Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[Araius]

Well, I just hit 10 SCH, and lets put it this way...Strategems are pretty hot, but right now they're broken. In short, you can go into negative charges if you use macros for your strategems, down to -2. In long-winded form...here's how SE described Strategems:

When a scholar gains access to Light Arts and Dark Arts at level 10, he or she will also acquire new abilities called “Stratagems.” The abilities available within Stratagems will correspond to the type of Arts the scholar currently has activated. No abilities will be displayed if neither Light Arts nor Dark Arts has been selected.

Stratagems do not have a recast time. However, the use of these abilities is restricted by the number of “charges” available, with each ability consuming one charge per use.

*When using the “/recast” text command, it is necessary to nominate a specific Stratagem to which the scholar currently has access, such as “/recast Celerity”. This command will display the amount of time remaining until a new charge will be generated, as well as the current number of charges available.

The number of charges available depends on the level of the scholar.
When set to the main job, a scholar will have one charge available at level 10, two at level 40, and the maximum of three at level 70. When set to the support job, a scholar will always have a maximum of one charge available, regardless of level.
Charges will be regained at four-minute intervals, meaning twelve minutes are required to regain three charges.

That's all well and good, but there's a pretty big bug right now. Think of Strategems like Corsair rolls or Blood Pacts - you go into you JA menu, select Strategems, and then within that there's a menu for all your available Strategems (only the ones available corresponding to which Dark/Light Arts you have active are shown in the menu). On the right hand side then, it shows the number of charges you have, and the timer for when your next charge becomes available.

So for example, let's say I use Dark Arts, and then use Parsimony. I gain the Parsimony buff (reduces the MP cost of my next black magic spell by 50%), lose the 1 charge I had, and the timer starts counting down from 4:00. Now here's the bug. Obviously, I shouldn't be able to use Parsimony (or any Strategems for that matter) for another 4 minutes, since I don't have any charges left. If I open up the menu, click Strategems, and try to click Parsimony, it gives the "You must wait longer to perform that action" error, which is obviously correct. BUT, if I use my macro - in this case /ja Parsimony <me> - Parsimony goes off! I get the Parsimony buff, and it works just like it did before, as if I had another charge, even though I didn't. In the menu, if I check out the charges on Parsimony now, it shows up as -1, and restarts the timer. Soon as I cast another black magic spell, I can do it again! As long as I use my macro, my charge count will go to -2, and I get Parsimony again. The buck stops here though, even using the macro I can't go beyond -2 charges. Not that I'm complaining, hehe.

So basically, right now a level 10 Scholar gets 3 Strategems charges as long as they use macros. Obviously I have no idea if that means a level 40 SCH gets 4 charges, and a level 70 gets 5 charges, but it's probably safe to assume this will be fixed before anyone hits 40 SCH, or at the very least before 70 SCH.

One last little wrinkle to this: the same goes for if you have SCH subbed. I just tested this as 75RDM/10SCH. Used Light Arts, hit Penury (white magic version of Parsimony), cast Protect IV on myself for the low low cost of 33 MP. Immediately after, I hit Penury again, and sure enough, another 33 MP Prot IV. And yet again, bringing me to -2 charges. Incredibly hot and I wish I had time to do some serious damage with this (though as a RDM I can't really do much...a BLM/SCH right now though...omg) but alas, tis time for dreaming of turkey. Hopefully when I get back Friday this won't be fixed yet and I'll play some more with it, hehe.

lolSE

[kearnsy]

Scholar sub is broken.

BLM75/SCH10

Base skills are
Divine 28
Healing 28
Enhancing 200
Enfeebling 253 - merits
Elemental 292 - merits
Dark 269

After Dark Arts
Divine 28
Healing
Enhancing 200
Enfeebling 279 - merits
Elemental 292 - merits
Dark 269

After Light Arts
Dvine 246
Healing 246
Enhancing 246
Enfeebling 253
Elemental 292
Dark 269


As WHM75/SCH10

Base skills
Divine 269
Healing 276
Enhancing 230
Enfeebling 241 - merits
Elemental 44 - merits
Dark 28

After Light Arts
Divine 269
Healing 276
Enhancing 256
Enfeebling 241 - merits
Elemental 44 - merits
Dark 28

After Dark Arts
Divine 269
Healing 276
Enhancing 230
Enfeebling 272
Elemental 262
Dark 246



I think something is broken.

[Araius]

Ooh ooh, I want to play

RDM75/SCH10

Base:
Divine 115 (uncapped)
Healing 220
Enhancing 256
Enfeebling 280 - merits
Elemental 230
Dark 200

w/ Dark Arts:
Divine 115 (uncapped)
Healing 220
Enhancing 256
Enfeebling 280 - merits
Elemental 256
Dark 246

w/ Light Arts:
Divine 246 (uncapped ORLY)
Healing 256
Enhancing 256
Enfeebling 280 - merits
Elemental 230
Dark 200

[Akiyama]

Wow. That's sick.

[Gilanth]

actually you can only get just enough to do the sch quest with, a single stack of it, you get each peice by trading a stack of rolanberrys to a hume in CN, standing next to the I.M., so 12 stacks of 12 rolanberrys for 12 vellums, i think you have to have sch quest active to do this

I got this off of Alla so i can't confirm but it would be useful if someone could would save us getting ripped off.

[eva00r]

Can somebody try BLM/SCH10 or WHM/SCH10 then tell us the magic skills that you're missing ?

[Ish]

Actually I got to SCH 11 tonight as well and tested the subjob with a pal of mine, Souji. He flipped over to BLM75/SCH11 and tested the Light Art / Dark Art as well, and sure enough his Healing Divine and Enhancing all went to 246.

So since I am leveling Scholar on a mule of mine, I decided to test out further since Ishu's skills are horrendously underleveled (having only a lv36 WHM as it's highest job). So testing this out further, as WHM36/SCH11...

Base was..
Divine 1
Healing 6
Enfeebling 41
Enhancing 16
Dark 0
Elemental 2

Dark Arts increased Elemental, Dark and Enhancing all to 99, while Light increased it's corresponding skills to lv99. Either the sub is broken, or this is the reason Scholar did not get certain spells. Not trying to be an SE apologist but, God in heaven I hope this stays the way it is.

As is,

Dark and Light Arts raise the current skill levels if they are underleveled, to the minimum skill level for a job's respective level, *as though Scholar were the main job*. So if you are a 36WHM with horrible skills, Light arts will raise your skills to the minimum skill level of a 36 WHM (i.e.99). It will also raise your Elemental/Dark/Enfeebling Magic should you use Dark Arts to 99, as though scholar were the main job.

From this we can obviously infer that the Arts will only raise you to the level of the of the Scholar's Skills and not beyond unless of course Merits are involved. Now that I think about it, merits will really throw this out of whack as well causing some insane totals... I'm not sure what this is meant to do as a sub specifically, but I certainly can think of a couple interesting applications!

[Toth]

It could be a glitch like the automaton glitch after the ToAU release. Basically, if you subbed PUP, it would show the automaton's lvl 75 stats. Of course, send a maton into battle and you'd have quickly seen that it in fact still had the same level as your PUP sub. I suppose time will tell if this is a glitch or not XD

[Damane]

It could be a glitch like the automaton glitch after the ToAU release. Basically, if you subbed PUP, it would show the automaton's lvl 75 stats. Of course, send a maton into battle and you'd have quickly seen that it in fact still had the same level as your PUP sub. I suppose time will tell if this is a glitch or not XD

or it could open some insane new possibilitys for mages as /scho.
like my whm being able to decently drain and aspir mobs as /scho with 256 dark skill
or blu/sch actually enhancing alot of spells that are effected by dark skill healing skills etc
or rdm/sch enhancing all their ele and dark base skill with this. if it is intended it opens up a whole new dimension on mage and effectivness of particular mages overall. smn/sch being able to enfeeb mobs?

EDIT: would make also sense to me why scholar has a limited Spell line. with this it would indeed be an insane Sub for some mages, and open up some new doors for them.
A SMN could hastega the pt with avatars and enfeeb the mobs just by being /sch.
A WHM can land drain and aspir on a decent rates.
A BLU/SCH can make better use now of a backline job, by enfeebling mobs wiht paray slow etc and buffing their healing magic spells wiht light arts, while also buffing their aspir rate with dark arts.
the possiblitys are wide open with this as sub if it was intended in this way.

[eva00r]

A SMN could hastega the pt with avatars and enfeeb the mobs just by being /sch.
A BLU/SCH can make better use now of a backline job, by enfeebling mobs wiht paray slow etc and buffing their healing magic spells wiht light arts, while also buffing their aspir rate with dark arts.
the possiblitys are wide open with this as sub if it was intended in this way.

Fails. SCH don't have access to any enfeebing spell or status curing spell.

[Toth]

I didn't write that lol

[Damane]

Fails. SCH don't have access to any enfeebing spell or status curing spell.

no silence para anything? orz SCH is so sub dependend

[kuronosan]

I think it's broken, but hey... if that's how it works then scholar might just be that sub.

[Sendra]

Can anyone confirm/deny extra spells available when a certain grimore is up?

Reiterating.

[izembo]

at current levels no spells are gained. have to wait and see when we have some higher ones for others, but its looking like a no for now.

[Araius]

Nothing at 10, though whoever posted that spell list from before was wrong on at least a couple We don't get Deodorize at 10, and I have a feeling we won't get Sneak or Invis either

[Tonko]

Dumane: Dark skill does not effect BLU Aspir spells, but would let them use the normal Aspir spell @ full potency. Likewise, it wouldn't enhance the accuracy of Fillamented Hold and the like.

Healing skill is the only non Blue skill that effects our spells.

[The Blackrose]

actually you can only get just enough to do the sch quest with, a single stack of it, you get each peice by trading a stack of rolanberrys to a hume in CN, standing next to the I.M., so 12 stacks of 12 rolanberrys for 12 vellums, i think you have to have sch quest active to do this

I got this off of Alla so i can't confirm but it would be useful if someone could would save us getting ripped off.

I've heard the same as well.

However, considering it's almost 24 hours post-expansion unlock, prices should be falling. The confirmation of this rumor would be the nail in the coffin on vellum gouging.

[Wizerd]

at current levels no spells are gained. have to wait and see when we have some higher ones for others, but its looking like a no for now.

Except it's on the scrolls if you check in-game. <_< I think SCH Lv.10 was a misprint on Deodorize though, I bet you get it at 15.

[Otaku]

Scholars have Light Arts and Dark Arts as their abilities. (They also have Strategems but those are blank until you activate a grimoire).

When you activate Light Arts, you receive a bonus to Divine, Healing and Enhancing skills.

(Dark Elemental and Enfeeb for Dark Arts)

I believe magic accuracy is enhanced when casting the appropriate spells under a grimoire.

Here's the kicker: The job works on a points system. You CAN get up to 2 negative points by manually typing in or macroing the ability instead of trying to select it from the menu. However, this increases the recast time (4 minutes per point) to compensate. So at -2, you have a 12 minute cooldown before you can activate Strategems again.

So.. you have conserve MP once every 4 minutes... OR Divine Seal/Elemental Seal every 4 minutes... OR making some nearly useless spell AoE once every 4 minutes.. OR get a fast cast effect once every 4 minutes. Imagine SMN, before the Rage separation, but with a 4 minute blood pact recast instead of 1 minute. That is SCH.

The job is useful as a sub for the stat boosts from the grimoires more than the actual effects of them IMO. This may change as the job is tweaked.

I did some tests, and grimoires absolutely do not effect magical BLU spells either. (Even light/dark element BLU spells)

SCH is the new PUP. I haven't given up on the job yet, I'm just taking a break from it until it gets adjusted.. maybe a larger spell set?

Also, how's it gonna fare in meripo? 4 minute recast on special traits when you're killing mobs every 30-50 seconds just doesn't cut it. No haste, no natural status cures. No buffs whatsoever except for weather change.. What role will it play?..

Well, we don't have magic nukers in merit, and even under the Dark Arts grimoire, SCH nukes wont be much more potent than RDM nukes (even at lvl 10 I started to feel the difference keenly between SCH and BLM nukes). They can't refresh or haste.. They can't boost attack defense accuracy evasion etc... So they can main heal in a group as a last resort if no RDM or WHM or SMN are looking.. and then it's a tossup between SCH or PUP with a white mage frame. Even a white mage frame puppet can cast correctly more than once every 4 minutes.

I had high hopes for this job. I still do. I think it'll get salvaged from a terrible, loathsome job into a mediocre, "MEH" job, like PUP.

This is all my opinion BTW. Feel free to level the job yourself and come to your own conclusions. And there's still room for the job to be tweaked. But for right now, I give it a preliminary PHAIL.

*EDIT*
Forgot to say, I think the job has FANTASTIC possibilities in end-game situations, where they can buff other mages. I just wouldn't want to level with one past the 30's or so when the jobs start distinguishing themselves. If I leveled SCH, I think when ever (if ever?) I got an invite on it. I'd apologize to the party as soon as I got there and say "I'll try to make up for a WHM ok?"