Jailer of Love Questions/Help

[Ashky]

Last week, my LS fought our first ever JoL. We did pretty well considering it was a 4 hour + fight but I think we still have a lot to learn about it. We wiped eventually (30%) because honestly I really felt like everyone was worn out and tired of fighting it because it was going so slow. Originally my LS leader wanted to straight tank it in it's melee range... Yea, I know. We had 24 people total roughly and only 4 BLMs.


Anyway, I have read just about every thread I can find via search on it but even after I got the LS and the leader to listen to me on how to tank it, it still took forever because we only used BLMs and SMNs on it because the LS leader was scared to death to give it TP. So, my questions are as follows:


1. I know the best tanks for this are "spam tanks" like a NIN/DRK, PLD/RDM, or PLD/DRK (I couldn't get him to believe this either). But is it possible to stand far enough away from the melee'able center as a tank so that you don't get hit with any TP moves (including charm because that is what he was most afraid of)?


2. Is it also possible that with the right positioning, the melee on it won't get hit with the -Ga spells it uses on the tanks while melee'ing it?


3. Is the charm AoE or single target and is it a TP move? Meaning that if number 2 is true, as long as the tank does not lose hate, no melee should ever get charmed?


That's all I can think of for now. Any help is much appreciated.

[Suiram]

1. Yes, with the right positioning, he won't even try to use anything but Florescence (his only self-targetted TP move) if the tanks have hate, and if the tanks lose hate to a melee and he does an AoE damage WS, the tanks won't get hit with it.

2. Melee won't get hit by damage -ga spells, but I think if melee are standing on the side of JoL closest to tanks there is still a chance they will get hit by the wider-radius status -gas (could be wrong on this though).

3. Charm is AoE, but Tanks won't get hit, however they will have however melee beating on them (unless the BLU in your tank PT flashes them!)

[Stolin]

1. Its highly recommended that you stay out of it's melee range. Theres no reason to stay under him.

2. Its possible and very easy to pull off.

3. Its AoE charm on whoever is close to Jol.

[Kaeko]

Looks like your biggest issue is charm.

You can actually avoid ALL TP moves on JoL other than Boost. I don't know if this is a bug or what, but JoL won't use any TP move other than Boost if its hate is fixed on 1 target and never switches. We use a RDM/NIN solo tank now for this and just make sure he keeps himself at the top of the hate list - can go the whole fight only seeing boosts.

Can't help you with the ga3s since we manaburn it.

[Ashky]

Looks like your biggest issue is charm.

You can actually avoid ALL TP moves on JoL other than Boost. I don't know if this is a bug or what, but JoL won't use any TP move other than Boost if its hate is fixed on 1 target and never switches. We use a RDM/NIN solo tank now for this and just make sure he keeps himself at the top of the hate list - can go the whole fight only seeing boosts.

Can't help you with the ga3s since we manaburn it.

So if it switches targets (even from tank to tank right next to each other still out of his TP move range) he can then charm someone?

[Dammerung]

Made a picture for you, pretty sure the distances are right. Melee will get hit by AoE debuffs, but I don't think there is a way to avoid that. They won't get hit by -ga3 which is all that matters really. -ga Debuffs are either 15' or 17.5', I forget.. so just make sure your tank support are far enough back to not get hit by that. The bard can go in the middle to sing for the tanks as songs have at least a 10' radius; WHM can also do 1 barspell and hit both tanks. I do suggest you have 2 tanks, unless you have a puller for the summons, as astral flow>aerial collisionx3 can be painful. Could probably put the BLM on the other side too if you wanted.

The most effective party setup that we have done so far was 2 DD4 COR BRD parties then the tank party in the ally, then BLMs outside nuking summons. Few mages also outside giving the DD support. Our kill time with that was ~30min, can probably be improved but I'm happy with it.

TP moves are determined by distance. If it never leaves hate on the tanks, it will only use boost. If hate shifts to melee under it, it can use all its TP moves, including charm (will only hit those directly under it, and it usually wears off before the melee go to hit the tank).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/Ellatrix/JoL.png

[Ashky]

Made a picture for you, pretty sure the distances are right. Melee will get hit by AoE debuffs, but I don't think there is a way to avoid that. They won't get hit by -ga3 which is all that matters really. -ga Debuffs are either 15' or 17.5', I forget.. so just make sure your tank support are far enough back to not get hit by that. The bard can go in the middle to sing for the tanks as songs have at least a 10' radius; WHM can also do 1 barspell and hit both tanks. I do suggest you have 2 tanks, unless you have a puller for the summons, as astral flow>aerial collisionx3 can be painful. Could probably put the BLM on the other side too if you wanted.

The most effective party setup that we have done so far was 2 DD4 COR BRD parties then the tank party in the ally, then BLMs outside nuking summons. Few mages also outside giving the DD support. Our kill time with that was ~30min, can probably be improved but I'm happy with it.

TP moves are determined by distance. If it never leaves hate on the tanks, it will only use boost. If hate shifts to melee under it, it can use all its TP moves, including charm (will only hit those directly under it, and it usually wears off before the melee go to hit the tank).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/Ellatrix/JoL.png

You sir, are a pimp! Thanks so much!


Edit: This is EXACTLY what I had in my mind, but I was going to have a hard time trying to explain this with words to my LS leader. This picture says it all. Thanks again!

[Suiram]

You can actually avoid ALL TP moves on JoL other than Boost. I don't know if this is a bug or what, but JoL won't use any TP move other than Boost if its hate is fixed on 1 target and never switches. We use a RDM/NIN solo tank now for this and just make sure he keeps himself at the top of the hate list - can go the whole fight only seeing boosts.

I don't think it's a bug, I think a lot of mobs like JoL won't attempt to use any TP moves that can't reach the tank when they have self-target buff available. That's why positioning close enough to avoid movement to you or draw-in and far enough to avoid any damage TP moves/charm makes him spam florescence.

[Ashky]

So the correct positioning is actually just outside the "hood" of JoL? That's where we messed up. The other tanks and myself were standing a good bit out from the center, but we were still under the hood... Thanks for all the replies!

[Suiram]

So the correct positioning is actually just outside the "hood" of JoL? That's where we messed up. The other tanks and myself were standing a good bit out from the center, but we were still under the hood... Thanks for all the replies!

If you are tanking him at the mouth of the alcove as illustrated in that diagram and which I also recommend, just have whoever pops it keep running until he draws in, then stand just inside the point where they were drawn in and that should be fine. Take a few steps forward if draw-in reoccurs, or take a step back if he's using TP moves other than boost. Or use distance plugin but I don't so I don't know the #s.

[Dammerung]

More pictures!

Front
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/ ... 173259.png
Back
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/ ... 182717.png

[Kaeko]

Looks like your biggest issue is charm.

You can actually avoid ALL TP moves on JoL other than Boost. I don't know if this is a bug or what, but JoL won't use any TP move other than Boost if its hate is fixed on 1 target and never switches. We use a RDM/NIN solo tank now for this and just make sure he keeps himself at the top of the hate list - can go the whole fight only seeing boosts.

Can't help you with the ga3s since we manaburn it.

So if it switches targets (even from tank to tank right next to each other still out of his TP move range) he can then charm someone?

From my experience, we've tried putting 2 tanks on top of each other and having them both spam. It TP moves when we do this. I don't think distance is quite the factor on this. Maybe we messed this up somehow though.

I'm not sure exactly why this works, but we just go ahead and solo tank it. It only get dangerous when you have something like summons > astral flows > aerial collision x3.

[Suiram]

From my experience, we've tried putting 2 tanks on top of each other and having them both spam. It TP moves when we do this. I don't think distance is quite the factor on this. Maybe we messed this up somehow though.

I'm not sure exactly why this works, but we just go ahead and solo tank it. It only get dangerous when you have something like summons > astral flows > aerial collision x3.

I don't know what is up with your JoLs, but we typically have two tanks, and the entire tank PT (minus the WHM in dark/earth modes) forms a line perpendicular to the one between them and JoL, and as long as the tanks are the proper distance from it he won't draw in or use anything other than Boost regardless of which tank has hate.

[Kaeko]

From my experience, we've tried putting 2 tanks on top of each other and having them both spam. It TP moves when we do this. I don't think distance is quite the factor on this. Maybe we messed this up somehow though.

I'm not sure exactly why this works, but we just go ahead and solo tank it. It only get dangerous when you have something like summons > astral flows > aerial collision x3.

I don't know what is up with your JoLs, but we typically have two tanks, and the entire tank PT (minus the WHM in dark/earth modes) forms a line perpendicular to the one between them and JoL, and as long as the tanks are the proper distance from it he won't draw in or use anything other than Boost regardless of which tank has hate.

I'll have to note their exact distances next time we do this and try 2 again. 2 tanks makes this much easier when you're doing this at 4 AM...

[Meloria]

For smns we keep blms out of the ally with a rdm/nin to diaga pull. We typically bring about 5 blms. Can easily -aga down smns with 4 blms, but this way if someone gets a weird resist or needs an afk we're still covered.

We use 2 tanks, typically plds, but have used nins and blu before. They stand as far away as possible without getting drawn in. We pull JoL out of the alcove as far as it will go. If your tank does get hit with charm remember its a hate reset move so have your dd back off a bit. It doesn't last long. Seems like once the charmed player is alseep that charm wears off a few seconds later.

[ad3285]

We use 2 RDM/NIN as tank as they have more MDB that will help with -ga spells.

We have 1 or 2 BLM that throw nukes on JoL. Slowly dot it.
We have DRK/SAM (GS or Scythe) WAR/SAM (GA) SAM/WAR (GK).
Meditate and run in WS then run out. Wait for timer, rinse and repeat.

We another add PT consist of 5BLMs and 1RDM/NIN to deal with pets.
Summon Pets > RDM run in Diaga to pull it away from Tank > BLM -ga3 asap to kill the pets.

[Kainstryder]

Were you using the trick of holding 2 sharks so that only 1 was popping each summon? That makes low manning it a breeze and lets you focus more on JoL. Stick 2 NINs to hold them, throw them a RDM and you're good.

[Ashky]

Were you using the trick of holding 2 sharks so that only 1 was popping each summon? That makes low manning it a breeze and lets you focus more on JoL. Stick 2 NINs to hold them, throw them a RDM and you're good.

Yeah, I was one of the NINs doing this. But did you see the part where I said it was a 4 hour fight. I bet you I help a shark for well over an hour... It sucked so hard. I don't mind doing it, but 30 mins - 1 hour kill prease!

[Nicholette]

Does the charm TP move only happen while it's in light mode? or can it happen in any?

[Lordwafik]

Hi, when I did this fight the other day for the first in a while, people on bg irc were very helpful to point some tips to us :

PLD/RDM = hueg hate for this fight, especially if you can give them gjallarballad, if not, ballad/refresh is fine. They get a bunch of spells/fastcast/mdb etc, and by the time their hate caps or gets really high, they can just sit there and spam nothing but dispel to counter the boosting.

Melee are fine to have on JOL, so long as they're positioned correctly like in the pictures shown in the topic. They will get smacked occasionally in this fight, it is ok, nothing wrong with it, just heal them anytime this happens and the pld/rdm will get hate back. If it's charmga, you're lucky, just have a bard quickly horde everyone, and then you all get lucky with that free hate reset! Remember, non-fluroscence TP moves only happen when non tanks get hate, while it's not frequent, it'll happen here and there, but you just gotta learn to deal with it.