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  1. #1
    Salvage Bans
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    Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    People seem to assume that Qutrub have the same damage modifiers as other bony mobs, but I don't think that's really the case. The Vanamon table (linky) lists them as taking +100% damage from all physical damage types.

    Also, I parsed an Arrapago run yesterday. Comparing the THF's average damage with the DRK's:

    Qutrub: THF 54.95 DRK 248.56 (THF doing 22% of DRK's damage per hit)
    Lamia: THF 31.08 DRK 145.6 (21%)
    Draugar: THF 19.18 DRK 144.4 (13.2%).
    Draugar, corrected for skeleton damage penalties: THF 38.40 DRK 165.03 (23%)

    It seems pretty clear that the Arrapago Qutrub do not have the same damage mods as Skeletons. Which makes it less important to give the chest Incus cells to MNK, and more reasonable to give them to THF or other DD.

  2. #2

    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Valyana
    It seems pretty clear that the Arrapago Qutrub do not have the same damage mods as Skeletons. Which makes it less important to give the chest Incus cells to MNK, and more reasonable to give them to THF or other DD.
    Well, yeah. If your MNKs use Spartan Cesti or something equally shitty you should hand off Incus to another person. But who's trying to get Usukane before Destroyers?

  3. #3
    Chram
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    you give to monk first because they (surprise) got opa first and giving them (the ones most likely to hit and able to ws that is) weapons means more damage.


    fuck damage penalties and shit like that, you're at risk of overthinking your cells.

  4. #4
    Ranger
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    ridills up destroyers down

  5. #5
    New Merits
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Looks about right.

    If they were "squishy but still skeletons" then we'd have 2.0 physical damage multiplier followed by a 0.5 piercing multiplier for a grand total of x1.0 damage. But seeing as how dagger often hits over the neutral damage cap, they must be simply "squishy".

    As for Salvage strategy, I won't touch that with a 10 foot pole since each group is different.

  6. #6
    Salvage Bans
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Main tank gets weapon/abi first, of course. But then I'd give weapon/abi to SAM/DRK/WAR over 2nd MNK.

    I wouldn't give weapon to THF until they have ability, since even though cell drop rate sucks, I don't think it's low enough for TH+1 to make up for slower kills, and THF damage totally sucks without ability.

  7. #7
    Chram
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonomaa
    ridills up destroyers down
    yeah, I'd agree with giving to a ridill or relic before the second monk.

  8. #8
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amele
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonomaa
    ridills up destroyers down
    yeah, I'd agree with giving to a ridill or relic before the second monk.
    I have mandau, but still give cells to MNK MNK SAM first. MNK for tanking purposes, helps them hold hate, SAM because soboro is rape. In a zone like Zhayolm I wouldnt mind giving other melees incus first, but in a zone like arrapago I wouldnt dare give them to others first considering how some of our runs have ended up in 1 incus but 10 castellanus.

  9. #9

    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    I'm not sure I agree 100% with that. Silver Seas we do give MNKs the chest weapons because A. on the first floor I am usually training, and the THF is backing me up if they come back clumped, so the weapon cells often don't even get put to use if we get them, and because B. by the time the floor is over we will all have weapons anyway for the 2nd floor when we do put them to good use. But for Arrapago, I would think that assuming you do get completely boned on cells--lets say your only incus the entire run are from the chests--the run is going to go comparatively less shitty with less-effective MNKs, than it would with two completely ineffective melee (assuming the THF isn't a good salvage THF who capped H2H pre-chest update, but even then there's a big difference I would think because of the THF H2H skill cap). Anyhow that's just my thinking on the subject, maybe there's a good argument against that. Zhayolm I agree it doesn't matter since 4 people have weapons after two rooms, and Bhaflau they never really seem to be in short supply either, even though you could theoretically get screwed by Bifrons.

  10. #10
    Nidhogg
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    My group has a Relic Sam and a Mandau THF in it, if I'm MNK I'll see the Incus after both of them, since even if I get an Incus our SAM does most of the tanking, but he's good with the whole Seigan/TE thing as it is. All groups are different, this works for us.

  11. #11
    Sassy Tyrant
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    In my personal opinion, I think melee with 0 h2h skill should get weapons before MNK. It will definitely help with killing the monsters faster.

  12. #12
    Puppetmaster
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falisa
    In my personal opinion, I think melee with 0 h2h skill should get weapons before MNK. It will definitely help with killing the monsters faster.
    Dangerous to talk in such absolute terms. You can't imagine a scenario where the total damage output would increase more giving MNK weapons than any melee with 0 h2h?

    First chest Incus Incus STR Back/waist Legs/feet Abilities....and the magic and w/e

    So you have your main MNK with +20% haste, counterstance, STR cell and *abilities*...and either he will get 29 base damage or 47. I will quit ffxi if giving a MNK with all that +18 damage doesn't increase kill speed quicker than giving a no STR, no haste, no WSing THF his dagger.

    My basic rule is unless you have a *damned* good reason, give everything to the strongest person. If I have 20% haste and you have 0%...giving me 5% more helps more than giving you 5%. Its just the way it works. Spreading the wealth and sharing cells is a failing strat.

  13. #13
    Relic Weapons
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryda
    My basic rule is unless you have a *damned* good reason, give everything to the strongest person.
    I agree. However, there are exceptions. For arrapago and bhaflau I'm usually tempted to give a THF the knife first, despite whether or not you would consider the +1 TH that usefull. I've been screwed a couple times where SJs weren't dropping on first floor in Bhaflau, and it made us change routes on 2F to be able to get SJs (normally we go NE on 2F). For Zhayolm and Silver Sea, screw wasting a weapon cell on a thf right away if you can boost your mnk's damage alot more.

  14. #14
    Cerberus
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilswitche
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryda
    My basic rule is unless you have a *damned* good reason, give everything to the strongest person.
    I agree. However, there are exceptions. For arrapago and bhaflau I'm usually tempted to give a THF the knife first, despite whether or not you would consider the +1 TH that usefull. I've been screwed a couple times where SJs weren't dropping on first floor in Bhaflau, and it made us change routes on 2F to be able to get SJs (normally we go NE on 2F). For Zhayolm and Silver Sea, screw wasting a weapon cell on a thf right away if you can boost your mnk's damage alot more.
    I'd still think anytime there is an amount of uncertainty with cell drops giving THF weapon for TH+1 would be more useful just because of the increased chance at receiving a cell.
    1 less mob to kill because you got the drop saves more time than giving any melee a weapon before a thf could do.

  15. #15
    Tom Wilson will never be good.
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Relic > Ridill > Monk > wait in line. People really don't get how big a difference Destroyers make, there is a reason why people have said they are broken. If your Monk sucks and/or is using some other h2h then yea, fuck them. 90% of runs you get all your melee Incus cells w/i 10m anyways, so who really cares?

  16. #16
    Sandworm Swallows
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    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Judai
    Relic > Ridill > Monk > wait in line. People really don't get how big a difference Destroyers make, there is a reason why people have said they are broken. If your Monk sucks and/or is using some other h2h then yea, fuck them. 90% of runs you get all your melee Incus cells w/i 10m anyways, so who really cares?
    We have two BB MNK's, and we always give first two Incus to Two-handers or THF (if it's a TH relevant-zone). And it doesn't really matter if you MNK sucks or not when you are totally gimped at the start. I just can't really understand the math that leads one to conclude how 1 MNK with Destroyers + 1 SAM with no weapon is more damage than 1 MNK without Destroys + 1 SAM with GKT.

  17. #17

    Re: Do Qutrub really have piercing penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree
    Quote Originally Posted by Judai
    Relic > Ridill > Monk > wait in line. People really don't get how big a difference Destroyers make, there is a reason why people have said they are broken. If your Monk sucks and/or is using some other h2h then yea, fuck them. 90% of runs you get all your melee Incus cells w/i 10m anyways, so who really cares?
    We have two BB MNK's, and we always give first two Incus to Two-handers or THF (if it's a TH relevant-zone). And it doesn't really matter if you MNK sucks or not when you are totally gimped at the start. I just can't really understand the math that leads one to conclude how 1 MNK with Destroyers + 1 SAM with no weapon is more damage than 1 MNK without Destroys + 1 SAM with GKT.
    Because counterstance is hax on floor 1 (especially with phalanx2).