64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

**Sesshoumaru** · 2008-03-05 23:55

Here is a simple question that may or may not require a complicated answer.

What is the difference between xp/vista 32bit and the 64bit counterpart?

I know you need 64bit in order to take advantage of 4gigs of ram but are there any other benefits or downsides to using 64bit?

What can you do on 64bit that you can't do on 32bit, or the other way around?

Can you get 64bit on laptops?

Is there a noticeable performance difference from running a system with 4 gis of ram and 64bit OS when compared to a 32bit with say 2-3gigs of ram?

I won't really be using the system I'm thinking of building for FFXI so I'm not limited by some of the prevalent Vista/graphic card issues an FFXI playing system would have to face.

currently I have been playing around with a few builds which run from 3-$5K. (Go go tax return and not being in any debt ^^)

Case ( Thermaltake Armor Jr. Gaming Case Black )
Case Lighting ( None or maybe not but probably none )
Power Supply ( 750 Watt Thermaltake Toughpower W0117RU Power Supply )
Processor ( Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6700 (4x 2.66GHz/8MB L2 Cache/1066FSB) )
Processor Cooling ( Thermaltake MaxOrb CPU Cooling Fan System Kit )
Motherboard (Asus P5N-T Deluxe NVIDIA nForce 780i SLI Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0, IEEE-1394, 3-Way PCI-E M )
Memory ( 4096MB [2048MB X2] DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory Module Mushkin High Performance II (HP2) w/Heat Spreader )
or [1024MB X4] DDR2-1066 PC2 8500 Memory Module Corsair Dominator
Video Card ( 2x NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX 768MB w/DVI + TV Out Video )
Hard Drive ( 1.5TB (750GB x2) HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 16M Cache] )
CD-RW/DVD-RW Drive ( Sony Dual Format/Double Layer 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Black, possibly x2 )
Sound Card ( Onboard )
Network Card: Looking at the Killer line.
Physics card: ???

I like the case and its an older case, thus cheaper then many out there.
I was thinking that 750 power supply might be overkill and maybe I could go with something a little lower but I'm not sure.
I was thinking about goign with the Q6700 and over clocking it to 3.0GHZ range( less then a 15% over clock)
Cooling wise liquid would probably be best but I'm not sure how to mess with it so I was thinking with only a 15% over clock air would be fine.
Considering how I'm only shooting for a 15% over clock I'm not too sure if I should go crazy with the ram.
Vid card might be a bit much but I was considering goign with the new 9600GTS and then riding out the whole vid card thing for a year and seeing how things develop then sinking in the big bucks for a more stable card.
Hard drives will probably be seagate and might even just get 1 750 for now.
Now for the 2 things which I probably won't even bother with but was thinking about, a killer netcard and a physix card.

One of the biggest problems I have seen to date with using multicore systems and older applications is the whole maximum utilization of a single core while the other 1-3 don't get touched, it might just be me but this seems to be the case with FFXI, thus to avoid this in the future I was seeing the killer card, and to a much lesser degree a physix card, as a way to keep a single core from getting super taxed. a killer card is suppose to offer 400mhz dedicated to handling network traffic. Thus when playing a mmo with the reasonable overclock and the network card, should the system only use a single core, I'd be looking at 3.0-3.4 GHZ.

Please feel free to point out any blatant errors in logic or otherwise and offer alternatives to any of the listed parts or reasons to wait on getting X part because something much better is suppose to come out in a month or so.

Things to note:

1) The system will have to last for at least 2 years as a kick ass / decent gaming rig. ( wife gets to use next years return for herself

)
2) It has to be able to run a lot of programs at one time, A LOT! ( thus the ram issue )
3) Can't go above $5k, prefer it to be about $3.6k (looking to upgrade my monitor and sound system also)
4) Able to get at least a 15% over clock, 25% preferred. (I'm new to over clocking so I'm not about to shoot for the limits)

**Cephius** · 2008-03-06 00:30

About to go to bed but...

You'll probably want a 1000W power supply with that rig, especially if you decide to overclock. I have a 750 but your video cards and hard drives will suck a lot more power than what I have.

I just built a system myself, and I love the Antec 900 case. It has TONS of cooling, my Q6600 (Zalman 9700 HSF) is overclocked right now and stable at 3.2Ghz and doesn't get above ~55C under load, and its a constant 70F in my room. You don't need water cooling to OC the quad cores, I haven't tried yet but supposedly 3.6Ghz isn't stretching it with just air cooling. There's a great guide here about overclocking the quad cores on a EVGA 780i mobo. That brings me to another point, I love EVGA, their customer support is WORLDS above Asus and I'd recommend them to you.

Remember it's more efficent to have one small fast drive (I prefer the 150GB 10kRPM Raptor) for a system drive, and use the larger drives for media storage. It's worth it for the extra read/write speed on the faster drives.

Also pick out memory that is on the 780i mobo compatibility list and is SLI ready, this will help you when you go to overclock the system.

As for video card remember the 9600GT is a new line but still a low end card. It's clocks aren't higher than the 8800GT right now. If you really want something better you'll have to wait a bit for better cards, but you should be fine for a couple years with SLI 8800GT/GTS's. I have a 3dmark06 score of around 16000 with 8800GTs in SLI, its very nice.

Other than that, I've never used 64-bit Windows mainly because some applications aren't compatible with it, and I don't like having to scout around for stuff that will work on my system. It's not like there's a huge performance difference between the two anyway. But if you're going for maximum efficiency then yes, I would give the x64 OS a go.

**Sesshoumaru** · 2008-03-07 01:52

Originally Posted by Cephius

That brings me to another point, I love EVGA, their customer support is WORLDS above Asus and I'd recommend them to you.

Remember it's more efficent to have one small fast drive (I prefer the 150GB 10kRPM Raptor) for a system drive, and use the larger drives for media storage. It's worth it for the extra read/write speed on the faster drives.

As for video card remember the 9600GT is a new line but still a low end card. It's clocks aren't higher than the 8800GT right now. If you really want something better you'll have to wait a bit for better cards, but you should be fine for a couple years with SLI 8800GT/GTS's. I have a 3dmark06 score of around 16000 with 8800GTs in SLI, its very nice.

How much of a speed difference are we talking about? am I going to see %10+ faster speed when using an application or playing a game?
I was never one for 10krpm drives, not that I have tried any, I just find it to be a bit much to dedicate a bay and the $$$ for something that wont have a major impact on your system. Not to mention it is 600gigs less than then 7.2krpm HDs. I'd be one for putting that money into a killer network card, unless I'm misinformed and 10krpm drives offer some huge bonuses.

As for vid cards I was looking at the 9600GT as something that offers nice numbers. Also its the latest thing and hopefully because of this might be a tad more future proof then the 8800 lines, I've seen some disheartening results when the current vid cards have been set against such games like Crysis. I dunno maybe it is just me but DX10 and the current cards really don't seem to be getting along as well as I had hoped, I'm still kinda waiting for card that could play Crysis at max settings and not be brought to a crawl. Thus the whole reason why I would look at the 9600 as an interim candidate until Q3 of next year.

**Fallso** · 2008-03-07 03:02

Yeah, use a Zalman as your processor cooler, in my experience you can't get much better (unless you wanna go with water cooling that is!)

**shaddix** · 2008-03-07 05:56

64bit ftw bitches. so far i've had like no issues that are caused by using x64 over x86. 4 gigs of ram yey XD. vista pwns with 4 gigs ofram holy shit. i never have to wait for anything to load since vista loads it into ram beforehand its sick.

oh uhh from what i understand support for x64 xp is not nearly as good as vista

**Reality** · 2008-03-08 02:34

the best air-cooling (heatsink+fan) is the thermalright ultra 120 extreme atm, it doesn't come with a fan (supports 120mm size, holds two fans.. one on each side)

as far as 10k rpm drives (WD Raptors), they are ridiculously fast, partition one of those puppies and put your OS on a small 30-40gig partition, and use the rest for data, and your boot times will be very very fast once you get past all the BIOS shit from the motherboard/chipset POST screens

64bit driver support is leaps and bounds above what it was a couple years ago, so there really isn't any problems going 64bit (which allow you to use 4+ GB of system memory as well), but 32bit applications are about 90% more common

videocard i would go with right now, if you want this rig to seriously last you 2+ years is the 8800 GTS 512MB, or an 8800 GTX if you can find one for sub-$299 USD (if you plan on running 1920x1200 resolution in your games, the 384bit memory interface will actually come out ahead once you turn on AA+AF at those higher resolutions, over the 8800 GT, 8800 GTS 512, 9600GT, and 9800 GTX due to their 256bit interface. they are as fast as the 8800 gtx, and sometimes faster, in lower resolutions though)

hope this helps some

**Cephius** · 2008-03-08 12:03

Originally Posted by Sesshoumaru

Originally Posted by Cephius

That brings me to another point, I love EVGA, their customer support is WORLDS above Asus and I'd recommend them to you.

Remember it's more efficent to have one small fast drive (I prefer the 150GB 10kRPM Raptor) for a system drive, and use the larger drives for media storage. It's worth it for the extra read/write speed on the faster drives.

As for video card remember the 9600GT is a new line but still a low end card. It's clocks aren't higher than the 8800GT right now. If you really want something better you'll have to wait a bit for better cards, but you should be fine for a couple years with SLI 8800GT/GTS's. I have a 3dmark06 score of around 16000 with 8800GTs in SLI, its very nice.

How much of a speed difference are we talking about? am I going to see %10+ faster speed when using an application or playing a game?
I was never one for 10krpm drives, not that I have tried any, I just find it to be a bit much to dedicate a bay and the $$$ for something that wont have a major impact on your system. Not to mention it is 600gigs less than then 7.2krpm HDs. I'd be one for putting that money into a killer network card, unless I'm misinformed and 10krpm drives offer some huge bonuses.

As for vid cards I was looking at the 9600GT as something that offers nice numbers. Also its the latest thing and hopefully because of this might be a tad more future proof then the 8800 lines, I've seen some disheartening results when the current vid cards have been set against such games like Crysis. I dunno maybe it is just me but DX10 and the current cards really don't seem to be getting along as well as I had hoped, I'm still kinda waiting for card that could play Crysis at max settings and not be brought to a crawl. Thus the whole reason why I would look at the 9600 as an interim candidate until Q3 of next year.

I love my raptor, like I said I have a 150 gig for Windows and a seperate 500 gig drive for my data, and my load times are leaps and bounds faster than when I had my 7200 rpm drive. Newegg has them for like 160 dollars or so, I think it's worth it.

I first had a 8800GTS 512MB, and I got a 8800GT via the EVGA step up program, and at least for me it bumped up my 3dmark06 score another 750ish points. I run at 1680x1050 and couldn't be happied with two of them in SLI. Honestly though whatever you can afford with the 8800 or 9600 line will do the job for you.

**levish** · 2008-03-10 09:05

32bit + windows xp will give highest framerate usually

some games will have special 64bit bit modes with extra eye candy but they are few and far between.

**epigram** · 2008-03-11 14:08

The killer nic is absolutely worthless. It's a bunch of hype sold to people who don't have a clue. I would just use the onboard nic. Network games don't use much bandwith anyway, and the only way to really help out your latency is to either tweak your connection between your access point and your provider or change/upgrade your service.

**Sesshoumaru** · 2008-03-12 20:36

1000W power supply
10k rpm drives (WD Raptors)
are so far things which are certain.

I'm still unclear about 64bit vs 32bit, will need a few more answers geared towards this.
Also any particular Rams out their that are just the sex?
any thoughts on physx cards?

**mootsfox** · 2008-03-13 13:10

Originally Posted by Sesshoumaru

1000W power supply
10k rpm drives (WD Raptors)
are so far things which are certain.

I'm still unclear about 64bit vs 32bit, will need a few more answers geared towards this.
Also any particular Rams out their that are just the sex?
any thoughts on physx cards?

Nothing is certain!

64 bit is better if you can deal with a few drivers not having support.

Stay away from Physx cards.

Hold on while I build a rig on newegg.

**mootsfox** · 2008-03-13 13:41

**Auspice** · 2008-03-13 18:43

Originally Posted by mootsfox

Q6600 OEM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115018

Hmm, this should work with my MSI P4nSLI-FI right?
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_sp ... I&class=mb

I'm looking for a relatively cheap way to upgrade my PC to make XI run better. I really don't want to do a full upgrade. I've got a NVidia 6600GT 256mb video card, 2gig of DDR2 PC5300 RAM, and a P4 3.0ghz single core.

EDIT: Wait, -QUAD- core probably isn't supported by my motherboard. Maybe I'll just wait for the new Intel chipsets to come out. :/

**mootsfox** · 2008-03-13 21:36

Originally Posted by Auspice

Originally Posted by mootsfox

Q6600 OEM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115018

Hmm, this should work with my MSI P4nSLI-FI right?
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_sp ... I&class=mb

I'm looking for a relatively cheap way to upgrade my PC to make XI run better. I really don't want to do a full upgrade. I've got a NVidia 6600GT 256mb video card, 2gig of DDR2 PC5300 RAM, and a P4 3.0ghz single core.

EDIT: Wait, -QUAD- core probably isn't supported by my motherboard. Maybe I'll just wait for the new Intel chipsets to come out. :/

There is a slight chance it will work, since your motherboard supports a 1066MHz FSB. However, I'm fairly sure that the NF4 chipset doesn't work with the Core 2 line.

Remember that Final Fantasy only runs on one core, so you would be better off with a E2xxx line, or a E4xxx line CPU. (both are dual cores)

**Auspice** · 2008-03-14 09:53

Originally Posted by mootsfox

Remember that Final Fantasy only runs on one core, so you would be better off with a E2xxx line, or a E4xxx line CPU. (both are dual cores)

Yeah, I forgot about that. So really no point going with a quad core since it'd cost me an assload more, right? So if I upgraded to the E2 or E4 line I wouldn't need to upgrade my motherboard and it should give me a significant boost to how XI runs on my machine or would I also want to invest in more/faster RAM too?

**mootsfox** · 2008-03-14 10:10

Originally Posted by Auspice

Originally Posted by mootsfox

Remember that Final Fantasy only runs on one core, so you would be better off with a E2xxx line, or a E4xxx line CPU. (both are dual cores)

Yeah, I forgot about that. So really no point going with a quad core since it'd cost me an assload more, right? So if I upgraded to the E2 or E4 line I wouldn't need to upgrade my motherboard and it should give me a significant boost to how XI runs on my machine or would I also want to invest in more/faster RAM too?

If you're going to keep asking questions, make your own thread and stop hijacking this one.

But to answer your question, I have doubts to whether any Core 2 Duo/Quad will run on your motherboard. Personally, I wouldn't bet on it. The C2D line runs about twice as fast clock for clock to a P4, per core. So a P4 at 3.0GHz is roughly as fast as a C2D running at 1.5GHz in single threaded apps. In programs that can use more than one core, the C2D would pull ahead a lot. So, a 2.0GHz C2D would provide a significant boost. As for RAM, that depends on how much you have/speed/type/etc. Post that in your thread with more questions if you have them.

**Cephius** · 2008-03-14 12:09

PM me if you still have questions about a new FF rig and i'll split the topic, lets keep this topic about x32 vs x64.

On that note, I found that if you have x32 Vista you can request a x64 CD from Microsoft for about $10, and use your key on that. Worth it if you lost the CD or didn't buy a retail package like I did (even OEM should work with this despite the site saying otherwise)

**mootsfox** · 2008-03-14 13:11

Originally Posted by Cephius

On that note, I found that if you have x32 Vista you can request a x64 CD from Microsoft for about $10, and use your key on that. Worth it if you lost the CD or didn't buy a retail package like I did (even OEM should work with this despite the site saying otherwise)

Note that this won't work for all the versions. I believe that only Premium and Business will allow you to do that. Ultimate comes with both by default.

I don't know the forum rules on piracy, but if you buy an OEM copy of Windows, it is good for ONE and only ONE computer. Changing the motherboard is considered a new computer. Even though you can call the activation line and get a new serial, it is not legal according to the EULA. Just a heads up.

**Cephius** · 2008-03-14 13:50

Originally Posted by mootsfox

Originally Posted by Cephius

On that note, I found that if you have x32 Vista you can request a x64 CD from Microsoft for about $10, and use your key on that. Worth it if you lost the CD or didn't buy a retail package like I did (even OEM should work with this despite the site saying otherwise)

Note that this won't work for all the versions. I believe that only Premium and Business will allow you to do that. Ultimate comes with both by default.

I don't know the forum rules on piracy, but if you buy an OEM copy of Windows, it is good for ONE and only ONE computer. Changing the motherboard is considered a new computer. Even though you can call the activation line and get a new serial, it is not legal according to the EULA. Just a heads up.

That's certainly true, though I'm not sure if you can consider it "piracy". If you call Microsoft and they break their own rules by letting you activate an OEM copy a new computer, that's their fault, not yours. I can quote dozens of different forum posts where people have successfully moved OEM copies multiple times, and those who can't just keep calling Microsoft until they get someone who will give them a activation code. It may be technically illegal, but let me know when someone actually gets prosecuted for it

As in my case, I bought an additional license for Vista, so I have no x64 installation DVD. From what I've heard I should be able to use that key to install x64. I don't really care either way, as I just built this computer and won't need to move the OS anytime soon.

**mootsfox** · 2008-03-14 13:58

Originally Posted by Cephius

Originally Posted by mootsfox

Originally Posted by Cephius

On that note, I found that if you have x32 Vista you can request a x64 CD from Microsoft for about $10, and use your key on that. Worth it if you lost the CD or didn't buy a retail package like I did (even OEM should work with this despite the site saying otherwise)

Note that this won't work for all the versions. I believe that only Premium and Business will allow you to do that. Ultimate comes with both by default.

I don't know the forum rules on piracy, but if you buy an OEM copy of Windows, it is good for ONE and only ONE computer. Changing the motherboard is considered a new computer. Even though you can call the activation line and get a new serial, it is not legal according to the EULA. Just a heads up.

That's certainly true, though I'm not sure if you can consider it "piracy". If you call Microsoft and they break their own rules by letting you activate an OEM copy a new computer, that's their fault, not yours. I can quote dozens of different forum posts where people have successfully moved OEM copies multiple times, and those who can't just keep calling Microsoft until they get someone who will give them a activation code. It may be technically illegal, but let me know when someone actually gets prosecuted for it

As in my case, I bought an additional license for Vista, so I have no x64 installation DVD. From what I've heard I should be able to use that key to install x64. I don't really care either way, as I just built this computer and won't need to move the OS anytime soon.

Yeah, I doubt Microsoft would ever go after anyone for it, even if they cared that much about it. I post a lot on a forum that is VERY strict on piracy, so I figured I should mention it.

With that being said, I think any new build that can handle it, should be 64bit.

Thread: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Thread Tools

64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Re: 64bit vs 32bit for a kick ass rig.

Latest Threads

Up & Coming Threads

Hottest Threads