Bahamut Scythe or Rune Chopper

[Vejitta]

If there is already that kinda of topic then please forgive me for I couldn't find it even with magical search button.

I'm doing DRK, I'm 61 atm. This job will be strictly for TP Burn purpose, since I have WAR which is my primary job where I put all melee merits (aka GA, Axe, Sword) and I'm not intending to move them from there.

I was thinkin whether Rune Chopper is better than Bahamut Scythe for SE+BW usage. I heard many 'Rune Chopper combo', but there isn't much bout Bahamut Scythe, which, for me, looks much better. Up to 3 hits every round is quite hefty. Still, I have those GA merits, Fort Torque and enough mp to burn for Rune Chopper purpose.

Also - I have Ridill so you might take that into consideration as well ^^;

[Lyramion]

Bahamut Scythe will outdo Rune Chopper on SE BW fights. The big part of your dmg all comes from your HP. Attack and Weapon Merits don´t matter much.

The more Haste you have for a BZ setup the worse Chopper will perform compared to it. Rune Chopper lets you reach the absolute Haste cap of 93.3 rather easy. On Average the Chopper will let you attack around 25% faster than a single hit Scythe depending n your setup.


Ridill is another story. No 2h hax ACC, no Hasso Haste, no DB Haste. It will work but give you a subpar performance.

[Wizerd]

I'm not sure how Bahamut's Zhagnal would win.

I'm seeing 54 swings in 30 seconds from Rune Chopper. With the damage from base hits stacked with Blood Weapon, you're getting massive healing power during that 30 second stint, so anything that hits you won't be able to kill you unless you get one-shotted. Huge advantage when you're doing something like this.

I'm seeing 34 swings (now, that's attack rounds, so obviously more hits) from Bahamut's Zhagnal. If it's like Ridill with a 20/50/30 supposed activation rate, that would be an average of 71.4 hits in 30 seconds if I got my math right.

This also assumes you're using capped haste gear with Rune Chopper, and max possible haste with Bahamut's Zhagnal (Speed Belt, Walahra Turban, Dusk Gloves +1, Homam legs/feet).

Would the SE/BW damage gained from the extra 17.4 hits be more than the base damage per hit from Rune Chopper? I suppose it depends what you fight, but in most cases I'd guess yes. I suppose I rebuttled my own statement at the start of this post.

For the sake of argument, let's say the poster only has the more general haste gear (Walahra, Swift Belt, Dusk/Homam gloves, Homam legs/feet). Your swings drop to 56.7, making Rune Chopper better.


** Disclaimer: 5:25am, doing my best math considering. Feel free to rip it apart if it's wrong! (but only if it's really wrong, not if it's only off by a few hits.)

[Darus Grey]

So basically the better your haste setup before chopper, the better BZ would be, where if your lacking some haste the amount you get from runechopper lets you get much higher performance from lesser gear.

So my question would be(since I suck at math), at what percentage of gear haste before chopper does BZ start to over-take it?.

[fishstix]

I liked this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25840

I've heard that RC would outperform KC even, but within the first 30seconds only from Desperate Blows. I'm still a 73 drk... so I can't say for sure

[Lukias]

The last 5 Bahamut v2 fights I've done I've gone against a RC drk and won each time by about 1200 dmg each time with Bahamut Scythe.

Personally if Bahamut scythe triple attacks once or twice, its going to end up winning.

[Lyramion]

From your Sig you look like a Galka with massive HP - what race was your opponent?

[Churchill]

RC is going to be better than everything for sub par geared players or even well geared (Homam/swift belt).

When your haste gear is incredibly leet (Dusk+1, Speed belt, Homam Feet, Homam Legs, Blitz ring, Walahra Turban-22%) BZ will have a very good chance of outparsing it, though sometimes even RC can out do it. BZ is very good for higher evasion mobs though, but even then it's very rare when setup correctly to parse under 95% accuracy with an RC. Someone who knows the math can post why this is true but meh, as long as you're doing 10k+ in 30s you're zerging correctly.

The best setup is pretty much between Apoc->BZ/KC depending on the fight.

[Wizerd]

but even then it's very rare when setup correctly to parse under 95% accuracy with an RC. Someone who knows the math can post why this is true

The explanation doesn't really require math. It's Feint, plain and simple.

[Churchill]

Math being more directed at why RC will hit more often at what % haste than BZ, not accuracy...

[Wizerd]

Math being more directed at why RC will hit more often at what % haste than BZ, not accuracy...

Ah, I misunderstood then. I thought "Someone who knows the math can post why this is true" was referring to the 95% accuracy thing. My bad.

[Lukias]

From your Sig you look like a Galka with massive HP - what race was your opponent?

Usually a hume, but once was a galka and an elvaan

Edit: And my favorite thing about the scythe is that no matter the situation I have 304 skill, compared to GA 240.

[RKenshin]

If you have the max amount of haste from gear, BZ will easily do the best. If you're max haste is sub ~20% then you're better off using Rune Chopper. So if you have a Speed Belt but not Dusk+1 or Blitz, you'd probably still be better off using Rune.

The damage added to each attack round from your base damage rating on Rune Chopper is too small in comparison to how much Souleater damage is added to mean anything on any mob you'd zerg regularly. You're usually not going to get more than ~60-120 damage out of the base damage, versus getting a good ~200-300 out of the Souleater damage.

On most DL runs lately I've been loaning my KC to other DRKs that don't have one, since you don't need near-perfect gear to get really nice results from using KC, and I can reach the max melee haste and use BZ/Rune with a just about perfect setup (none of the other regular DRKs in the LS can other than the Apoc DRK). I can get about 2.5k HP using max haste and maintaining 95% acc, resulting in some pretty sick damage. In which case, I'm getting about 300 damage per hit strictly from Souleater.

[Churchill]

Sounds like people need to do some meriting...

Easily the best 120,000XP you can spend to make your life easier.

[Sess]

Edit: And my favorite thing about the scythe is that no matter the situation I have 304 skill, compared to GA 240.

One of the reasons I go BZ over RC. I feel it gives me slightly less room for errors, and our last B2 proved that. I think feint landed, but we all got AoE petra and by the time it wore off feint was almost gone. I still had something like 90% ACC with Carbo and and some HP gear.

[Kilik]

If you are lvling drk only for TP burn fights, why not go with Octave club?

[Churchill]

Because other than the fact you can do it every 6 minutes, it in now way compares to the damage RC does.

[Kilik]

Im not sure what you are referring to with the 6minutes comment, but have there been tests or atleast calculations done for OC vs RC? I was under the impression that Octave was only second to Kraken.

[Stromgarde]

If you can use OC, you can't use Homam, AF+1, or any number of other things most zerg builds hinge on. Effectively, anyway.

[Kilik]

You can still get around 18% haste and 1750 hp w/o food when using OC.