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  1. #141
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araelus View Post
    It has been unofficially retconned to them awakening 30 years prior to "present day", but taking a few years before appearing near Jeuno, or at least it was clarified in two other places:

    The Vana'diel Tribune II Issue No. 16. states:
    "In the year 855, Kam'lanaut and his brother were picked up by a fishing boat and taken to Jeuno." Recall that the multinational expedition took place in C.E. 852. The War starts in 862. Current day is ~882.

    To certify this, during Rise of the Zilart, the following exchange
    Spoiler: show
    LION
    Isn’t that the floating island you call the Gate of the Gods? That was destroyed when the ancient capital of the Zilart was submerged!

    KAM’LANAUT
    Just as we Zilart slept for thousands of years, Tu’Lia has remained in slumber. Miles above the surface of Vana’diel, it bides its time until the day of awakening. And on this day, eternal paradise will be within my grasp.

    LION
    Slept? You mean to tell me that you’ve been knocked out here in Delkfutt’s tower for ten thousand years?

    KAM’LANAUT
    You are fairly intuitive for a mere Hume. Thirty years ago, when Raogrimm came in contact with the crystal in the cursed Northlands, some of its energy flowed to this tower. It was that burst of power that awoke us, giving us the opportunity to continue our quest for Paradise.

    ZEID
    Long ago, your people paid the price for what you did. What’s to be gained by chasing after lost dreams?

    ...

    ALDO
    I’ve had enough! You’ve spent the last thirty years deceiving everyone in Jeuno. You could care less about the people of this world! You’re just using the power here in an attempt to take over Vana’diel!

    KAM’LANAUT
    Hm-hm-hm...
    Hah-hah-hah! I can no longer fool you. Behold! I am the will of the crystal!
    has both Kam'lanaut and Aldo claiming the thirty-year mark.

    I suppose the error in the quest dialogue can be filed with the cases where Ulrich is called Volker's grandfather rather than his uncle during Bastok cutscenes. There are some problems with the game's script that were never fixed.
    The Ducal Hospitality quest was a CoP quest. My thought is that whoever did the quest dialog was unfamiliar with the history of the Archduke since it was very clearly stated beforehand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfish View Post
    Judging by the architecture, building materials (Stone instead of Ceramite), and lack of technology, Uggalepih probably post dates the zilart collapse. Given their penchant for avatar worship (or what passes for reverence in Vana'diel), it was probably built as a refuge from any post-collapse remnants of the Zilart empire, given its distance from any Zilart structures and relative closeness to Ifrit's and Leviathan's Protocrystals.
    It was made before the Meltdown, the reason it is so different is that the Horutoto Ruins, the Temple of Uggalepih, and Pso'Xja are all Kuluu buildings.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    Also I wonder why Sagheera needs AF2-1 to make AF2+1. Does she use spare parts from the -1 to combine with the NQ to make +1 relic or something?
    I used to wonder about this, but I think I figured it out. First of all, yes it has something to do with needing more of the same parts.

    That said, Sagheera doesn't SPECIFICALLY ask for a -1 version. Sagheera actually just tells you to bring a second piece of the same armor, and that it's okay if it is in bad shape. In terms of lore, if there was some way of getting 2x of the same NQ armor, you could hand them both to Sagheera to get your HQ.

    However, since the NQ is of course Rare/Ex, you cannot obtain 2 of them. The -1 item is a convenient loophole that allows you to obtain a second copy of the same item.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gergall View Post
    However, since the NQ is of course Rare/Ex, you cannot obtain 2 of them. The -1 item is a convenient loophole that allows you to obtain a second copy of the same item.
    Or it could just be like with the Abjuration pieces where Cursed -1 turns into Abjuration +1.

  4. #144
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    Look at it from another perspective. -1 items are either;
    • Items with a cursed placed on them thus unable to be used (Zilard Abjurations)
    • Items used by the Beastmen, usable for Vana'Diel races but which stats are pretty much useless (probably due to the fact that they're not adapted to non-Beastmen?) (Januwiyah/Tariqah/Macuahuitl)
    • Items that are heavily damaged and thus cannot be worn (AF2-1)
    The first type requires an Abjuration to get rid of the curse, but the other two require crafting, be it from PCs (Beastmen items) or NPCs (AF2-1).
    Sagheera probably uses parts of the -1 to improve certain aspects of the NQ, thus making it HQ? That's the best I could come up with.

  5. #145
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    I see the -1 pieces as a superior, but currently unusable versions.

  6. #146
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    Do people still read this thread? No idea.. But I'll ask anyway..

    So I'm having to redo all of the Windurstian missions, and two things really confused me:

    1. The whole Karaha-Baruha + Fenrir + Joker coming back to life, thing. I understand that Karaha brought Joker to life, so when Karaha died summoning Fenrir, Joker died with him. Then the Ace Cardians bring Joker back to life, which in turn brings Karaha back to life, but where does Fenrir come into play in all of this? Didn't Fenrir just leave the Full Moon Fountain after the summoning in Sarutabaruta? And is Joker still the same Joker created by Karaha? Because it sounds as if Joker is actually Fenrir.. But they're also saying the Bearer of Darkness is half Karaha and half Fenrir.. Ugh, this never seemed so confusing the first time I did this <.>;

    2. They also talk a lot about the complete summoning that Karaha performed in Sarutabaruta against the Yagudo, but they make it sound a lot like Fenrir was used against his will.. Which doesn't really make sense, according to the WotG mission's explanation. Fenrir quite clearly states that their pact shall be honored, as if there was some sort of agreement in place, which I always just understood to be that Fenrir would offer his help, but that the one who summoned him would have to sacrifice his life in the process. It just seems like present missions suggest it was a forceful summoning, while past missions suggest it was an agreement between the two.

    halp plz D:

  7. #147

    The way that the summoning always came over to me was that when you kill the prime you make a deal with the avatar to use a small part of thier power, and a slightly bigger bit when Astral Flowing.

    Karaha-Baruha was the first summoner... I think he gave his life in exchange for Fenrir Primes help, not the just a small bit of his power~

    However, at the behest of the Star Sibyl, he sequestered himself within an underground laboratory and delved into the mysteries of summoning magic. After disappearing from the public eye, the name of Karaha-Baruha was eventually forgotten.

    In the year of 862, as the city of Windurst stood on the brink of destruction, Karaha-Baruha reappeared to smite the invading beastman army with the forbidden art of summoning. With his own lifeforce spent in unleashing the towering energy that defeated the howling beastmen, the great genius of Karaha-Baruha was lost forever.
    Obviously none of the Yagudo's were skilled RDM/NINs or NIN/THFs!

  8. #148
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    Karaha-Baruha wasn't the first summoner, summoning was discovered by the Kuluu. Karaha simply performed the first(known) complete summoning, in that he actually summoned Fenrir, as apposed to simply summoning an avatar of him.

  9. #149

    Ah. Mybad.

  10. #150
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    Answer Regarding Tu'Lia vs. Al'Taieu.
    Beware the Wall-o'Text:

    Spoiler: show
    The assumption is that the events of CoP open immediately upon the completion of RoZ. This is more or less confirmed with Esha'ntarl's rise to power (and Nag'molada's attempts to rise within Armathrwn Society) the after the disappearance of the Zilart Princes.

    It goes kinda like this:

    - Qufim is the original location of the Celestial Capital, Al'Taieu. This is supported by the proximity of Delkfutt's Tower, as well as the seemingly desolate areas of Qufim, Sauromugue and Batallia which show evidence of unnatural damage to the landscapes of each area. Its entirely likely that Al'Taieu itself was a landlocked mass before the Meltdown, leaving only Qufim in its wake.

    - After the successful completion of the Chamber of Eventide, which cleanses a single soul of its Emptiness, Eald'narche touches the Mothercrystal hidden beneath the Celestial Capital. In coming into contact with the crystal, Eald'narche's Emptiness is totally washed away by the light of the crystal, and it gives the Zilart Princes an idea to return the world to its previous state of "Paradise".

    - Tu'Lia is consequently built as a purification machine designed to cleanse the world of Emptiness in one go, using the light of the Mothercrystals - thus, opening the way to Paradise, which is why Tu'Lia is referred to as the "Gate of the Gods". The Arks that house the Mothercrystals and the Crystal Lines that connect them all were constructed at this time, with Delkfutt's Tower being the Control Center to direct the crystal energy.

    - Tu'Lia itself was constructed OVER the Celestial Capital of Al'Taieu, but why? My own educated guess leads me to believe because of the presence of the incarnation of the Twilight God within the Celestial Capital, and that the incarnation was forming within the body of the King of the Zilart who is still unidentified at this time. It makes sense that the Zilart would want their capital cleared of the curse of Emptiness first, and follow up with the rest of the world second - it also makes sense that the incarnation would be drawn to the Emptiness contained within the Chamber of Eventide. Furthermore, it makes sense to use Delkfutt's Tower as a control center for the reason of its approximate location to Al'Taieu - it could also be designed to be a lookout tower to watch the results of Tu'Lia firing upon the Celestial Capital. This further suggests that Al'Taieu's former physical location was at today's Qufim Island.

    - The Kuluu were adamantly against the construction of Tu'Lia, because it meant the literal destruction of their people, their way of life and their independent culture that they were beginning to form since the Zilart saw fit to exile them from the Celestial Capital (most likely by teleportation into the chamber where Diabolos resides today, the Shrouded Maw). They consequently made a Pact with the Terrestrial Avatars, who also saw their own doom with the completion and firing of Tu'Lia. We also know some Kuluu left Pso'Xja to create homes at today's Sarutabaruta and Elshimo regions.

    - It's also important to note the role of the Dawnmaidens in all of this, particularly that of Yve'noile. The Dawnmaidens resided within the Hall of the Gods in Ro'Maeve, where the Zilart could easily travel from their Capital to worship both the Dawn Goddess and the Twilight God. Yve'noile herself, as we can probably all suspect and agree upon, is something of Altana's will or voice upon Vana'diel, a being even more "enlightened" than the Zilart. She was also against the Zilart Princes' plan, citing that the Emptiness was the will of the Gods. The Zilart Princes' continued their mission without her blessing. My guess is that after the Zilart Princes awaken in today's modern era, they modify the ruins of Ro'Maeve to be a functioning part of the Crystal Line to allow access to Tu'Lia, now that Yve'noile is no longer around to interfere.

    So the big question is:
    What actually happened during the Meltdown?

    - Firstly, we know that Tu'Lia machine was attempted to be engaged by the Zilart Princes. Al'Taieu itself was consequently attacked on two fronts. In the skies above, Bahamut faced the defense system of the Celestial Capital. He fights valiantly, and prevails over the Zilart defenses. With this distraction in place, Selh'teus and Phoenix access Al'Taieu through the teleporter at Pso'Xja, likely using the energies of the remaining Terrestrial Avatars to force the teleporter within The Shrouded Maw to work in reverse (the machines behind the Avatar Gates). Selh'teus infiltrates the Chamber of Eventide, attempts to absorb the Emptiness of the Chamber into himself and dies. The Twilight God, sensing the death of the Emptiness contained near him, rages, and attacks Bahamut. Bahamut loses the resulting battle and falls into the Sea of Shu'Meyu.

    - The Kuluu, agreeing that the Zilart must be stopped, arrange an attack on Fei'Yin, the closest Ark in proximity to their own greatest nation. Whatever defenses the Zilart placed there, if any, are overcome and Fei'Yin is destroyed. The resulting disruption of the flow of energy from the Vazhl Crystal creates an energy backlash within the Crystal Line.

    - Meanwhile, Selh'teus is brought back to life by Phoenix, who presumably had to give her own life to revive him, but also thereby bestowing upon him the powers of Phoenix herself. Selh'teus essentially becomes the "next" Phoenix. However, this power alone is not enough to counteract the will of the Twilight God. Yve'noile then steps in to do Altana's will, binding the incarnation of Promathia into the royal audience chamber. She then sacrifices herself by entering the Chamber of Eventide to keep the remaining Emptiness stored there in check. Altana grants Yve'noile a blessing for her sacrifice, and the Celestial Capital is torn away from its physical plane.

    - The backlash of energy within the Crystal Line has disastrous effects, and wipes out a good number of Zilart and Kuluu alike, while the light of the crystal shines upon lesser beings, bringing about the origins of the Five Races. This event is referred to as the Meltdown by Grav'iton.

    - Centuries upon centuries pass, and we come to the event of the Multinational Expedition to the Northlands by Raogrimm and his party. Cornelia dies during the expedition, and the others return home.

    - Raogrimm roams the Northlands in madness and comes into contact with the Deity of Darkness - there is speculation that this is the Celestial Avatar, Odin. He is granted power to sate his rage (sound familiar?), and hunts down and murders the surviving members of the Multinational Expedition. With the help of the demon army bestowed upon him, he constructs Castle Zvahl and becomes the Shadow Lord.

    - Eald'narche and his brother awaken from their slumber due to a disruption in the energy of the Crystal Line caused by the presence of the Shadow Lord. They travel from the sea of Shu'meyu to Jeuno, a small fishing village, and using their knowledge of synthesis through the use of elemental crystals, they turn it into a sprawling metropolis.

    - The Crystal War begins, is fought out, and ends. However, the distortions of the Shadow Lord's presence remain within the Crystal line.

    - Age of Adventurers begins in the wake of the war. Kam'lanaut hires adventurers to study and fetch the crystallized Emptiness in the crystal lines, which he calls Magicite.

    - The Shadow Lord is revived by some Dark Kindred followers, and is again defeated. Raogrimm comes to his senses, but the Zilart Princes show up and make sure the job is done properly this time. The power disruption fades when the brothers take the head of the Shadow Lord to reactivate Delkfutt's Tower.

    - The events of RoZ happen here.
    Eald'narche disposes of his brother and reactivates Tu'Lia. He ascends into the heavens to use the machine manually, and is defeated. However, he still attempts to fire Tu'Lia, and thanks to the influence of Lion, the firing is again disrupted.

    - The events of CoP start here.
    The second disruption of Tu'Lia leads to the awakening of Bahamut, who flees to Monarch Linn to gather together his army of wyrms to wage war. Selh'teus also uses this disruption to travel along the Crystal Line and form an avatar of himself within the physical plane (identified as his former boy-like form). His avatar begins its objective to siphon light from the Mothercrystals and place it into a living vessel to bring to Al'Taieu and revive the light of the fifth Mothercrystal to prevent Al'Taieu's fall back into the physical plane. His plan is to use his ability as the new Phoenix to revive the vessel after he replenishes the light of the Al'Taieu crystal.

    - The events of Storms of Fate, Shadows of the Departed and Apocalypse Nigh all occur after these events.


    Fuck that was long-winded.
    But hopefully it answers some questions.

  11. #151
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    Thx a lot for this post !!!

    ps - and actually you were right about Odin and Dark Divinity, it has been unveiled in WoTG.

  12. #152
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    random "necro bump"

    do we believe that the Empyreal Paradox is based on the moon? or at least somewhere in between or more so now due to Abyssea claiming the Emptiness had reached the moon? (random dealings in the ls with people not to sure about the story)

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin'sLaw View Post
    random "necro bump"

    do we believe that the Empyreal Paradox is based on the moon? or at least somewhere in between or more so now due to Abyssea claiming the Emptiness had reached the moon? (random dealings in the ls with people not to sure about the story)
    I was under the assumption it was based in another dimension between everything? perhaps not.. idk lol

  14. #154
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    If I remember correctly in COP it was Sea which submerged into ocean near qufim. In Abyssea however Sea ascended to the moon. Since the entrance to the Empereal paradox is in Sea it would technically be at either location depending on which story you're following. I think the Paradox is simply a battlefield x amount of miles above Sea, which would explain why it's above Vanadiel (or more precise above qufim) in the COP story and above the moon in the Abyssea story.

    Take this however you want, not like I really paid attention to the Abyssea story and been ages since I did COP.

  15. #155
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    is it clear to believe from when SE first brought out missions (nations) and when WoTG came out they changed the stories slightly or maybe its because "we" changed the past?

  16. #156
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    But we didn't change the past because the past has already happened - TIME PARADOX.

  17. #157
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    but really, we just set the past in the right direction, because had we not gone, things woulda been different, and present vana'diel would not exist for us to be able to travel to the past from

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neisan View Post
    But we didn't change the past because the past has already happened - TIME PARADOX.
    that was my point it seems SE forgot there own story or translators desired to change it

  19. #159
    >The Implying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appie View Post
    I think the Paradox is simply a battlefield x amount of miles above Sea, which would explain why it's above Vanadiel (or more precise above qufim) in the COP story and above the moon in the Abyssea story.
    I'm pretty sure this is the "most correct" explanation.

  20. #160
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    I always understood that Al'Taieu was part of the island that is current qufim island. At some point in the past it was warped/shifted/teleported/etc to inside the mothercrystal that was kept there. This explains the sheer circular cliffs on the side of qufim.

    The Empyreal Paradox on the other hand is the point where you are trying to look at the mothercrystal which you are currently inside of. Where its viewpoint for looking outward exists to me is just hand-waving and of no importance. However it clearly shows that in the abyssea universe, Al'Taieu is sitting on the moon surface.
    My assumption was that Shinryu moved it there to exert a larger control over the moon (and therefore planet smashing action)


    The x miles above sea for the battlefield works for me as an explanation.

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