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Thread: FFXI Thinning Out?     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #201
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    People are stuck in '05 when it comes to EXP camps, and if Aht Urhgan didnt ram going there for exp down your throat with: EXP bonus, camps right outside the staging point and easy mobs people would have taken forever to use those exp locations as well.

    I think after ToAU, people dont care beyond grinding to 50 then grinding to 75. Its a pity all the post 50 camps in WotG wont be used simply because there is 0 exp bonus on sigil.

    Ladybugs are weak, Hippogyphs are weak and most of the WoG camps are free of dungeon repop timesinks but simply because SE set a standard so high in the minds of the playerbase w/AU it will all go for naught. (Bar the LS statics)

  2. #202
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    The more time you spend time in character development, (levelling, gear acquisition) the more you find out that there is a roof to the game where you can't really proceed further without doing the same redundant thing over and over again.
    I feel like that on my drg (first and greatest passion), and that's why I've been doing nothing but pld/dnc and dnc/nin. I could shoot for Ares, but then what? 35 mil later I'm barely stronger than I am now, and for to do what? I can already shred just about anything I fight (I don't HNM, which probably excludes me from many things, but I'm not a cheater, nor do I want the drama of joining a botting LS, which is 95% of Hades' LSes).

    The fun for me was setting goals, and then reaching them. Hitting 30, and then getting drg. Then getting AF1 weapon, then full AF, then 60, then Assault jerkin, then 75. After that, it was full AF2, then full merits, then full homam, and somewhere smattered in there was the lust to have the first Gugnir on the server, but then Mezraq came out and shattered that desire, because its just too fucking close to the damage that Gugnir puts out.

    There's literally nothing for me to aspire for: I mastered drg in ballista, obliterate in xp/merits to the point where I can't even /war unless I'm with the most elite section of my LS, and even then, drg merits have been capped since January of 06, before the ToAU release. The next set of merit upgrades were capped a week later.

    You go through this in WoW as well, and when you top out, you make a new job, but you can ALSO PVP -- you can also fight competitively against others, testing not just your gear, but your skill -- something that absolutely has no cap to it in terms of greatness -- against others. You can fight in regularly-sponsored tournaments, gain titles and new gear -- hell, pretty much the entire game can be a battleground if you choose it to be. I have dozens of gold chevrons, and hundreds of others, but what the fuck are they good for? Half of the server doesn't even know what a chevron is, and why should they? They are COMPLETELY USELESS -- not even good enough for bragging rights.

    Initially, I didn't want FFXI to be like that, because I had so much else to do, but when you're at the top, all that's left is to help others reach the top or reach the top with a new job: whatever happened to the top increasing so you can climb even higher? Hell, a rng/nin now is essentially the same as a rng/nin when RotZ came out, minus a bit of damage, plus a bit of haste, minus a lot of tp, and plus a few merits. The gear that excelled back then STILL excels now -- you basically don't need anything that came out after that era to destroy, and that's just sad.

    I love this game more than most, and I love the community and the storyline. I love how this is one of the only games I can have interactive and friendly conversations with JP players in a neutral setting. I used to love the light PVP aspect, but then they let it rot -- they introduced no incentives to keep playing, and alienated a large portion of their NA and JP player-base that religiously wanted to play, but got sick of doing the same thing with no real change. They held one large tournament, gave a terrible, worthless item for the winners and participants, and then left the system to rot completely.

    Not everyone wants to gear-whore through sitting and waiting, or walking around in a pit praying for some monster to pop. This game has so much potential left in it if SE can just wake up and realize that they don't always get things right -- that their company is not flawless, and everything they put out isn't gold-plated. Shit gets rusty, and sometimes shit needs to be re-painted.

    Lastly, and for the record, I've never played WoW, but have heard good and bad from it from current and former players -- I plan to play both FFXI and WoW, probably with a 4-month plan on WoW to completely max out a character, and then re-asses my opinion then. I'm mostly just holding out for the next-gen MMO to arrive: something with more intuition than 3 attack animations per weapon and an auto-battle system that doesn't put me to sleep.

  3. #203
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    Only thing i like about WoW is the streamlined quest system, PvP system and concept that the devs give a shit about what the playerbase has to say.

    Granted i played WoW a week i didnt see much of the downsides to it but how could PvP get boring? If ballista/brenner wasnt abandoned it could have been a really fun event where rewards could have been handed out~

  4. #204
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    Granted i played WoW a week i didnt see much of the downsides to it but how could PvP get boring? If ballista/brenner wasnt abandoned it could have been a really fun event where rewards could have been handed out~
    And that's a huge reason why WoW's retention-rate is so high. The storyline isn't all that from what I hear, outside of the wow geeks that exist in every major genre (same as star wars geeks and trekkies), getting around pre-mount is a bitch on PVP servers (have a posse or pack some serious heat), and WoW has a tendancy to make all previous gear obsolete with each major update (but at least they're not introducing constant sets of new gear that are worse than even AF), but the PVP -- it'll never get old because they keep updating it.

    You can't get bored with something that constantly expands its concepts, engages the players, and REWARDS the players handsomely. If its not some new title, its a new item, or a new rank that bestows bonuses and prestige. Being good at ballista just means you've found a good way to not get killed and score a lot in a 3v3 match, because that's about as much as you'll see on any server outside of Fenrir these days. Hades used to have a large and vibrant ballista corps -- now its long-dead. The players are still around, but why play? There's just no incentive anymore. Blu started the death of it and SE's inattention to updating anything that isn't samurai put the final gunshot in its respective cranium.

  5. #205
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    SE never really pushed Ballista when it first launched, they tried to 'streamline' it some but if the people like it why not continue making it better?

    This isnt a true PvP game, but if thats what the playerbase wants in a sense theres no reason to not persue it. Some will argue that PvP encourages segregation of job classes but thats present at endgame anyways. Make a team PvP game like Brenner, make it vibrant and exciting (tons of zones in this game that see little to no traffic, use those zones) throw people in those zones and have them battle for items. Endgame items? not quite. Moderately desirable items? yes.

    Thats just one idea, i always thought SE would have fleshed out ISNMs with a rendition of KS99-esque battles using 10k imperial standing or something along the lines of closed circle battles with the AU beastkings and their respective 'pet' (gulool/hydra, medusa/khimaira, cerb/gurfy)

    Outdating armor in FFXI would be hard, because you'd make something insanely broken and the game isnt really at the point where more broken gear would help unless they revamped monsters as a whole. Monsters would have to be really hard to justify getting anything over what is already in the game.

  6. #206
    blax n gunz
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronin sparthos
    This isnt a true PvP game, but if thats what the playerbase wants in a sense theres no reason to not persue it. Some will argue that PvP encourages segregation of job classes but thats present at endgame anyways. Make a team PvP game like Brenner, make it vibrant and exciting (tons of zones in this game that see little to no traffic, use those zones) throw people in those zones and have them battle for items. Endgame items? not quite. Moderately desirable items? yes.
    If SE had pursued the 60-cap/no-SJ Ballista cross-server tournaments on a schedule, rather than once-ever and never again, the PvP scene might have actually matured. As it stands SE has all but abandoned PvP, which saddens me as it was one of the last enjoyable parts of FFXI before I quit.

  7. #207
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    There are many ways not to break the game in terms of gear. +hp/mp gear while healing breaks nothing -- introduce a set with +25 or more. Experiment with items that attack multiple times with high base damage (REALLY high -- I'm talking 650+). Redo how vit and other stats work, then introduce more of them on items Place more hp and mp on certain items. Offer more -%casting interruption on items. Put more + to ability items, like shield block, and the bashes. Introduce a third set of AF with better graphics (in league with the corazza re-skins in terms of detail) with greatly enhanced stats and including set-bonuses for partial and full sets.

    People make it seem as if the gear in this game is so retarded, when there's only a few pieces like that. Ridill and 3kings gear, and a few scattered pieces of sky gear are what set the bar, but its been years since then. You can't expect people to keep playing additional content when the rewards continue to pale in comparison to what was introduced over 4 years ago.

    WoW doesn't seem to have a problem keeping people around even after they revolutionize the definition of "elite" gear in each update. There's nothing wrong with borrowing from a system that works -- companies do it all the time, and with great results. FFXI is old-fashioned and rustic, and the aged playerbase, system, and reviews that come out for it all reflect that.

  8. #208

    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    The more time you spend time in character development, (levelling, gear acquisition) the more you find out that there is a roof to the game where you can't really proceed further without doing the same redundant thing over and over again. The game has a lot of good hardcore players. SE should do their part and make engaging content for them and not make everything for the masses. If the content for hardcore people stagnate, there is nothing the casual player can aspire to attain. Both the hardcore player and casual players will gradually leave and this game will slowly die.
    This sums up everything inside my heart in one paragraph.

  9. #209
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    WoW doesn't seem to have a problem keeping people around even after they revolutionize the definition of "elite" gear in each update. There's nothing wrong with borrowing from a system that works -- companies do it all the time, and with great results. FFXI is old-fashioned and rustic, and the aged playerbase, system, and reviews that come out for it all reflect that
    My main gripe is that without stronger mobs, whats the point of better gear? You can already almost 2shot a VT+ Colibri with WS and thats on most jobs with piercing traits. Imps are so weak that making better gear would make exp rediculously easy (it already borders on it) and anything that people remotely exp on would be easier pickings than even now.

    Higher tier gear means they would have to change current monster HP values or make them way more dangerous than currently.

  10. #210
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronin sparthos
    My main gripe is that without stronger mobs, whats the point of better gear?
    The lack of stronger mobs in FFXI is not an unsolvable problem, so don't blame people wanting better gear. Stronger mobs with desirable loot pools are the missing link in the chain called 'progression' in FFXI that when properly followed will end the string of 'we did kings, dynamis, limbus and ouryu this month' updates on the bg front pages

    Why's FFXI thinning out? Ask that level 75 Ridill over there. Or that level 75 Gjallarhorn. Or that level 75 Aegis.

  11. #211
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    Ugh yeah, all LS frontpages are the same "Dynamis Kings Ouryu Baha2 Salvage Limbus", it's sad but there's not much more. I tend to skip LS frontpages and go straight to the forums.

  12. #212
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    Never said it wasnt, but unless SE does something about the massive ease of merits in AU versus anywhere else, alot of backdoor problems that were overseen by the devs are going to exist. Higher tier gear without the HNMs/challenges to justify them is as much a waste as new HNMs with crappy pools. (Hydra'd)

    Its a 2step problem and unless SE is going to drastically change how all HNMs behave and create armor that blows RoZ armor out of the water nothing will change. Kinda stupid they gravitated towards the 3-5+day pop versus the daily 21-24hr pop for most HNMs but the longer repop delay isnt justified in any form or shape in ToAU/CoP.

    I guess the day that RotZ falls or is reinvented will be the day things can actually change.....

    Ugh yeah, all LS frontpages are the same "Dynamis Kings Ouryu Baha2 Salvage Limbus", it's sad but there's not much more. I tend to skip LS frontpages and go straight to the forums.
    Hell, id rate Waking the Beast as harder than Ouryu, and Limbus is only hard when its Proto-Ultima or Basement Apollyon. x.x Bahamut 2.0 isnt hard now everyone zergrushes and Einherjar will continue to be a lump of rotting failure. (Great idea on paper, somewhere in transition someone forgot the droprates, the fact everyone needs 9 feathers to fight odin and certain combos of monsters leads to instant failure)

  13. #213

    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    Update of merits and more good gear, aswell as more people getting relics made everything current highly easy. I remember when people were wiping to Vrtra and Tiamat for weeks, but when Khimaira came out there was a Hauteclaire on Hades from first spawn.

    They need to add new things that will take people a while to figure out or beat. Yes there is AV, but considering there is no hints even on how to beat him just from experimenting, hes just a failed mob.

    Salvage was actually a good thing they added till it was highly nerfed, it was very hard before and now its accessible to anyone. The only thing that varies is how good your group is at farming it.

  14. #214

    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    I think it's thinning out. WotG helped me quit. I just got sick of trying to keep up with all the updates and the good players. I used to be a top player, but after they introduced all the new stuff I really fell behind and I stopped playing as much. Which is funny because it seems like the opposite is the reason people are quitting lol. I just fell behind.

    I just got sick of playing catch-up, and the cache of good players was always diminishing, and I couldn't stand nubs, so I moved on.

  15. #215

    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    They keep adding new content, the problem is that the content doesn't encompass everything people want to see. So therefore theres always going to be a large portion of people who will be dissatisfied with what their doing. They can't add new hard Nms when no one can figure out how to kill AV after the "fix". Its a lose-lose situation unless people are willing to just accept what the game is for the time being.

  16. #216
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by *Shinzon*
    They keep adding new content, the problem is that the content doesn't encompass everything people want to see. So therefore theres always going to be a large portion of people who will be dissatisfied with what their doing. They can't add new hard Nms when no one can figure out how to kill AV after the "fix". Its a lose-lose situation unless people are willing to just accept what the game is for the time being.
    There is a big gap between HNMs and AV though; which is the content that people want filled.

  17. #217
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    The more time you spend time in character development, (levelling, gear acquisition) the more you find out that there is a roof to the game where you can't really proceed further without doing the same redundant thing over and over again. The game has a lot of good hardcore players. SE should do their part and make engaging content for them and not make everything for the masses. If the content for hardcore people stagnate, there is nothing the casual player can aspire to attain. Both the hardcore player and casual players will gradually leave and this game will slowly die.
    Correct. Relic Weapons. Stupid idea.

  18. #218

    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    I think the only thing that could refresh my interest for FF and go crazy with the game again is rising the lv cap, with all new subjobs aptions and all new gear to get at lv 80, but since this not gonna heapen, I will see how much I can play geting gear that I need to run a parser and do a 1 month research just to know its not realy better than my old gear lolz.

  19. #219
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    There's a couple of problems with the "tiering" concept. The big one being, everyone doesn't go for HNM gear simply so they can go after bigger and better HNMs. There are a lot of reasons people go for endgame gear and that really isn't at the top of everyone's list.

    Some people get better gear/level up so they can explore safer. Others simply want the gear set because it looks nice (high level gear sets seem to be the most attractive/interesting visually). There's an epeen/ego factor. The main reason I always focused on getting good gera was so I could kickass in XP. Enhancing your gear for PVP, etc. etc. etc...

    That's why I like the idea of making the strategies more difficult to pull off instead of making the mobs physically higher level to adjust to merits/gear. And they've done that to a certain degree. I'd just like to see them do it to a greater one.

    Making stuff higher level to adjust to gear/merits with better attributes and stronger attacks isn't going to raise the skill required in events. I mean lets face it, most of the time in an HNM fight the only people who're even required to be skilled at *all* right now, are the mages and the tanks. Sometimes not even the mages. Melees just hit stuff, watch hate, and are smarter than to stand in the wrong place while they do so.

    Hydra could've been amazing for requiring better strategies; keeping various heads dead or alive, etc. Instead it simply became "Get as many crits as possible, brute force."

    Sadly nothing all that new occured with the ToAU HNMs. Beyond lowering Khimaira's Wings and breaking Hydra's heads (which was based on crit like earlier mobs in the ToAU expansion had their weapons broken based on crit) there were no new mechanics really. Bring it down, it gets hard before it dies, stun the super powerful TP move. Nothing revolutionary.



    On an unrelated note, one of the ways they could breathe new life into old content is to introduce a "titles" system. Have what title you're using have a minor effect on your stats, similar to the way that Blue Magic set spells have a minor effect (and comparable in potency). It would just introduce yet another way to tweak your character, even if it was minor at best.

    Right now there's no purpose whatsoever to titles really. It's considered bad form to even check people in many circles. If they changed it to where titles gave small effects, there'd be a total shift in the desirability of some content.

    For example, lets say they gave the Hydra Headhunter title partial Poison Immunity (enough that you'd resist it from mobs within 10 levels higher than you or lower, so it wouldn't effect HNMs). Suddenly there'd be a reason to kill him. They could also add various effects to titles which're rewarded by quests which no one ever does. Miraculously we'd see a rebirth in an entire section of the game which is currently wasted on everyone but storyline junkies.

  20. #220
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    Re: FFXI Thinning Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirosue
    I think the only thing that could refresh my interest for FF and go crazy with the game again is rising the lv cap, with all new subjobs aptions and all new gear to get at lv 80, but since this not gonna heapen, I will see how much I can play geting gear that I need to run a parser and do a 1 month research just to know its not realy better than my old gear lolz.
    Wow, the only non-masochist here

    I thought people loved spending 120,000xp just to fully unlock one stupid tier2 spell then go back to do it again ad nauseum for all the other stuff they need/want to merit.

    That's what's keeping ToAU xp zones the way they are, the millions of xp required to cap just one job merit-wise.

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