BRD & BLM stats: how to make sense of it

[valruu]

first i wanna ask about BRD. which is better, CHR or wind+singing skill and why? i mean for both merit and HNM/event purposes. for merit i normally use opo crown, and event HNM i use wahlara turban. tbh i hate the crowns look, but most of my merit pts i need that boost on chr to land lullaby. now will wind skill add the same accuracy CHR would? also does that +4 magic accuracy ring from toau do anything for brd?

ok now on BLM. i always have asked BLM's in my LS, and simply tried to figure it out myself, but just dont get the forumla. ive heard that for every 2 INT= 1MAB. is that true? just wanna know for future referance.

thnx for any advice u guys can throw down my way

[Tricen]

Get a moderate amount of CHR and a great amount of mostly wind skill and some singing skill for debuffs. That's about all you need it for. Then carry around an MP setup or something.

[Suiram]

Both CHR and Skill will add accuracy; as for when CHR+X is better than Skill+Y, that's an open question, as is how they compare to Macc+Z (which does help accuracy for bard songs).

Also whoever told you that 2INT = 1MAB (in the sense of 2STR = 1Att) is, let's say, misled, although it is true that on many mobs with the typical BLM gear and merits casting typical spells, adding 2 INT will give you roughly the same increase in damage as adding 1 MAB.

[Blabj]

Typically I've found 1MAB = Approximately 2.5~ INT on Tier 4 and AM2 spells, however the number changes to maybe around 1.5~ on Tier 3.

Work on the principal that without enough INT your spells will get resisted regardless, and add MAB and Elemental Magic from there. I'd say 100 INT is a good ground for casting nukes on most things, including puddings and wamoura princes. You may wish to have a bit more for some events such as dynamis and the likes as generally mobs there are a bit more resistant because they have higher INT figures.

[Rena]

For bard... generally you'll want as much skill as you can get, then fill up the other slots with CHR, possibly MP. Opo-opo crown is no use past 73, get a demon helm instead. Walahara turban is no good either unless you don't need to debuff and just want an MP build.

INT and MAB can't really be compared point by point. INT will add a certain amount of damage to your spells, whereas MAB is a percentage increase in damage, so +3 MAB for example would be +3% damage. Keep in mind that you have 32 MAB from job traits at 75, so +3 MAB would make it a total of +35 MAB. As for which is better, it'll vary depending on enemy stats, though what Blabj said works as a general guidline.

[SephYuyX]

INT still sort of works on a % base, you wont see the same amount of damage increase of 10INT on a T4 vs a T3 nuke.

[Nyuneko]

INT is what increases your magic attack by calculating the difference of your INT with your target's INT, however there is a damage cap to this INT magic attack bonus, once it hits the cap, more INT won't increase your damage further. INT also reduces the chance of getting resist on your spells, although the effect is nowhere as effective as Elemental Skill+.

There is also a tier bonus on nukes, tier I-II = 1x, tier III = 1.5x, tier IV and Ancient magic = 2x, for aga, up to Blizzaga II is 1x, while everything after Thundaga II is 1.5x. However the tier bonus will drop a tier if your INT is lower than the target's, meaning a tier IV would be 1.5x, and tier III would be 1x.

On the other hand, MAB+ increases your magic attack by a %(as said), regardless of your INT difference, MAB+ will always add that much magic attack % to your nuke.

In short, no, INT =/= 2MAB, as said. INT increases your magic attack by points(has cap), and MAB+ increases your magic attack by %(no cap). Meaning... you will want more INT than MAB+ when you are against something with high INT, against something with low INT, adding more MAB+ might be more beneficial, since you will most likely be hitting the INT difference cap, but it doesn't mean that taking off all your INT gears for MAB+ will do you any good: in another word, add as much INT as you can until you hit the cap, and then add MAB+ for the remainder.

[Seditedi]

For bard... generally you'll want as much skill as you can get, then fill up the other slots with CHR, possibly MP. Opo-opo crown is no use past 73, get a demon helm instead. Walahara turban is no good either unless you don't need to debuff and just want an MP build.

INT and MAB can't really be compared point by point. INT will add a certain amount of damage to your spells, whereas MAB is a percentage increase in damage, so +3 MAB for example would be +3% damage. Keep in mind that you have 32 MAB from job traits at 75, so +3 MAB would make it a total of +35 MAB. As for which is better, it'll vary depending on enemy stats, though what Blabj said works as a general guidline.

MAB+3 isn't straight up 3% dmg >.>

[Bakthi]

For bard... generally you'll want as much skill as you can get, then fill up the other slots with CHR, possibly MP. Opo-opo crown is no use past 73, get a demon helm instead. Walahara turban is no good either unless you don't need to debuff and just want an MP build.

There's nothing wrong with W.turban at all, provided you can land stuff. I sometimes use turban, haidate, and swift belt just to lower recasts, like Finale in certain situations, or Lullaby in Einherjar. It's nice in exp as well, although I usually just go with the turban there. Same reason I use Rostrum Pumps and a Loquacious Earring; I don't need any more CHR or skill to land things in the majority of sitations. I'd rather have the other stats (mostly the Fast Cast), and I'm free to make that decision because the songs land anyway.

Of course, the rest of my gear is really good, and I have merits. Obviously, actually landing stuff is a priority, so you want to be able to do that before you think about other stats. I try to make sure my total CHR is above 100 (I think it's 109 at the moment), and the rest is +skill where I can get it, with some exceptions (like the turban, although I'd replace that with AF2/Marduk's for certain things if I could). 100 is pretty much an arbitrary number, however (just like "half your level in +CHR gear", which is the other one I see repeated often). I've never seen anyone try to run tests for tiers of CHR or anything.

[deced]

Regards to BRD: CHR does add accuracy, and a substantial amount sometimes. But the key difference between it and skill for bard is that while CHR adds accuracy in a smooth curve, it never does anything above and beyond this. Skill, on the other hand, can reach a point where it breaks past certain resistances. Kind of like how you can have barfira up and slap on a Suzaku Sune-Ate during a high end NM's Firaga III and you'll still often eat full damage. But if you go the extra mile and put on a head, neck and belt piece, you'll start taking considerably less damage or whatever consistently. Skill for bard acts much the same in that you can reach a new plateau of effectiveness that cannot be done with straight CHR. Of course, that doesn't mean you should utterly ignore CHR, just as no melee would stack only STR or attack and mix in none of the other. And though on a 1 by 1 comparison, Skill always wins the day on BRD, I'd still rather wear Errant for 10 CHR than Minstrel Coat for 3 skill.

Walahara turban is no good either unless you don't need to debuff and just want an MP build.

Walahra Turban is probably one of the best head pieces in the game for BRD. Unless you're two boxing a bard or you're one of those people who uses 3 macros then afks for another 3-7 minutes at HNMs, this thing will see TONs of use. Stuff in Dynamis and Einherjar really just don't resist lullaby at all, so there's no real reason you'd ever need to be using a Roundlet on those. You might as well just put on the turban and lower recasts as much as possible. 15 sec Erase timer is also ass, and shaving off as many seconds as you can by stacking what little haste gear available to bard is a godsend sometimes. Especially considering that oftentimes, a bard is the only Eraser in an entire party. The thing might be ugly as sin, but it's also too good not to be using on bard.

[drwaffles]

MAB +X is not a direct percentage increase to your nuke's damage, it has diminishing returns and this means that if you have to choose between two items (one with INT and one with MAB) that have similar damage values if you use the basic 1 MAB = 2 INT model then the item with INT will probably win out. It's for this reason that I said people who drooled over Shadow/Valkyrie's Trews when Einherjar was released are probably going to be rather disappointed.

[Hakamaru]

MAB+3 isn't straight up 3% dmg >.>

3 MAB is only a 3% increase if you're starting from a base MAB of 1.0. Given that you get MAB traits, 3 MAB will always be less than a 3% increase on a 75 BLM. If someone has as much MAB as possible, 3 MAB is going to be much less than a 3% damage boost.

If you're familiar with melee damage equations, BLM nuking parameters aren't much different from pDIF and Base Damage. Both INT and MAB grant diminishing returns. You want to boost the one that you are more deficient in for a given situation.

If a mob has high INT and you have a lot of MAB pieces, you might get more damage swapping a few pieces over to INT. It all depends on how much of each you have available to you.

[Suiram]

I know what I wrote in my first response couldn't be any more vague, but as you can see from some of the subsequent replies the answer to the INT vs. MAB thing is about as situational as shit gets because it not only matters how much MAB you already have, how much INT you already have, and how much INT the thing you're nuking has, but also which spell you're casting. For instance take Shadow Trews (NQ) vs. Jet Seraweels. On a pudding, which I believe has 90 INT, if you have 110 INT and 66 total MAB before legs (which is more or less what a well-geared and meritted BLM would have), Jet Seraweels wins slightly on Blizzard 4, is exactly equal to Trews on Thunder 4, and loses to Trews on AM2. Really unless you are a savant who can remember the INT of every mob and calculate your own base damage on the fly or seriously anal retentive, you're probably better off just going with whichever one has the better secondary stats for the situation, like MP or enmity or skill/macc.

On the other other hand, there are some common items that always wins. For instance AF2 hands/legs, static earring are always better than current alternatives in the situations they activate, respectively, Morrigan's Robe is always better than NQ and HQ weskit except for when the army of level 0 mobs are attacking Windurst, etc.

[Kerberoz]

Jet Seraweels.

-.-

[Suiram]

They made for a better example than Mahatma Slops lol. I might actually consider them just because it's a reasonable tradeoff of MP for INT but I've had Mahatma Slops for years and continue to operate under the premise that Silver Seas will eventually put out anyway. And in any case even if I did use Jet Seraweels at least I have whm sub

[wood]

More information about the ToAU ring with magic accuracy? Like... uhm... what does it affect and how much is 1 magic accuracy compared to 1 wind skill and 1 CHR?

The new wind skill ring... would you changed 2 (3 if HQ) wind skill with 4 CHR (angel's)? This question is moastly when you going /NIN.

[valruu]

i appreciate all the responses guys, although a bit overwhelming at times, its very informative. to go in a bit more detailed about MAB/INT argument ill write my Nuking gear setup and give reasonings why i personally go for it

Head: Wizards peta. (NQ atm)
neck: Ugg pend. (full timed)
hands: z.mitts (NQ)
back:rainbow cape(yea, i know..)
sub:bugard+1
ammo.tathlum
earrings: moldy+magnetic
rings:snow+tamas
legs:jet serawheels
feet:yigit crackows
waist:sorc. belt
body:igqira weskit
-note-i have all HQ staves , and have fully merited BLM. full thunder potency merits, 4 in ice and 1 in wind. full merit burst 2, 2 in freeze, and 1 tornado(if that means anything)

i know ill get crap cause of the NQ cape and af1 hat, but ive been unlucky on temenos item, and it just doesnt seem worth it to spend almot 400-500k for 1 extra INT. ok well for earrings i choose magnetic mainly for the MP it gives, and im next for novio so im just waiting it out(i always try to maintain my pool at above 920, im at 944 atm w/ the current setup as Hume) jet serawheels also cause of the added mp and again to me it seems like a waste to pay so much for just one extra INT. and well the rest seems rather basic, im still not sure if sorc. belt is full timed by most BLM when nuking, so if there are better alternatives id like to know. also how is sorc. ring over snow ring? or is that only for soloing? also someone mentioned af2hands and legs. are those full timed once obtained? or only in certain situations?

Ok well as BRD currently i have subpar gear, though BRD doesnt need MUCH.
Head:normally opo opo
neck:bird whistle(due to low gil situation)
earrings:loq+musical
sub:bugard+1
back:jesters cape+1
waist:gleemans belt
hands:shair(havent seen ONE brd af+1 drop in all my limbus runs)
legs:shair
feet:shair(i have rostrum, but cause of the 4 chr i choose to go w/ shair)
rings:angel ringsx2
body:i macro yigit for pulling and buff songs, and macro in yigit for lullaby

id also like to know if those new wind skill rings would be any better than angels rings, and...where the hell do u get em. w/ opo opo i normally break over 100chr, and i normally prefer going /whm, but for birds it always seems best to /nin which i hate since it lessens your base chr. which peices of af2 and/or af+1 would be best/fulltimed?

again thx for all the info.

[Kerberoz]

Head: Wizards peta. (NQ atm)
neck: Ugg pend. (full timed)
hands: z.mitts (NQ)
back:rainbow cape(yea, i know..)
sub:bugard+1
ammo.tathlum
earrings: moldy+magnetic
rings:snow+tamas
legs:jet serawheels
feet:yigit crackows
waist:sorc. belt
body:igqira weskit
-note-i have all HQ staves , and have fully merited BLM. full thunder potency merits, 4 in ice and 1 in wind. full merit burst 2, 2 in freeze, and 1 tornado(if that means anything)

i know ill get crap cause of the NQ cape and af1 hat, but ive been unlucky on temenos item, and it just doesnt seem worth it to spend almot 400-500k for 1 extra INT. ok well for earrings i choose magnetic mainly for the MP it gives, and im next for novio so im just waiting it out(i always try to maintain my pool at above 920, im at 944 atm w/ the current setup as Hume) jet serawheels also cause of the added mp and again to me it seems like a waste to pay so much for just one extra INT. and well the rest seems rather basic, im still not sure if sorc. belt is full timed by most BLM when nuking, so if there are better alternatives id like to know. also how is sorc. ring over snow ring? or is that only for soloing? also someone mentioned af2hands and legs. are those full timed once obtained? or only in certain situations?

Demon Helm +1 is pretty cheap, even NQ is better than AF head and it's like 10k. Don't waste limbus items on the head until you have body and hands upgraded. Jet seraweels are utter crap. Last I checked they're around the same price as mahatma, no? Sorc belt is full-time, yes, except for when obis are active. Make sure you have enough MND gear for stoneskin before trashing the penitent's, though. Need 114 total. Magnetic is crap but you already covered that.

Sorc ring is full-time gear and should never come off when nuking, ever. That's if you can activate it though, which I doubt you can. Work on that before anything else. Zenith, tonberry club, astral aspis, serket/vivian, etc.

Ugga pendant is not full-time gear. Get an ele torque and/or prudence torque for when the pendant isn't active. AF2 is situational, of course.

Ditch the wind potency. Change a Freeze merit into Flood.

[valruu]

ok so:full time demon helm+1, sorc. ring(if i can activate, which yea youre right atm i cant which is why i havent bought it yet), mahatma over serawheels?(i figured since youre taru u have no MP issues thus i understand mahatma being better, ill give it serious consideration though), +1 body and hands over head?(why is that?), ele torque i got so ill do that, where would i put the wind potency merit in? ice? or water?

[Suiram]

ok so:full time demon helm+1, sorc. ring(if i can activate, which yea youre right atm i cant which is why i havent bought it yet), mahatma over serawheels?(i figured since youre taru u have no MP issues thus i understand mahatma being better, ill give it serious consideration though), +1 body and hands over head?(why is that?), ele torque i got so ill do that, where would i put the wind potency merit in? ice? or water?

Kerberoz treats every point of INT like a life or death matter, and that's why a lot of the advice he gave above is questionable. AF1+1 hat is fine, and superior in a lot of situations, same goes for seraweels (though less so since the -enmity on them is equal) and pentinent's rope. As others have pointed out in other threads, if you are soloing and can kill a mob in the same number of spells as you would with the extra 4 INT, you're better served by the extra 75MP and conserve MP+5 that AF1+1, jet, and magnetic provides. For HNMs it's a similar thing, you're going to put out more damage over the course of a fight without pulling hate if you trade off a couple points of INT for a significant amount of enmity-, as with af1+1 vs demon+1, penitents vs af2, etc.

I would agree that you should drop wind and put it in ice, unless you find yourself casting wind spells a considerable amount (and I don't see why you would), and what you do with your AM2 is totally based on what you do, just have at least 1 upgrade in burst and freeze but 3/3 on those two or spreading it out on others are both perfectly fine paths to upgrade. Sorc ring is always going to be more damage than Snow ring, and both are damage-only items (aside from the unnoticeable acc increase from 5 INT) so you'll want to go with sorc ring when you can.