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  1. #81
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybar
    Quote Originally Posted by spooky
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybar
    Quote Originally Posted by Damane
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybar
    Adding additionaly a way like in Limbus with Ex-Items to enter different wing tiers would let people join Einherjar that missed due to Reallife some Wing runs.
    This is called the "Mark of the Einherjar" However, it doesn't let you enter Odin's Chamber. It WILL allow you to enter all chambers without any prerequisites, however Odin's Chamber ALWAYS requires 9 feathers.

    To obtain the Mark, you need to have completed all 9 chambers, first. If it is your first time doing Einherjar, unfortunately you will be out of luck if you missed (unless your LS is nice enough to re-do the run).
    For first time doers its shitty hell. Missing one 1. wing run and I cant join on wing 2's is shit, since I basicly will miss now also wing 3 and odin run...
    The point is, there already is a key item for the situation, but you need to be dedicated to obtain it. Einherjar shouldn't be a free-pass to King Abjs. I don't know how much easier SE will want to make Einherjar for people that can't (or won't) camp Ground HNMs. Next people will start asking to weaken tier 3 bosses.
    I don't know what Einherjar you've been doing but it's about as far as you can get from a "free pass to king Abjs".
    The current implementation is shitty at best, you can tell because pretty much no one does it. The time vs. reward is shitty, it's not scaled like they said it was going to be, and having to rely on bringing a shit ton brds sucks.
    I love how people bitch about congestion at kings, yet don't want to make Einherjar easier for people to actually get gear they want.
    I never said it was a free-pass to King Abjs. There's a reason it's hard to obtain. Plenty of people do Einherjar. Almost all End-game shells are (or should be) doing them.

    Camping the Ground HNMs is "congested" and time consuming, sure. If your LS is following the long-lasting trend of botting, then Einherjar probably isn't right for you (assuming your competition is shittier botting or legitimate shells trying to get their chance at a claim). If you are one of those legitimate shells that take their try at getting claims, why the hell not do Einherjar? You are most likely NOT going to claim every other day, and the reward over time factor will be much higher with Einherjar.

    It WILL take a while for your LS to do their first Odin (from Tier 1 to 3), but after that, and seeing the reward (and how easy the actual Odin fight is) sparks enlightenment in your LS to make time for Einherjar twice a week. Our LS went up to Odin with 22, after we beat him, we now have 36 members always show up to the other tiers to get a chance to fight Odin. The fight alone is more exhilarating than the rewards. It takes minimum 4.5 weeks of Einherjar to gain your just reward. That is far better odds than sitting in a crowded zone fighting against 90 other people for a claim that happens only once every 4-9+ days.

    There really is no need to make a pre-Odin key item to enter chambers, because there's almost no use (you'll still need the chamber you missed anyway). I really think SE might change the amount of time before next entry, if anything at all. And I REALLY hope that is the case.

    Just because no one does Einherjar, as you say, does not make it a shitty implementation. That has to be one of the worst arguments ever. You need to take outside factors into play. Sure the scaling method turns people down, but you don't need 36 people to beat every single tier (25 was our average, and that is a good average for all-around LS's). Maybe a LS's schedule is too tied up already to be doing another event (sky/sea/limbus/dynamis/hnms(?) in a week is stressful enough).
    No ones doing Einherjar because the drop rates are so fantastically low that most people are turned away and write off the event as a waste of time. The issue stands that if you want band-aid the issue of kings, you need to appeal to people and not just a super-small community that is content with the event as of now.

    The drop rates on abjuration chamber for chamber is low and the sub-rewards from defeating the much harder than kings bosses is pathetic, killing Fafnir and get a better overall reward even if 0 abjurations dropped off him vs 2 mauls and a hide off the Wivre boss is sad and demoralizing for many a linkshell. Einherjar is a large scale event, much like Dynamis before it but lacks any sort of 'consolation prizes' (dynamis features currency win or lose) if you lose or any sub-rewards for everyone doing work but isnt lotting that rare abjuration drop when it comes - the ichor rewards are long-term investments in the least.

    No one is asking for a 'free-pass to kings', einherjar is quite difficult and is on a 3 day timer which limits abusing it but for crying out loud, throw some kinda rewards in there win-or-lose (even if it boils down to only ichor if you fail) and allow people to see Odin but also get some form of reward along the path - and a long path Einherjar is.

  2. #82
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    Re: Question Discussion

    No ones doing Einherjar because the drop rates are so fantastically low that most people are turned away and write off the event as a waste of time. The issue stands that if you want band-aid the issue of kings, you need to appeal to people and not just a super-small community that is content with the event as of now.

    The drop rates on abjuration chamber for chamber is low and the sub-rewards from defeating the much harder than kings bosses is pathetic, killing Fafnir and get a better overall reward even if 0 abjurations dropped off him vs 2 mauls and a hide off the Wivre boss is sad and demoralizing for many a linkshell. Einherjar is a large scale event, much like Dynamis before it but lacks any sort of 'consolation prizes' (dynamis features currency win or lose) if you lose or any sub-rewards for everyone doing work but isnt lotting that rare abjuration drop when it comes - the ichor rewards are long-term investments in the least.

    No one is asking for a 'free-pass to kings', einherjar is quite difficult and is on a 3 day timer which limits abusing it but for crying out loud, throw some kinda rewards in there win-or-lose (even if it boils down to only ichor if you fail) and allow people to see Odin but also get some form of reward along the path - and a long path Einherjar is.
    Einherjar was a fix to Ground Kings. The rarity of getting them is about as rare as getting to Odin (or not rare at all). There is no way this is a waste of time when you go to the Odin's Chamber thread in Event Section and see the treasure they are obtaining. LunariansLS of Bismarck has done about 4(?) since the initial nerf of Einherjar. They aren't as productive as they used to be in the HNM scene, and they have gotten much more than some LS's that camp Ground HNMs.

    Dynamis costs 1million gil. There is no win-win situation when you are in the red with currency. There was a discussion about the price already, and the rewards are FAR from as great as Einherjar's reward (Only a few jobs gain an advantage with AF2, and only a couple pieces are worth even mentioning for other jobs).

    The Drop rates from the individual chamber shouldn't really be an issue. Duh it sucks (We've only seen 2 in about 20 or so runs), but they are pretty worthless. I would like to see better items drop (I mentioned before in an Einherjar thread, but the sheep pet that you kill enhances the type of items from boss, and I thought that those should have been the reward instead of senseless materials.) The Ampoule items are very nice, though, in the long run.

    Yes, I agree there should be some kind of "win-or-lose" reward, even half the amount of ampoules rewarded for a loss, or a Feather or two from Odin (seems doubtful for the future, though).

    Bosses in Einherjar don't take even close to as long as it takes to take down a King. The reason people think it's harder is because it requires more than monotonous "stand on the paws and kill" techniques or "kite in a circle and hit your thunder 4 macro". That's what is great about Einherjar, it requires attention from everyone and teamwork all around. The one thing I dislike is the hate system that is nearly ass-backwards with bosses.

    I don't understand what the issue is with the difficulty. All you need is two tanks for double assists for most waves, and you have a good 20mins to kill a relatively easy boss from tiers 1 & 2. Tier 3 I will admit is rather difficult, even for very well equipped LSs, but it isn't impossible (again we completed them with 23 ppl max. Now we have 30+ and is much easier and less stressful).

    The issue isn't with Einherjar itself, it's with the community. They want something that doesn't take a lot of effort or manpower to obtain. I find it mindless and redundant. I really feel the amount of effort you put into Einherjar with the rewards you get at the end is really wonderful. I understand you can't miss a single run, but think about the people that were doing dynamis for the first time. You really think LS's WANTED to do Windurst over and over for people that missed it? Give this instance some time for people to get used to.

  3. #83
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Question 1 seems silly, paralyze is a debuff on you, its supposed to be annoying. Question 2 just seems like bad programing but I doubt so much they would bother with it I would almost hate to have a good question slot wasted on it. That brings us to question 3. I get what you are asking for as far as new mage foods, atm best food for a blm in general is too expensive to bother using and the melon pies +1 people have been using since 2004, but wtf is a melee friendly cookie? Do you mean just hp resting food? B/c they are in the game, they are called crackers, and noone uses them, so are you saying to make melee crackers with hhp and also some melee bonueses? Need to really clarify your food question b/c atm I think most people arent sure exactly what you mean with atleast part of it.
    Question 1 and Question 2 are more things that just strike me as annoying and uneccessary. Question 3 to clarify for melee foods, I mean something along the lines of having approximately half the capped effect of the melee foods for the same stats (~5% instead of 10%) with the caps based on stats the same. Mostly to see more people not gimp themselves on birdies because /whine "it's too expensive." On the mage foods, there are no foods that actually raise MAB or magic accuracy outside of a boost to one's Int or Mnd stats.

  4. #84

    Re: Question Discussion

    1 question i'd like to ask, but already spent my 5 so maybe someone else can ask it. why are all ??? trigger repops 15 minutes? i can't say how many rostrum pumps trips or haku trips could have been cut down dramatically if the repop had been 5 minutes instead. maybe i'm just nitpicking, but why is it that on many fights we find ourselves sitting and waiting to pop longer than actually fighting the damnable thing? *cough sky gods cough*

  5. #85
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Being that it took Square-Enix how long to even talk about fixing AV. I'd say we have another yr and a bit before Square-Enix makes Einherjar what it should have been. What needs to change to make it a fix for kings is the following.

    A. Free (Kings are free to participate in why should people have to pay for the alternative of camping them.)
    B. Instant porting of group with lamps inside when the leader trades his.
    C. Actually make it scalable like they said it would be. 24-36 people shouldn't have to show up every time to win (Again this is supposedly the alternative to Kings since when does it take 18+ people to kill Fafnir.)
    D. Yes put some limitation on killing Odin but make it timed based not the idiotic system that it is now. If SE would be unwilling to make it time based make it like Limbus Chips where the leader holds the access items for Odin. (That way a committed member won't be screwed when he has a family emergency missing one of the runs.)
    C. As soon as you kill the last mob you receive a 5 min extension to pop chest (I think they did this, correct me if I'm wrong?)
    E. Totally random does not = strategy this is like the ultimate SE lottery. SE makes it so light based sleep is incredibly limited and then decides that difficultly is based on how many freaking Brds you can get.
    F. ALL KING DROPS SHOULD BE AVAILABLE IN EINHERJAR!! Ridill, Defending Ring, Behemoth Hides, etc.

    This is just an attempt to get as many people as possible to waste their time for slim to crap rewards.

    Jaybar, as it stands think about how long it will take you get all 30 people their gear through the current system. I've done Einherjar and yes it's a fun fight but the system is totally flawed. Also the majority of LSs that get far in Einherjar are not the LSs that don't camp kings it's the LSs that are totally pimped already. So I'm so sure that all these kings campers would be pissed if Einherjar got them more stuff.

  6. #86
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybar
    No ones doing Einherjar because the drop rates are so fantastically low that most people are turned away and write off the event as a waste of time. The issue stands that if you want band-aid the issue of kings, you need to appeal to people and not just a super-small community that is content with the event as of now.

    The drop rates on abjuration chamber for chamber is low and the sub-rewards from defeating the much harder than kings bosses is pathetic, killing Fafnir and get a better overall reward even if 0 abjurations dropped off him vs 2 mauls and a hide off the Wivre boss is sad and demoralizing for many a linkshell. Einherjar is a large scale event, much like Dynamis before it but lacks any sort of 'consolation prizes' (dynamis features currency win or lose) if you lose or any sub-rewards for everyone doing work but isnt lotting that rare abjuration drop when it comes - the ichor rewards are long-term investments in the least.

    No one is asking for a 'free-pass to kings', einherjar is quite difficult and is on a 3 day timer which limits abusing it but for crying out loud, throw some kinda rewards in there win-or-lose (even if it boils down to only ichor if you fail) and allow people to see Odin but also get some form of reward along the path - and a long path Einherjar is.
    Einherjar was a fix to Ground Kings. The rarity of getting them is about as rare as getting to Odin (or not rare at all). There is no way this is a waste of time when you go to the Odin's Chamber thread in Event Section and see the treasure they are obtaining. LunariansLS of Bismarck has done about 4(?) since the initial nerf of Einherjar. They aren't as productive as they used to be in the HNM scene, and they have gotten much more than some LS's that camp Ground HNMs.

    Dynamis costs 1million gil. There is no win-win situation when you are in the red with currency. There was a discussion about the price already, and the rewards are FAR from as great as Einherjar's reward (Only a few jobs gain an advantage with AF2, and only a couple pieces are worth even mentioning for other jobs).

    The Drop rates from the individual chamber shouldn't really be an issue. Duh it sucks (We've only seen 2 in about 20 or so runs), but they are pretty worthless. I would like to see better items drop (I mentioned before in an Einherjar thread, but the sheep pet that you kill enhances the type of items from boss, and I thought that those should have been the reward instead of senseless materials.) The Ampoule items are very nice, though, in the long run.

    Yes, I agree there should be some kind of "win-or-lose" reward, even half the amount of ampoules rewarded for a loss, or a Feather or two from Odin (seems doubtful for the future, though).

    Bosses in Einherjar don't take even close to as long as it takes to take down a King. The reason people think it's harder is because it requires more than monotonous "stand on the paws and kill" techniques or "kite in a circle and hit your thunder 4 macro". That's what is great about Einherjar, it requires attention from everyone and teamwork all around. The one thing I dislike is the hate system that is nearly ass-backwards with bosses.

    I don't understand what the issue is with the difficulty. All you need is two tanks for double assists for most waves, and you have a good 20mins to kill a relatively easy boss from tiers 1 & 2. Tier 3 I will admit is rather difficult, even for very well equipped LSs, but it isn't impossible (again we completed them with 23 ppl max. Now we have 30+ and is much easier and less stressful).

    The issue isn't with Einherjar itself, it's with the community. They want something that doesn't take a lot of effort or manpower to obtain. I find it mindless and redundant. I really feel the amount of effort you put into Einherjar with the rewards you get at the end is really wonderful. I understand you can't miss a single run, but think about the people that were doing dynamis for the first time. You really think LS's WANTED to do Windurst over and over for people that missed it? Give this instance some time for people to get used to.
    Your right, the issue is with the community, and thats why this underwhelming content feel will continue to come off Einherjar. The system is fine, the problem is that it needs a helping hand or its going to join the useless content pile if it hasnt in most eyes already. The framework of the content is good, all that needs to be adjusted is the reward vs time ratios since hardcore endgamers see it as inferior and the trickle-down effect of that is even casual people dont wanna touch it. Yes, some people enjoy it currently but it'd be much more accessable to people if it were an actual alternative to kings (most kings offer one abjuration per kill, should be the same deal with ein.)

    -Increase the individual chamber abjuration rates. (3day stop on the event, large-scale even means only one persons gonna get rewarded outta 24+)
    -Warp all players into the chamber once the glass is traded. (Kinda like Salvage, but it'd be an issue with multiple parties)

    Issue is mainly selling the idea to try Einherjar again to the community, obviously they put alot of work into it - but it could be more appealing with more adjustments. Its just silly that the alternative to kings is way harder (scaled vs kings) and doesnt reward half as much instantly.

  7. #87
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ronin sparthos
    -Warp all players into the chamber once the glass is traded. (Kinda like Salvage, but it'd be an issue with multiple parties)
    Do the initial trade to get the lamp, trade to everyone, have the person who got the original lamp to talk to the door, and you could get prompt that says to warp everyone with a lamp currently into the zone.

  8. #88
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by orson
    Being that it took Square-Enix how long to even talk about fixing AV. I'd say we have another yr and a bit before Square-Enix makes Einherjar what it should have been. What needs to change to make it a fix for kings is the following.

    A. Free (Kings are free to participate in why should people have to pay for the alternative of camping them.)
    I think you are also paying for the Ampoules (if you get Wivre boss, there's the lamp cost right there in that hide).
    B. Instant porting of group with lamps inside when the leader trades his.
    I couldn't agree any more.
    C. Actually make it scalable like they said it would be. 24-36 people shouldn't have to show up every time to win (Again this is supposedly the alternative to Kings since when does it take 18+ people to kill Fafnir.)
    I think the problem with scaling would be the Boss itself. The waves I understand people are pissed about (18 or so on tier1). But when it comes to the boss, they'd have to lower the HP, but not sure if they will gimp it's offensive/defensive traits. Might end up being like 16-24 is the ideal amount of people needed to do the chambers if it were to be scaled (and the boss wasn't gimped properly).
    D. Yes put some limitation on killing Odin but make it timed based not the idiotic system that it is now. If SE would be unwilling to make it time based make it like Limbus Chips where the leader holds the access items for Odin. (That way a committed member won't be screwed when he has a family emergency missing one of the runs.)
    I like the idea, but that might require a lot of revamping for the system. No longer would there be keyitem feathers, and I would like to see the reaction of the community if it became more of a Limbus style instance. I would much rather it be a 36 or 48hr limitation event instead of 72hr. Not to mention I dont know anyone willing to carry 9 feathers on them, killing inventory space.
    C. As soon as you kill the last mob you receive a 5 min extension to pop chest (I think they did this, correct me if I'm wrong?)
    They make the five minute extension as soon as you open chest. It SHOULD be upon defeating the last boss. I've heard a couple instances where people have lost the chamber due to not opening chest in time.
    E. Totally random does not = strategy this is like the ultimate SE lottery. SE makes it so light based sleep is incredibly limited and then decides that difficultly is based on how many freaking Brds you can get.
    Well you don't need an alliance of bards to handle waves. You need good 3-4 bards, and 2 or 3 blms is nice to alternate ES+Sleepga. After that, it's really straight forward. The real strategy comes in defeating the boss (at least, most of them). Like I said, having 2 assists really cuts down on the fighting (having 3 parties of DDs attacking a single mob is very inefficient, because most of the time 20% of them won't get a hit in edge wise).
    F. ALL KING DROPS SHOULD BE AVAILABLE IN EINHERJAR!! Ridill, Defending Ring, Behemoth Hides, etc.
    Well the point of Einherjar was to include a new event to obtain abjurations. Ridill doesn't come from a king. But, what puzzles me is that a couple King Abjs drop in regular chamber (w.head for instance can drop in tier 1 and Odin's Chamber). Behemoth Hide should drop from Behemoth boss on Tier 3 (read previous post about rewards).
    This is just an attempt to get as many people as possible to waste their time for slim to crap rewards.
    No, that's camping for 1-9hrs a day on 3 HNMs
    Jaybar, as it stands think about how long it will take you get all 30 people their gear through the current system. I've done Einherjar and yes it's a fun fight but the system is totally flawed. Also the majority of LSs that get far in Einherjar are not the LSs that don't camp kings it's the LSs that are totally pimped already. So I'm so sure that all these kings campers would be pissed if Einherjar got them more stuff.
    Well the part about "how long it will take you to get all 30 people their gear..." is a bit unjustified. Again, I bring up the amount of time it takes for a LS to get that gear from the other method of obtaining (camping). Einherjar wasn't really meant for the casual or laid back player/LS, as you can experience doing it yourself. You don't need to be pimp, it only helps. Just knowledgeable of your job and your purpose in the alliance. It's completely opposite of Dynamis where you can slack off and cure every so often, or hit a single macro and go to the bathroom.

    I'm not disagreeing that Einherjar needs tweaking, but I believe it's at the difficulty SE wanted it at. I would love to see more people participate and realize "hey, this isn't hard" instead of bitch and moan that they don't know what's going on (Event Section threads have great strategies on bosses and what types of mobs you can expect). Should always prepare for your weaknesses, and bring meds (Ic wing, Poison Pots, etc)!!!!


    Warp all players into the chamber once the glass is traded. (Kinda like Salvage, but it'd be an issue with multiple parties)
    I think this is very do-able with multiple parties. Like Orson said, once a leader trades his/her glass, the party should be ported inside (should prompt whether not all members can enter, too). Just don't engage once inside until every glass was traded I can definitely see this as a fix in the future, and could also be imposed into Dynamis as well.

  9. #89
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybar
    Warp all players into the chamber once the glass is traded. (Kinda like Salvage, but it'd be an issue with multiple parties)
    I think this is very do-able with multiple parties. Like Orson said, once a leader trades his/her glass, the party should be ported inside (should prompt whether not all members can enter, too). Just don't engage once inside until every glass was traded I can definitely see this as a fix in the future, and could also be imposed into Dynamis as well.
    A simpler solution was posted on the other thread. It basically said give us 35 minutes and make the mobs not pop until there are 30 minutes left.

    I'll add to that and say lock the door when the mobs pop, so there is no doubt that you should pull immediately even if some moron went afk outside.

  10. #90
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Question 1
    A cursory glance at every server's HNM scene reveals many third party tools being used for claiming purposes. Often times, however, these tools are only being used on accounts where the risk of being caught is not significant. (For instance, a mule account running a claiming bot). Is the STF aware of this? Is there any plan to punish those accounts that are associated with accounts that use third party tools? (For instance, either punishing entire alliances that take advantage of a mule with a third party claiming tool, or doing some extended tracking on the credit card/IP address of the account that was cheating in order to punish other characters owned by that player)
    http://www.court-records.net/animati...nfident(b).gif
    Not everyone in the alliance may be aware nor agree of this third pt mule. Wouldn't be fair at all to take out the entire group, many people play at wireless cafe's or other places with public wifi so I don't think going by IP should be viable either. As for credit cards, as far as I'm aware of, they do take out all the accounts associated with that card when one is caught.

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    Re: Question Discussion

    EDIT:
    lol, my bad. Pressed reply in the wrong tab of IE.

  12. #92
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Amok
    Question 1
    I've com across threads regarding older content like Garrison, Eco-warrior, Expeditionary Force, Beastmen Treasure (goblin npc's in certain zones on certain days) and there are quite a few people that would like to see changes/updates to these. In some case moreso than new events/content/battles.
    Are there any plans to update old content that has become unpopular?

    Question 2
    There is a tendency to equip ones character to have either high Attack or Accuracy and then compensate the other with food. Resulting in setups involving Acc. gear + Atk. food or Atk. gear + Acc. food. The game includes many 'middle of the road' gear that tries to balance these two stats, however there is no food that does the same. Are there any plans to add food items that provide a decent percentual boost to both accuracy and attack?

    Question 3
    Assault is my favorite event in FFXI because (most of) its rewards are based on the amount of work you put into it. Earning points which you then use to purchase items is something we see in Limbus (coins) and Einherjar (ampoules) as well. There are still many parts of the game where rewards are completely random and uncontrolled which only leads to frustration. The plus side of points is that players using all kinds of jobs get a reward for participating in the same event. (This is more of a suggestion than a question) Can you add ways to "earn"/"save up for" items that are currently luck based?
    If you're asking the questions you're in the wrong thread. Though the last question is really good, imo.

  13. #93
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ronin sparthos
    Issue is mainly selling the idea to try Einherjar again to the community, obviously they put alot of work into it - but it could be more appealing with more adjustments. Its just silly that the alternative to kings is way harder (scaled vs kings) and doesnt reward half as much instantly.
    I dunno about you, but seeing things like This Thread and hearing people talk about it seems like a good selling point. I've yet to hear someone be disappointed with the actual Odin fight. Disappointed with the drops, sure. But the fight itself everyone seems to enjoy.

    And like Jay said, our attendance has went way up since our Odin fight as well. Pretty much the same numbers he listed: ~22 for Odin fight, and we had 36 last night for Tier 2.

    Also, look how many times Lunarians (I think it's them) have beat Odin and look at their numbers.

    By scaled, it sounds like people want to be able to do it with 6 people. Sorry, but that's Nyzul. Or you can attempt to low man Kings. The lowest amount of scaling I'd support, is being able to do it with 16-18. I'm 100% against being able to win with 12 or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronin sparthos
    No ones doing Einherjar because the drop rates are so fantastically low that most people are turned away and write off the event as a waste of time. The issue stands that if you want band-aid the issue of kings, you need to appeal to people and not just a super-small community that is content with the event as of now.

    The drop rates on abjuration chamber for chamber is low and the sub-rewards from defeating the much harder than kings bosses is pathetic, killing Fafnir and get a better overall reward even if 0 abjurations dropped off him vs 2 mauls and a hide off the Wivre boss is sad and demoralizing for many a linkshell. Einherjar is a large scale event, much like Dynamis before it but lacks any sort of 'consolation prizes' (dynamis features currency win or lose) if you lose or any sub-rewards for everyone doing work but isnt lotting that rare abjuration drop when it comes - the ichor rewards are long-term investments in the least.

    No one is asking for a 'free-pass to kings', einherjar is quite difficult and is on a 3 day timer which limits abusing it but for crying out loud, throw some kinda rewards in there win-or-lose (even if it boils down to only ichor if you fail) and allow people to see Odin but also get some form of reward along the path - and a long path Einherjar is.
    Yes, the drop rates on the way to Odin are very low, but think of it this way:

    Consider each tier as an NQ spawn. You do them to get to the HQ, which in this case is Odin. Then, you're guarenteed 4-5 drops (don't think I've seen less/more).

    I'm sure many of us have seen Day 10 Adamantoise pop. It doesn't drop anything really good aside from occassional Egg, but people still camp it in hopes of getting that HQ. When the HQ does pop, you're not even guarenteed to get claim, with Einherjar, you are.

    Another high risk-low reward event that people still do: Dynamis - Tavnazia.

    I agree completely about compensation for losing though. Even if it's just 100 Ampoules (like Assault's 100 points for failure), it's still a welcome change.

  14. #94
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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomiko
    Yes, the drop rates on the way to Odin are very low, but think of it this way:

    Consider each tier as an NQ spawn. You do them to get to the HQ, which in this case is Odin. Then, you're guarenteed 4-5 drops (don't think I've seen less/more).

    I'm sure many of us have seen Day 10 Adamantoise pop. It doesn't drop anything really good aside from occassional Egg, but people still camp it in hopes of getting that HQ. When the HQ does pop, you're not even guarenteed to get claim, with Einherjar, you are.

    Another high risk-low reward event that people still do: Dynamis - Tavnazia.

    I agree completely about compensation for losing though. Even if it's just 100 Ampoules (like Assault's 100 points for failure), it's still a welcome change.
    Not sure your comparisons are going to work.
    Alot of HNM LS' dont worry about Day1-4 NQ, and they just go right for the HQ. And if were comparing low tiers as NQs, then where are the Ridill's, Abjs, Moneydrops and Thundercoulds at? Usually NQs always drop something of worth to someone; low tier drops rarely have anything. Ive won Einherjar around 20 times (mostly all tier 1), and ive yet to see anything drop ever. Now maybe if the drop rates were increased or something.

    With HNM you may not be guaranteed a claim, but youll usually always get something worthwhile. With Einherjar, you may be guaranteed the claim, but usually youll never get anything good, that is if you win and dont get screwed over by 12 ghost, 12 elementals and a madrid.

    Im not really sure people actually go and plan religiously for Tav either, it's usually one of those "Well, looks like we have a real low turnout tonight, might as well do a quick run though" type of thing. I dont think people would to Tav more than once a month, so thats 1m a month, when getting to Odin (if you win all of them) costs 1,800,000.

    Einherjar would be better if it had a better low end reward system. Yes, Odin drops (if you win..) are very nice (atleast the 100% on old abj thing, wtf at the new abj stats..), but there should be better rates on the lower tiers. Hell, atleast when you do sky/sea mobs to get to the 'boss' the lower tiers mobs drop something worthwhile. Not to mention it takes 30 wins to get a purchasable item (and arnt very good), assualt has better rewards and you can get the top items in about 15 runs.

    Getting to Odin takes about as much time to get to as it would to take you to claim an HQ HNM, it takes a minimum of 30(? (and thats if you win)) days to get worth while drops, when theoretically you have the chance at getting around 18 (every 5 days x3 (rough estimate)) HQ king claims. True most LSs do both, but in the state Einherjar is in currently, it is in no way shape or form better, or a replace for Kings.


    Really had not intention to go on that long, but damn, guess my hate for Einherjar brought up some other stuff.

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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Chaos
    Question 1

    It seems that even though you had changed certain Notorious Monsters (Leaping Lizzy, Valkurm Emperor, and the like) to dropping Rare/EX equivalents, people surprisingly enough, are still using third party tools to rob other legit players of oppertunities. It makes no sense that people are being outclaimed for a(n) item that has no financial value, so my question to you:

    Would it be possible to turn some of those notorious monsters from delayed lottery spawns to possible "???" pops? (IE: a ??? moves between the beaches every 30 minutes on Valkurm Dunes, and trading a stack of insect wings prompts a message "You've enraged the emperor!" or something like that, and the monster comes out claimed to the trader.) Keep the drop rate the same, just give more people a chance to actually claim the creature themselves.
    Please don't waste precious interview time with: Q_Q I still don't have emp. pin or leaping boots hawp.

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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Chaos
    Question 1

    It seems that even though you had changed certain Notorious Monsters (Leaping Lizzy, Valkurm Emperor, and the like) to dropping Rare/EX equivalents, people surprisingly enough, are still using third party tools to rob other legit players of oppertunities. It makes no sense that people are being outclaimed for a(n) item that has no financial value, so my question to you:

    Would it be possible to turn some of those notorious monsters from delayed lottery spawns to possible "???" pops? (IE: a ??? moves between the beaches every 30 minutes on Valkurm Dunes, and trading a stack of insect wings prompts a message "You've enraged the emperor!" or something like that, and the monster comes out claimed to the trader.) Keep the drop rate the same, just give more people a chance to actually claim the creature themselves.
    Well, people might be camping these items so that they can sell their AH-able counterparts, so there is financial value to those people.

    I just don't understand why some ??? popped NMs are not 100% drops. There is no reason for the fact that I am 0/7 on Swift Belt, especially considering all that you have to do to even be able to pop those NMs.

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    Re: Question Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by SephirothYuyX
    Not sure your comparisons are going to work.
    Alot of HNM LS' dont worry about Day1-4 NQ, and they just go right for the HQ. And if were comparing low tiers as NQs, then where are the Ridill's, Abjs, Moneydrops and Thundercoulds at? Usually NQs always drop something of worth to someone; low tier drops rarely have anything. Ive won Einherjar around 20 times (mostly all tier 1), and ive yet to see anything drop ever. Now maybe if the drop rates were increased or something.

    With HNM you may not be guaranteed a claim, but youll usually always get something worthwhile. With Einherjar, you may be guaranteed the claim, but usually youll never get anything good, that is if you win and dont get screwed over by 12 ghost, 12 elementals and a madrid.

    Im not really sure people actually go and plan religiously for Tav either, it's usually one of those "Well, looks like we have a real low turnout tonight, might as well do a quick run though" type of thing. I dont think people would to Tav more than once a month, so thats 1m a month, when getting to Odin (if you win all of them) costs 1,800,000.

    Einherjar would be better if it had a better low end reward system. Yes, Odin drops (if you win..) are very nice (atleast the 100% on old abj thing, wtf at the new abj stats..), but there should be better rates on the lower tiers. Hell, atleast when you do sky/sea mobs to get to the 'boss' the lower tiers mobs drop something worthwhile. Not to mention it takes 30 wins to get a purchasable item (and arnt very good), assualt has better rewards and you can get the top items in about 15 runs.

    Getting to Odin takes about as much time to get to as it would to take you to claim an HQ HNM, it takes a minimum of 30(? (and thats if you win)) days to get worth while drops, when theoretically you have the chance at getting around 18 (every 5 days x3 (rough estimate)) HQ king claims. True most LSs do both, but in the state Einherjar is in currently, it is in no way shape or form better, or a replace for Kings.


    Really had not intention to go on that long, but damn, guess my hate for Einherjar brought up some other stuff.
    Many LS's don't have experience killing HNMs. Most LS's only get that experience doing the Apollyon King run, or KS99s.

    I've seen quite a few new LS's attempt to kill King Behemoth and Fafnir/Nidhogg and fail. It's a much different environment when you have 5x the amount of people around you than you did when practicing, and the terrain is vastly different. Anybody can claim a King, but it's how they handle the fight and their knowledge of the situation that leads to victory. Unfortunately, many new LS's become too excited or anxious when they get claim that they are overwhelmed with emotion that clouds the mind.

    It's amazing how many people can't kite a King Behemoth, it's amazing how many people flail a Fafnir, it's amazing how many people don't know what to do with Meteor, it's amazing how many people stand in breath range, it's amazing how many people melee Aspidochelone in its shell.

    Einherjar is a completely different experience. Instead of only able to use 18 people, you are granted access with 36 people, plenty to decimate any chamber. You aren't required to use 36 people, nor is it impossible to do without. It requires practice, but everything you fight is a common monster you see in everyday-vana'diel (just higher HP!), so every fight is intuitive, and you most likely already know the behavior of those mobs and what they can do.

    When it comes to Nidhogg and King Behemoth (Aspidochelone in some cases), you aren't guaranteed the win (just like with Odin). Not to mention there are other people out there that are willing to make sure you DON'T get the win. You could theoretically get a Nidhogg every 4 days, or every 6 months. It all depends on your luck as a LS, and your teamwork as a team.

    With Einherjar, you can easily rip through the chambers leading to Odin (Again, 3rd tier is more difficult than the other tiers, no promises if you win or not. My LS has beat 2 of them in a row this week, with one of the bosses being Dvergr [considered the hardest boss of the tier] so they aren't impossible to win). You are GUARANTEED the claim at Odin. You, just like any fight, aren't guaranteed the win, but with the amount of information that has risen (See Tomiko's link to a thread I've mentioned previously), the fight is rather simple and also very fun

    I really think that people should not be worrying about the "nq" prizes. My reasoning of that is because of how common "nq" drops already are (Not talking about how common the drop rate is, but how common the attempt at the drop is). Square Enix will likely NEVER make Ridill or Defending Ring drop from any other mob in the game, and I hope they don't. An increase to abjurations on each chamber would be welcomed!

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    Re: Question Discussion

    I can't help but feel some questions are hopeless. They'd be nice to ask, but you know what answer you'll be getting. Maybe just make a list of suggestions separate.

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    Re: Question Discussion

    I really think that people should not be worrying about the "nq" prizes. My reasoning of that is because of how common "nq" drops already are (Not talking about how common the drop rate is, but how common the attempt at the drop is). Square Enix will likely NEVER make Ridill or Defending Ring drop from any other mob in the game, and I hope they don't. An increase to abjurations on each chamber would be welcomed!
    An increase to abjuration drops is good, and i agree that d.ring and ridill will never EVER EVER drop off anything but Fafnir and KB but simple fix like monsters in Ein dropping something like synthables (Khroma Ore, random stuff) rarely and a boss dropping more worthwhile loot would keep motivation on the upward swing for many groups. (Remember, not everyones doing this with their main HNM LSs so you know... return-factor is nurtured through drops that could be sold/split for example)

    That and Ein would get some more fans, especially if it could be something worth peoples times (if no abjs, some loot for going and possible shots at Odin down the line)

    Difficulty isnt the factor, people ASKED SE to make a higher tier event with abjurations... the issue is convincing your 20-36man group to keep coming back when the boss drops are garbage, the exp scrolls are laughable and the one abjuration drop goes to someone that then quits/bails/loses sight of the goal.

    Oh... and before its stated: 'Bring Kings into 2008' please. Merits and Players skills/abilities are going through the roof - lets see some scaling on the monster side for crying out loud. 'We want players to be intimidated by these monsters' - yeah SE? well make Aspidochelone strike fear into my heart.

  20. #100
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    Re: Question Discussion

    I 100% agree certain items should also be dropped (As I said earlier, Sheep Pet will make money items drop).

    Khroma Ore, Star Saphires, Behemoth Hides, Cerberus Hides, etc would be an excellent add on to treasure drops. But prepare to see the prices of many of them steadily decline unless SE introduces new gear using those synthable items.

    http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1...6191055sx3.jpg

    This should happen at least 50% of the time! This is the result of getting the Sheep Pet (Rather than one of the two birds or the Tiger).

    Here is the thread: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewt...p?f=24&t=29995

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