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  1. #41
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    PLD:
    - SE has done a great job with PLD, but there is still one glaring error. Invincible should reduce damage from all attacks - physical, ranged and magical. It should also prevent all incoming status effects and spells. For example, an invincible Paladin should not be able to be slowed, paralyzed, stunned, silenced or even dispelled while their Two Hour is active.
    This would work out perfectly, because SE wasn't sure Dynamis was tedious enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by spooky
    Quote Originally Posted by Rena
    Quote Originally Posted by spooky
    So far RDM have ways of getting MP, so does WHM and BRD, soon to be SNM too from the looks of it. That does just leave BLM and I guess SCH, but that's a whole other thread anyway.
    What? BLM gets aspir, conserve MP, and clear mind V, WHM gets... clear mind IV.
    I take it you've not herd of devotion then?
    EDIT: Aspir, only works if what you fight has MP or doesn't totaly resist it anyway. Conserve MP, lol. clear mind V lmfao.
    I'd kill for Clear Mind V and native Conserve MP. Devotion is a piddly amount of MP for how long its cooldown is, and you can't even use it on yourself.

  2. #42
    >The Implying
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by Priran
    PLD:
    - SE has done a great job with PLD, but there is still one glaring error. Invincible should reduce damage from all attacks - physical, ranged and magical. It should also prevent all incoming status effects and spells. For example, an invincible Paladin should not be able to be slowed, paralyzed, stunned, silenced or even dispelled while their Two Hour is active.
    This would work out perfectly, because SE wasn't sure Dynamis was tedious enough.
    Dynamis is tedious for you? Really?

    On another note, I want to see the 5 new jobs added to Dynamis mobs as well.
    And I also want to see Dynamis DRGs using Spirit Surge.

    Could use more of a challenge tbh.

  3. #43

    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    All 2 hours have to have a downside, invinicible's is that magic attacks still work.

    - Azure Lore should open a BLU's entire spellbook for its duration.
    This makes too much sense.

  4. #44
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Why is there a need for a downside? Then again AV could use Invincible instead of Benediction.

  5. #45

    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Mighty Strikes-Hits aren't guaranteed.
    Hundred Fists-Hits aren't guaranteed
    Perfect Dodge-Suceptible Ranged Attacks
    Benediction- Generates enormously high emnity
    Manafont-Allows infinite MP usage but be wary of emnity.Long spell casts use up MF duration.
    Chainspell-Limited by MP pool.Silenced=useless
    Invinicible-Suceptible to magical attacks.
    Blood Weapon-Hit's aren't guaranteed
    Spirit Surge-Expends a Wyvern upon use.
    Overdrive-Doesn't prevent the build up of elemental fatigue.
    Familiar-Only works on current pet. Once it's dead or 30 min is up. Too bad.
    Azure Lore-Limited at early levels
    Tabula Rasa- Limited by Strategems the SCH knows so far.
    Eagle Eye Shot- Large spike damage but not guaranteed.
    Meikyo Shisui-Hits aren't guaranteed,skillchain could be interrupted
    Mijin Gakure- Expends a Ninja
    Trance- Limited by dances learned so far, must be wary of hate
    Astral Flow- Requires the SMN to rest MP between AFBPs, can be sidestepped by enemies.
    Wild Card- Unpredictable and sometimes useless
    Soulvoice- Songs are still shorter duration than the 2hour, and Lullaby,Elegy,Threnody,Requiem can still be resisted.


    Imagine there was no downside....
    Mighty Strikes- All hits are now 100% accurate.
    Hundred Fists-All hits are now 100% accurate.
    Benediction-Heals all HP with no emnity spike.
    Manafont-No emnity generated, all spells are instant cast.
    Chainspell-Spells cost 0 MP.
    Perfect Dodge- Dodges attacks.
    Invinicible-All attacks don't deal damage to the PLD.
    Mijin Gakure- Ninja Survives
    Meikyo Shisui- All ws are guaranteed to land
    Azure Lore-All spells are under BA and CA effects, no TP is consumed
    Astral Flow- BP casts are continous for 3 minutes with no wait
    Wild Card- PLayer can choose which effect
    Overdrive- No build up of elemental fatigue
    Eagle Eye Shot- Guaranteed to land
    Blood Weapon- The HP drained is an additional effect, thus doubling the DRK's damage.
    Familiar- Works on all pets you charm for 30 minutes.Even if it dies, the next pet you charm will be Familiar'd.
    Tabula Rasa- All spells casted are -50% MP cost -50% cast time +20% potency and AoE
    Soulvoice-All songs last for the duration of the 2hour and offensive songs cannot be resisted
    Trance- Waltzes generate no hate

  6. #46
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by SeraphusRagnarok
    Mighty Strikes-Hits aren't guaranteed.
    Hundred Fists-Hits aren't guaranteed
    Perfect Dodge-Suceptible Ranged Attacks
    Benediction- Generates enormously high emnity
    Manafont-Allows infinite MP usage but be wary of emnity.Long spell casts use up MF duration.
    Chainspell-Limited by MP pool.Silenced=useless
    Invinicible-Suceptible to magical attacks.
    Blood Weapon-Hit's aren't guaranteed
    Spirit Surge-Expends a Wyvern upon use.
    Overdrive-Doesn't prevent the build up of elemental fatigue.
    Familiar-Only works on current pet. Once it's dead or 30 min is up. Too bad.
    Azure Lore-Limited at early levels
    Tabula Rasa- Limited by Strategems the SCH knows so far.
    Eagle Eye Shot- Large spike damage but not guaranteed.
    Meikyo Shisui-Hits aren't guaranteed,skillchain could be interrupted
    Mijin Gakure- Expends a Ninja
    Trance- Limited by dances learned so far, must be wary of hate
    Astral Flow- Requires the SMN to rest MP between AFBPs, can be sidestepped by enemies.
    Wild Card- Unpredictable and sometimes useless
    Soulvoice- Songs are still shorter duration than the 2hour, and Lullaby,Elegy,Threnody,Requiem can still be resisted.


    Imagine there was no downside....
    Mighty Strikes- All hits are now 100% accurate.
    Hundred Fists-All hits are now 100% accurate.
    Benediction-Heals all HP with no emnity spike.
    Manafont-No emnity generated, all spells are instant cast.
    Chainspell-Spells cost 0 MP.
    Perfect Dodge- Dodges attacks.
    Invinicible-All attacks don't deal damage to the PLD.
    Mijin Gakure- Ninja Survives
    Meikyo Shisui- All ws are guaranteed to land
    Azure Lore-All spells are under BA and CA effects, no TP is consumed
    Astral Flow- BP casts are continous for 3 minutes with no wait
    Wild Card- PLayer can choose which effect
    Overdrive- No build up of elemental fatigue
    Eagle Eye Shot- Guaranteed to land
    Blood Weapon- The HP drained is an additional effect, thus doubling the DRK's damage.
    Familiar- Works on all pets you charm for 30 minutes.Even if it dies, the next pet you charm will be Familiar'd.
    Tabula Rasa- All spells casted are -50% MP cost -50% cast time +20% potency and AoE
    Soulvoice-All songs last for the duration of the 2hour and offensive songs cannot be resisted
    Trance- Waltzes generate no hate
    So you basicly combine RDM and BLM 2hour and give it to both, same with RNG and NIN. SCH's still has the downside of MP cost and cast time though?

  7. #47
    >The Implying
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by SeraphusRagnarok
    Imagine there was no downside....
    Mighty Strikes- All hits are now 100% accurate.
    Hundred Fists-All hits are now 100% accurate.
    Benediction-Heals all HP with no emnity spike.
    Manafont-No emnity generated, all spells are instant cast.
    Chainspell-Spells cost 0 MP.
    Perfect Dodge- Dodges attacks.
    Invinicible-All attacks don't deal damage to the PLD.
    Mijin Gakure- Ninja Survives
    Meikyo Shisui- All ws are guaranteed to land
    Azure Lore-All spells are under BA and CA effects, no TP is consumed
    Astral Flow- BP casts are continous for 3 minutes with no wait
    Wild Card- PLayer can choose which effect
    Overdrive- No build up of elemental fatigue
    Eagle Eye Shot- Guaranteed to land
    Blood Weapon- The HP drained is an additional effect, thus doubling the DRK's damage.
    Familiar- Works on all pets you charm for 30 minutes.Even if it dies, the next pet you charm will be Familiar'd.
    Tabula Rasa- All spells casted are -50% MP cost -50% cast time +20% potency and AoE
    Soulvoice-All songs last for the duration of the 2hour and offensive songs cannot be resisted
    Trance- Waltzes generate no hate
    What the hell is this list supposed to represent? Continuous Bloodpact use and 30 minutes of Familiar charm?
    I understand some Two Hour abilities have downsides to their use, but you're overreaching a bit in trying to contradict my suggestion I think.

  8. #48

    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    It's better off that 2 hours are flawed that way mob's versions aren't too overpowering. What do you do with a Invinicible'd Ouryu if it becomes immune to all types of damage and magic effects for 30 seconds multiple times?

  9. #49
    >The Implying
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    You focus on keeping yourself alive. As it stands, Ouryu is a snoozefest anyway.

  10. #50
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Tier3 spells to DRK doesn't help the job at all. It just makes bad DRKs look .0004% better.

    All of Jerhyn's suggestions for SMN's tickle me proper, though I'd like to see Garuda absorb Wind elemental damage and have Enaero etc etc still.

    BLM probably won't ever be useful in standard xp ever again. The mobs people xp on have too little HP for a BLM to be worthwhile. Perhaps Qutrub type mobs with normal mob HP with no bonus damage to melee/WS, but double or triple damage to nukes.

  11. #51

    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Imagine there was no downside....

    Azure Lore-All spells are under BA and CA effects, no TP is consumed
    Yea I would love for Azure lure to not outright suck...

  12. #52
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    i always thought unlocking the BP timer during Astral Flow would be amazing. Smn could actually participate with zerg fights by stacking mp and PClaw until MP was gone. I calculated the dmg with an average PClaw and it was pretty impressive with max mp gear on. You could even cap it off with a 300TP Astral Flow BP ROFL.

    But that is what smn is? Fuckoff mage dmg. Fuckoff :D

    What I'd like to see:

    Whm:

    Bardarkra and Barlightra. All Barstatus spells have a Barelement spell to pair them with. Pairing a Barstatus spell with its coordinating Barelement spell makes the Barstatus effect kick in more often against stronger (than the player) mobs (Barblizzara+Barparalyzra, oh how you fucked with Roar's from those damn tigers in Kuftal. <3). It makes no sense that white mage lacks these spells.

    Smn:

    I would also like A+ summoning skill. As the only job in the game with the given ability to summon avatars, I think it is only common sense to have A+ skill. A summoner requires their avatars to protect themself, and the avatars cannot aid the summoner if the summoner cannot call them when in need.

    Also, correct the distance wherein a summoned avatar stops and begins to attack a monster to somewhere decently closer to the monster. If the monster slightly shifts during battle away from the avatar during a physical bloodpact, the bloodpact and MP is lost. Another solution would be to increase the effective range of physical bloodpacts.

    I like Jerhyn's idea of increasing the effective range of Bloodpact: Ward effects. It would go nicely with an increase in the effective range of Bloodpact: Rage abilities.

  13. #53

    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by Shojin
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    BLU:
    - Azure Lore should open a BLU's entire spellbook for its duration.
    That is an awesome idea. for you.
    I definitely agree. Double ! I hadn't even thought of that. As it is, Azure Lore is a decent two-hour but I think this would make it far more worthwhile.

  14. #54
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    Quote Originally Posted by Priran
    PLD:
    - SE has done a great job with PLD, but there is still one glaring error. Invincible should reduce damage from all attacks - physical, ranged and magical. It should also prevent all incoming status effects and spells. For example, an invincible Paladin should not be able to be slowed, paralyzed, stunned, silenced or even dispelled while their Two Hour is active.
    This would work out perfectly, because SE wasn't sure Dynamis was tedious enough.
    Dynamis is tedious for you? Really?
    Pfft? What, no, I look forward to it. It's the highlight of my week. Were Dynamis to contain any more raw, unadulterated fun I'd frankly feel violated.


    Seriously though, unsleepable, unkillable PLDs running around thwomping mages and healing themselves to full would just be one more thing to worry about, and without any reward.

  15. #55
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Not that I really wanted to get in on this, as it seems rather... poorly thought out, to be generous...

    Warrior does more than just bap things with weapons, yeah, we are good at it, but why is my first job ability nearly useless without specific sub/situations, and why is it such a cocktease of a hate ability? Yay 30 seconds worth of rapidly decreasing enmity, that'll help fend off the hate spike from that 4k total damage SC and 2k MB!

    War needs moar hate tools, and an ability to tank that isn't completely reliant upon our subjob, kthx.

  16. #56
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    SCH really needs some work. First of all, from the last interview i read from SE SCH endgame is supposed to be a magical DD. This means that its not going to have a ton of its own support abilities like haste, regain, refresh, etc. The concept of this endgame magic DD differs from BLM in the sense that BLM deals large amounts of spike damage every once in a while. SCH on the other hand is supposed to use heavy DoT spells, with smaller nukes in between to deal smaller but consistent damage. The stratagems either need to be reduced to a 2 or less minute timer, and maybe even split up into individual timers.

  17. #57
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by SeraphusRagnarok
    Mighty Strikes-Hits aren't guaranteed.
    Hundred Fists-Hits aren't guaranteed
    Perfect Dodge-Suceptible Ranged Attacks
    Benediction- Generates enormously high emnity
    Manafont-Allows infinite MP usage but be wary of emnity.Long spell casts use up MF duration.
    Chainspell-Limited by MP pool.Silenced=useless
    Invinicible-Suceptible to magical attacks.
    Blood Weapon-Hit's aren't guaranteed
    Spirit Surge-Expends a Wyvern upon use.
    Overdrive-Doesn't prevent the build up of elemental fatigue.
    Familiar-Only works on current pet. Once it's dead or 30 min is up. Too bad.
    Azure Lore-Limited at early levels
    Tabula Rasa- Limited by Strategems the SCH knows so far.
    Eagle Eye Shot- Large spike damage but not guaranteed.
    Meikyo Shisui-Hits aren't guaranteed,skillchain could be interrupted
    Mijin Gakure- Expends a Ninja
    Trance- Limited by dances learned so far, must be wary of hate
    Astral Flow- Requires the SMN to rest MP between AFBPs, can be sidestepped by enemies.
    Wild Card- Unpredictable and sometimes useless
    Soulvoice- Songs are still shorter duration than the 2hour, and Lullaby,Elegy,Threnody,Requiem can still be resisted.


    Imagine there was no downside....
    Mighty Strikes- All hits are now 100% accurate.
    Hundred Fists-All hits are now 100% accurate.
    Benediction-Heals all HP with no emnity spike.
    Manafont-No emnity generated, all spells are instant cast.
    Chainspell-Spells cost 0 MP.
    Perfect Dodge- Dodges attacks.
    Invinicible-All attacks don't deal damage to the PLD.
    Mijin Gakure- Ninja Survives
    Meikyo Shisui- All ws are guaranteed to land
    Azure Lore-All spells are under BA and CA effects, no TP is consumed
    Astral Flow- BP casts are continous for 3 minutes with no wait
    Wild Card- PLayer can choose which effect
    Overdrive- No build up of elemental fatigue
    Eagle Eye Shot- Guaranteed to land
    Blood Weapon- The HP drained is an additional effect, thus doubling the DRK's damage.
    Familiar- Works on all pets you charm for 30 minutes.Even if it dies, the next pet you charm will be Familiar'd.
    Tabula Rasa- All spells casted are -50% MP cost -50% cast time +20% potency and AoE
    Soulvoice-All songs last for the duration of the 2hour and offensive songs cannot be resisted
    Trance- Waltzes generate no hate

    You somehow missed one of the only 2hours that actually makes some aspect of your performance WORSENED while listening the bad points each has.

    Meikyo Shisui reduces TP gained from attacks and weapon skills to 0, which really makes no sense. Especially with the new update to let us basically 2hour for one WS on command (limited by recast timer) this penalty seems really stupid. When I go into 2hour zerg mode, I can start with 300% TP and get off 6 weapon skills. Counting a swing between each, and the TP gained from the WSes themselves, this could easily be increased to 8 with nothing other than the removal of the 0 tp penalty.

    Apart from that, the only other upgrades really needed are:

    Perfect Dodge: a while back they said that they wanted to add an offensive use of PD, which still hasn't happened. Perhaps something like "all hits made from behind an enemy are considered sneak attacks while in effect" or something.

    Astral Flow: this suggestion is actually nice, maybe a bit overpowered. Perhaps during the 2hr duration it can reduce all blood pact's recast timers to something like 15 or 20 seconds. 2hr BP spammage would still be limited by the consumption of all MP, so why not.

    Eagle Eye Shot: ends up being less powerful than slugwinder 90% of the time due to the same 5.0 mod but no WSC mods. just up it to a 10.0 mod and unable to miss (except by utsu/blink/third eye absorbing it)

    Azure Lore: This ability is actually pretty good as is, but I agree opening up the whole spell list for the duration is a non-overpowering bonus that could be used.

    Blood Weapon: this 2hour has bothered me for a while. About the only use this gets is if used in conjunction with souleater in order to mitigate the HP loss while still doing a noticeable damage increase. On top of that, the ability is completely useless and craptastic if you're fighting anything undead.

    Using it on its own, at low levels you have piss poor acc and rarely will land hits quick enough for enough damage to keep you alive anyways. at high levels, there is really zero point to using it on your own unless the tank and healers have died, you have hate, and for some reason the mob is hitting you slow and weak enough for your scythe damage to make your HP back up.

    Perhaps adding an effect such as attack+50% (to scale well for 2h damage, and not be abused by kclub zergs) to blood weapon would enable it to have more use just in general "oh shit" moments and not need to rely on a combination with souleater in order to be used.

    Alternatively, Blood Weapon could be made a level 60 JA with a 10-15 min recast, and only drain a random percent of damage done rather than 100% every time, such as 25-100% of damage dealt. This would enable it to be an ability used to keep a DRK's HP healthy and at the same time reduce how simple it is to use a SEBW zerg. Most linkshells that use kclub drks for multiple pops or longer fights know to use mages to keep HP high anyways as to not be limited to once every 2 hours.

    As for a new 2hour, there aren't many offensive paths that haven't been taken with JAs and 2hours already, but perhaps an ability that simply raises the DRK's attack based on HP would be an interesting one. Say, a 100% boost (at full HP) to 250% boost (at 1% HP). It would have uses in zergs (pushing damage twice as high) and in emergencies (as the DRK dies, he hits harder and harder).

    Just my thoughts. I've always hated my DRK's fairly useless 2hr, and yes this is from someone with a 93.5% haste build which is one of the highest damaging things in the game. I just think the DRK 2hour should be more "a decent improvement at all levels", not "godly at 75 with the right gear and paired with another ability, and awful in most other situations".

    If this sounds stupid, sorry. Its 7:30 AM.

  18. #58
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    war
    war combat skill is fine, we do not need A+ in two weapon types when pup can't even get decent h2h skill.

    blm
    Even if they do bring back skill chaining it will probably still be a low level/end game thing because most merit mobs die too fast to burst effectively. More mana burn camps would be nice though.

    brd
    I already have 10 instruments filling up my inventory and would not like any more. (Unless they added a ballad one :bagel: ) I don't like the three song idea, I think it would just be making end game easier and in merit I am too busy already for any more songs. It seems like you just want to make this job more complicated/tedious.

    nin
    This is not true, enfeebling is just unnecessary/cuts into dot in a merit situations and in situations where it is needed rdm usually take care of it. If you solo on ninja you should be using it all the time. Jubaku: Ni would be nice but we really don't need the san spells. Throwing weaponskills wont help unless they lower the cost of shuriken and make the weaponskills better than the ones we already have, which wouldn't really make the job better it will just make it different.


    dnc
    I sort of like the TP idea, it reminds me of the aura spell used in other ff games. I can see them adding a high level aura samba that gave TP regain. Homam would be nice or they could at least make Barbarossa's Zerehs a bit easier to get.

    Alright, now tear it apart! I'd like to aim for the mass spamming to happen shortly before or after the next patch.

  19. #59
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    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    So i'm bored and felt like nitpicking on the SMN and BST sugestions. Only SMN and BST, i'm not that bored to check the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenji
    SMN: It's been stated by SE that they want players to leave their avatars out, and they are disappointed this isn't happening. The primary reason is the high perpetuation cost versus the low melee and TP damage gained. To encourage players to leave their avatars out more, we'd need Auto-Refresh II to help counteract the perpetuation cost. Also, adding enspells to the avatars to increase the damage they deal, would help encourage players to leave them out, while also upping the damage gained via TP when using a magical BP. Avatar buff spells currently have a very small radius where they can buff, so they miss party members often; an increase to the range of these spells would help prevent MP from being wasted.
    Auto refresh II will give me yet another reason to keep my avatar AWAY. That is, so i can actualy recover MP and use it for something better. People need to remember that even if you don't see your MP going down, you are still paying for an avatar with the MP you aren't recovering, be it by your current refresh or by resting.

    It all just boils down to the fact that your avatars out grant nothing special to your party in any situation that has more than 3 people. Ofcourse there's uses for avatars and you can make them "tank" to soak some damage, or use them to kite stuff around, etc. But generaly speaking, they are worthless apart from the BP they perform.

    Upping avatart dmg will never happen, SE is clearly afraid of pet jobs as they are seriously hard to balance given the current frame work of the game. They pretty much either suck or are overpowered. Giving damage that's worth from your pets will eventualy mean that they could end replacing a job that's meant to mostly DD. As a hybrid, SMN has a tough time in FF... and as a hybrid pet job, it's even worse.

    Best solution i've seen proposed is avatar Auras, which open a lot of posibilities to be discussed, even the influence of avatar TP. I personaly think that the concept of keeping buffs in a party with constant flow of MP (as oposed to chunks of MP like RDM or WHM would do) is actualy a decent new idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenji
    BST: A BST does not bring much to a party or high level boss fight, due to pets being capped and thus not as good as other DPS classes. To encourage mosre BSTs to party and participate in high level fights, uncap all jug pets and reskin the current HQ jug pets that look like normal mobs to more unique styles, similiar to how Courier Carrie looks different from normal crabs. Pet TP abilities generally aren't used, because many of them are aoe or not useful. Thus, there needs to be some ability to use a BST's TP to force pet to use a specific TP ability, and/or additional pet commands related to TP usage of the pet. Also, it would help greatly if Snarl could be made to work with charmed pets as well.
    "Uncaped jugs": This is overdue. Limiting jug pets for BST like this is absurd, i really don't think there's any excusse to this except for "Wut?".

    "Force pet to use a specific TP ability" (Sic II): Won't change anything. It's gonna be like Snarl, an excelent toy that won't change a BST's performance much. (Disclaimer: I'm sickly in love with Snarl)

    Snarl on charmed pets: As much as i'd love to see this, i believe this is highly and potentialy broken. BST/WAR can generate a decent amount of enmity given the chance to actualy hit the freaking mob (i guess other /xxx combos would too). Snarl currently provides a way to shade your hate and make your pet take the hits as a back up tank at best. Problem is, even Carrie can't stand much long under heavy hitting.
    What would happen if you could transfer hate to natural pets which are naturaly much more stronger? They not only can dish decent damage on the right situations but now they'd be able to tank without needing a main healer at all.
    Again, i am not sure if this is what the game really needs. Truth is that most areas are already blocked to BST use, and all events that matter usualy don't have pets to charm or they are highly limited. Still, i see this as something very dangerous and as a BST i'm not sure if it's something that will really benefit the game as a whole instead of creating a lot of unneeded classes.

    Personaly, the best and most cost efficient way i can think of to make BST, and any other pet job for that matter, on par with others is if gear buffs and personal buffs were transfered PASSIVELY to the pet. Not the stupid DRG-style JA, but a passive trait that would simply give the pet buffs.

    Think about it a minute: A BST gives up all the DD traits and JAs a war has in favour of what her pet can do. But when you start buffing jobs, a WAR takes full advantage of them as it's completely affected by any bard song, roll or spell effect. On the other hand, the BST takes half advantage because his other half recieves nothing. Pet Rolls have the same effect, but inversed. The master recieves nothing.
    This is even worse in the case of a PUP where the master itself is just an added perk and the puppet is the main thing.
    Ofcourse this would need some tweaking, but that's not up to me.

    Oh, and finaly, what could really benefit all pet jobs is if they stoped treating them like they don't exist and actualy add Pet Job oriented gear. Hello? Sets with SMN/PUP/BST as jobs please? Salvage really is lacking that. I doubt this will ever happen, but it should've been that way since PUP was introduced.

    And to close:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn
    SMN:
    - SMN's summoning skill should be A+.
    - Retreat should transfer the summoner's enmity to their summoned avatar.
    - The effect range of Ward Bloodpacts should be dramatically increased.
    - Introduce a number of new Ward Bloodpacts that the SMN has access to while under the effect of Astral Flow.
    SMN's summoning skill should be A+: What for? SMN skill as is affects only your interruption rate when summoning and spirit AI. As much as i like not being interrupted in a crisis situation when i definitely NEED that avatar out and i'm getting hit, this is not a common situation. Also, this is usualy related to solo (or near solo, when everyone's laying down dead ) situations, which isn't really the point where SMN needs a kick.
    Spirits as of now aren't too attractive. Even with more skill, they are still not very interesting to the majority of SMNs and definitely don't stand out enough to grant a firm position in a party event. Now, when and if spirits get tweaked, this could be interesting. But currently, it serves no purpose.
    Note: I am aware that SMN skill affects other things, but it's skill over the cap.

    Retreat should transfer the summoner's enmity to their summoned avatar: So basicly you want snarl on a 5 second timer? A bit too much, don't you think? Avatars are even more disposable than BST pets which are limited to one every 5 minutes (not counting merits). You can summon an avatar every 20 seconds and snarl it every time retreat is up. As fun as this could be, this would be so easily exploitable. Two SMNs will kite things forever while still throwing damage without a chance of failure ever. And please, don't say SMNs can already do that because the small hate won by using a bloodpact in hate range is enough to add over time, let's not even say how stupid it would be to be able to DS+Cure III on the mob's face without any repercusion.

    The effect range of Ward Bloodpacts should be dramatically increased: I still feel cheated that this has never been addressed =/ SMN would be unique if this was fixed in the sense that it could do the rare thing of buffing a party while still being out of danger (Engage avatar on moster, use BP). <.< But yeah, how many times have people complained about this? Still not happening ><

    Introduce a number of new Ward Bloodpacts that the SMN has access to while under the effect of Astral Flow.: Eh, no thanks. I already have enough with my never ending list of useless and worthless pacts, why do i want some that MAY be useful only once every 2 hours? I'd rather get Ward pacts that are useful, reduce the Ward timer to half or less (yes, there is NOTHING wrong with being able to throw all your buffs in succession, specialy when you have to wait for avatar summing when changing avatars) and if you really want to tweak our 2hour, then make it so that it makes current pacts better, cheaper, or whatever. But new BPs only for our 2hour? Bleh.

    Edit: Replaced word "Out" with "Away" in the first phrase for clearness' sake.

  20. #60
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    622
    BG Level
    5

    Re: Opinions for Job Adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirokun!
    Whm: Bardarkra and Barlightra.
    Good suggestions. Adding them.

    As I said before, raising the SMN skill to A+ is pointless until SMN skill means more than spell interruption(and spell interruption is handled via blink, stoneskin, and aquaveil of the whm sub). Regardless of where the cap is, you need to get above it to have any other effects. The Rage distance thing is annoying, although you can currently get around it by making sure your avatar is disengaged, getting him near, activating the Rage skill, then immediately hitting assault. This will cause the avatar to follow the mob while charging the BP. It still could use a tweak, as you said, so you don't have to go through this motion. But there are other issues than seem a bit more important that they be addressed, especially for SMNs leveling up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zekyr
    DRK's fairly useless 2hr
    I kinda agree, but I've been at a bit of of a loss as to what to do with it, other than making it last 1 min with an accuracy increase. It was mentioned above, to just have it heal the drk and not as an added weapon effect, but the name of the ability is "Blood Weapon" so it sorta of implies that.

    PLD 2 hour has been mentioned a few times, good arguments both. PLD mobs was something I hadn't considered. We would be dealing with invincible PLD mobs all over the place, especially in the new content SE throws at us. While Invincible blocking magic as well is a good idea, I'm going to focus the list on those things which "really" need an adjustment. PLD is otherwise fine at the moment, in comparison to other classes. In that light, I've removed WAR and RDM from the list. Max, WAR could use a tanking boost, but perhaps the counter ability from SE will help in that regard. Let's wait and see. If it ends up sucking, we can think up something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiemonster
    blm
    Even if they do bring back skill chaining it will probably still be a low level/end game thing because most merit mobs die too fast to burst effectively. More mana burn camps would be nice though.
    Have to take into account BLMs who are leveling as well. Do we want to limit BLMs to just solo or manaburns all the way up, and thus not have much of a concept of aggro or partying? Plus, SE has said they'd like to make SC's more attractive again, and ToAU camps might be nerfed a bit. Or better camps might open up in WotG areas.

    brd
    I already have 10 instruments filling up my inventory and would not like any more. (Unless they added a ballad one :bagel: ) I don't like the three song idea, I think it would just be making end game easier and in merit I am too busy already for any more songs. It seems like you just want to make this job more complicated/tedious.
    Well, as I mentioned before, the new instruments wouldn't fill up your bag, just replace some of your flutes. For instance, Crumhorn would be replaced by a lute that has Carol+2 on it. The only difference you'd notice, is a different tune when played, and the Carol you add isn't counted towards the 2 song limit. You don't use carols all the time, so it would just be a nice thing to have where resistance is needed, and wouldn't take the place of your normal songs.

    However, do other BRDs see this as valuable? Do they want to play the some flutes over and over? BRD is already highly wanted in parties, at all levels and situations, so improvements wouldn't seem to be a must.

    nin
    This is not true, enfeebling is just unnecessary/cuts into dot in a merit situations and in situations where it is needed rdm usually take care of it. If you solo on ninja you should be using it all the time. Jubaku: Ni would be nice but we really don't need the san spells. Throwing weaponskills wont help unless they lower the cost of shuriken and make the weaponskills better than the ones we already have, which wouldn't really make the job better it will just make it different.
    Well, not having leveled nin myself, this is what a few other nins suggested. As far as improving, one thing that struck me was the Alexander fight at the end of ToAU. Having a paladin stand at a distance, flashing, provoking, and healing himself to tank at a distance. Having more available shuriken and throwing WS's would help a ninja do the same thing. Also, RDMs aren't always available, in 6 man groups, ie missions and xp parties. A ninja may find themselves having to debuff. Especially if the ideas about enemies with more HP, but worth more xp, come about.

    Lastly, a lot of good talk about BLU. We have a lot of suggestions, and might want to consider trimming some. Too many might make it look like we're asking for too much. Let me post what I've got listed now, in no particular order:

    BLU: SE did a great job with BLU, as it is highly balanced and well-liked by the community. The only adjustments suggested, would be to smooth it's use, and encourage use of more of their lesser used abilities. 1000 needles is currently not used much due to high resist rate and MP cost. As it's a staple Blue mage spell, we'd like to see it used more. An adjustment so that it hits more often and slightly reduce MP cost would allow it to find use again; it's balanced due to a long cast and recast time. Also, the following spells could benefit greatly from an extended duration so they are used more often: Amplification, Saline Coat, Reactor Cool, Plasma Charge. A macro command to set Blue Spells would be nice as well. As for new spells, most BLU's would like the following: Mighty Guard(protect and shell for party), Battery Charge(self MP restore), and White Wind. Multi-hit Blue spells currently give a lot of TP to their targets, as much as 10 per hit. As a result, it's highly punishing to the group when the mobs use stronger TP attacks more often. As a suggestion, lower the amount of TP a mob gains through multi-hit spells; perhaps 5 per hit. Azure Lore should open a BLU's entire spellbook for its duration.

    Prioritize what you'd like to see, and we'll drop a couple of the less-favored ones.

    For all jobs, try to think of how the changes will affect all areas, from leveling, merits, missions, soloing, HNM, BCNM, etc.

    Oh, and new post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shassira
    I'd rather get Ward pacts that are useful, reduce the Ward timer to half or less
    Another good idea. Who says it has to be 1 min? 30 seconds for Ward would allow us to make more use out of our BPs. A good suggestion, and better than the 2 other BP commands I initially thought of. Only concern is that with -BP gear, you could get it down to 15 seconds or so. Perhaps 40 or 45 seconds initially?

    Good point about Snarl, thought. I hadn't considered that (someday I'll get my BST past 20 and to 75...). Probably why SE only attached it to Jug Pets. The "Force a specific TP" move, ala Sic II, would be to use a single target WS in case other mobs are around and you don't want to use a TP move, because it could be AOE and you'd hit them. Just a perk on a 5 min timer or something, as a way to gain more control over your pet.

Closed Thread
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