giant monkey form except the Super Saiyjin can control the energy. Each level of SSJ bring the user closer and closer to the monkey form(look at SSJ4, furry and grows the tail back). So one could use the analogy that Spirit Surge= SSJ but Cyranuse failed and just became a giant Wyvern

  8. #108
    An exploitable mess of a card game
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    13,254
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Gouka Mekkyaku
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Diabolos

    He should have waited for his 2hr to recharge instead of forcing it.

  9. #109
    Melee Summoner
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    40
    BG Level
    1
    FFXI Server
    Shiva

    Quote Originally Posted by Seyrr View Post
    I'm not so sure about that.

    Spoiler: show
    As a side note, Al'Taieu was almost certainly located at what is now Qufim Island - the Sea of Shu'Meyo, which is where the portal to Al'Taieu is found, seems to cover an area that was practically scooped out of Qufim. Qufim and Al'Taieu have similar landscaping as well, odd coloring aside - the rock is similar, as well as the general appearance of the terrain.
    Spoiler: show
    Not true. Qufim Island was protected by ancient zilart technology (protected by magical barriers id asume. Not entirely protected but in part. The damage to the qufim island area was caused by bahamut and the wyrms in the past. Sea couldnt have possibly been located where qufim island is now. Thats just a misconcieved idea.

  10. #110
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    12,469
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Septimus Atumre
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Quote Originally Posted by Xellith View Post
    Spoiler: show
    Not true. Qufim Island was protected by ancient zilart technology (protected by magical barriers id asume. Not entirely protected but in part. The damage to the qufim island area was caused by bahamut and the wyrms in the past. Sea couldnt have possibly been located where qufim island is now. Thats just a misconcieved idea.
    Spoiler: show
    Not to mention that Al'Taieu is the home of the lost mother crystal, Qufim Island is where the crystal lines converge. It would be pretty lopsided to have all of the other mother crystals far away from Delkfutt's Tower with the Al'Taieu one right by it. Most likely, it was in the waters near Ro'Maeve.

  11. #111

  12. #112
    Cerberus
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    412
    BG Level
    4
    FFXI Server
    Gilgamesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus View Post
    Spoiler: show
    Not to mention that Al'Taieu is the home of the lost mother crystal, Qufim Island is where the crystal lines converge. It would be pretty lopsided to have all of the other mother crystals far away from Delkfutt's Tower with the Al'Taieu one right by it. Most likely, it was in the waters near Ro'Maeve.
    Spoiler: show
    Hmmm. What's your basis for saying that was the location of the Al'Taieu mothercrystal? I can back up my position with original source material. From CoP Mission 7-3:

    Cid: The fifth mothercrystal? Isn't that supposed to be somewhere under Shu'Meyo?
    Cid: Now that you mention it, I just received a report that a strange red light began shooting up from the north sea.
    Also, from CoP Mission 7-5:

    Louverance: What happened...?
    Shikaree Z: This place!
    Jabbos: This is...the...fifth...?
    Ulmia: But why does only this crystal glow with such a strange incandescence...?
    Ulmia: The air here is so chilly. The other crystals exuded such a sense of warmth and peace...
    ???: (This crystal is not a part of Vana'diel.)
    Selh'teus: (This crystal was submerged beneath the city of Al'Taieu ten thousand years ago.)
    Selh'teus: (When the celestial captial was torn from our world, the crystal was also lost.)

  13. #113
    The Once and Future Wamoura
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18,370
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Rocl Montaigne
    FFXIV Server
    Excalibur
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut
    WoW Realm
    Quel'Thalas

    I think the official website said the breed of Black Chocobos was almost wiped out during the Crystal War but they have seen more and more reports recently? It's like until the Chocobo Breeding, they were all yellow.

  14. #114
    The Once and Future Wamoura
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18,370
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Rocl Montaigne
    FFXIV Server
    Excalibur
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut
    WoW Realm
    Quel'Thalas

    Bigger Issue: If Ladybugs and Gnoles are extinct- whats the deal with MMM? I find them all the time in Ghoyu's Reverie.

  15. #115
    New Spam Forum
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    197
    BG Level
    3
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    Bigger Issue: If Ladybugs and Gnoles are extinct- whats the deal with MMM? I find them all the time in Ghoyu's Reverie.
    They are not extinct, they went underground. It's like in "Journey to the Center of the Earth"!

  16. #116
    Salvage Bans
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    969
    BG Level
    5
    FFXI Server
    Cerberus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    There's that NPC by the MH in Northern Sandy that says something like: "The Royal Knight and the Temple Knight are the Sword and Shield of our nation respectively, but it used to be that among all was the Dragon Knight, but what ever became of him?"
    That sounds more like Dragon Knight was a specific Knight's title rather then it being a class of knights themselves. The San D'orian Army only had two main branches, Royal and Temple knights, each branch serving a different purpose and being further divided amongst themselves.

    Side Note: Cyranuse's goal was to merge with a Dragon making him super powerful. He did so but it was an incomplete merge and he became consumed by the Wyvern's power. A properly trained Dragoon can temporarily attain this state(Spirit Surge) but it's more controlled. It's similar to DBZ in that a Super Saiyjin is the same thing as the giant monkey form except the Super Saiyjin can control the energy. Each level of SSJ bring the user closer and closer to the monkey form(look at SSJ4, furry and grows the tail back). So one could use the analogy that Spirit Surge= SSJ but Cyranuse failed and just became a giant Wyvern
    Off topic reply is off topic:

    Spoiler: show
    In DBZ, the "giant monkey state" was actually controllable if trained right. Vegetta retained all of his intelligence when he changed into his giant monkey to beat down Goku. However SSJ4 is a completely different transformation of SS1-3. To reach SSJ4, Goku had to turn into a Golden Monkey, which could only be done using the light of the "Full Earth", at which point he was able to further transform into SSJ4. It's completely and totally unrelated to his first three SSJ forms. Besides, Cyranuse's transformation was more akin to a failed Fusion then a SSJ transformation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    Bigger Issue: If Ladybugs and Gnoles are extinct- whats the deal with MMM? I find them all the time in Ghoyu's Reverie.
    Seeing as Ghoyu's Reverie isn't accessible to players any other way then through the Moblins, the whole "they went underground!" bit is actually feasible. The War devastated the natural wildlife of the middlelands of the time, but races thought to be extinct could have easily moved to safer lands. Though the Gnoles are most likely just hiding to hide.

  17. #117
    The Once and Future Wamoura
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18,370
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Rocl Montaigne
    FFXIV Server
    Excalibur
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut
    WoW Realm
    Quel'Thalas

    That makes even less sense than dinosaurs ):

    Ladybugs draw their power from the sun! They are Birdman! How can they live underground

  18. #118
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    11,020
    BG Level
    9

    weren't the Gnoles brought here by the Shadow Lord for the war?

    It was the Shadow Lord himself that first unleashed these fearsome wolfmen upon the continent of Quon. Though gnoles are able to speak the common tongue, albeit in broken form, they have no unique customs or culture of their own
    If they were smart enough to speak our language they were probably smart enough to leave back to wherever they originated from after the Shadow Lord was no longer in power.

  19. #119
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    12,469
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Septimus Atumre
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Quote Originally Posted by Seyrr View Post
    Spoiler: show
    Hmmm. What's your basis for saying that was the location of the Al'Taieu mothercrystal? I can back up my position with original source material. From CoP Mission 7-3:



    Also, from CoP Mission 7-5:


    Spoiler: show
    The Sea of Shu'Meyo is a rather large place. It encompasses the coasts of Batilla Downs and Sauromugue Champaign to the south and Beaucedine Glacier and Li'Telor to the north. Since Delkfutt's Tower was built in a place to converge the crystal lines, it would make sense to put it in a more centralized location. Had Al'Taieu been on Qufim Island in the place that looks scooped out, it would have made more sense to build the tower on the pennisula of Batilla Down or Rolanberry Fields to try to balance out the distances. Had Al'Taieu been closer to Ro'Meave, Qufim Island would be more equidistant to the Mother Crystals. (As the center would have been in the sea.)

    Not to mention that it would make sense for the capital to be closer to the entrance to the Tu'Lia in the hall of the gods than a power station

  20. #120
    Cerberus
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    412
    BG Level
    4
    FFXI Server
    Gilgamesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus View Post
    Spoiler: show
    The Sea of Shu'Meyo is a rather large place. It encompasses the coasts of Batilla Downs and Sauromugue Champaign to the south and Beaucedine Glacier and Li'Telor to the north. Since Delkfutt's Tower was built in a place to converge the crystal lines, it would make sense to put it in a more centralized location. Had Al'Taieu been on Qufim Island in the place that looks scooped out, it would have made more sense to build the tower on the pennisula of Batilla Down or Rolanberry Fields to try to balance out the distances. Had Al'Taieu been closer to Ro'Meave, Qufim Island would be more equidistant to the Mother Crystals. (As the center would have been in the sea.)

    Not to mention that it would make sense for the capital to be closer to the entrance to the Tu'Lia in the hall of the gods than a power station
    All good points, but there's an underlying assumption that I'm not sure has ever actually been justified:

    Spoiler: show
    The assumption, and what seems to be the crux of your argument, is that the location MUST be equidistant to ALL the arks. You use the phrase "balance out the distances" - unless there's scenes on Crystal Line theory and construction I missed, I don't see anything to suggest that this is necessary.

    If it's not necessary, then locating Al'Taieu at Qufim Island (per the earlier script segments, the crystal sits beneath the city) gives you a spot that's equidistant to three of the crags AND on top of the fourth one. Now that's a savings in construction costs.

    Having Al'Taieu be a section of Qufim Island that was scooped out also explains Qu'fim's unusual shape and the similar geology (take a look at the exposed rock faces in both areas). It also explains why Qufim Island is the section of Vana'diel visible from the Empyreal Paradox.

    I understand your point, I just think it's unsupported within the source material. And having Al'Taieu at Qufim is consistent with/explains enough other things that it seems far more likely.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 65 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 16 56 ... LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
  • Insert NSFW Tag
  • Insert Spoiler Tag