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  1. #1
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    March 10th PUP WS testing~

    Feel free to move this topic once the update hype is over. *It's 5:30am and I'm very tired *

    Here's some basic testing on the new WSs. Any more info on Skillchain openers/closers, or any Damage increase modifiers are welcome. Speculations too, if you keep on the subject at hand. :D

    Valoredge Frame (Level 75, 5/5 Melee Merits, full Melee/Acc setup):

    As stated before, the new WS "Bone Crusher" is indeed a three-fold attack using both the sword and shield of Valor's frame to perform. Here's some test I ran:

    No Maneuvers: Default Bone Crusher (will replace Chimera Ripper and String Clipper, woo!), roughly did 469~500 DMG on Colibri outside Al Zhabi.
    Earth: Forced Chimera Ripper
    Fire: Forced Chimera Ripper
    Lightning: Forced String Clipper
    Light: Forced Bone Crusher
    Darkness: Forced Cannibal Blade

    This is a great upgrade from the pansy, low level WSs, but maybe Hammermill or Earth-based items can increase it's damage? As always, Darkness forces Cannibal Blade, in case you need to top up your automaton's HP.

    Sharpshot Frame (Level 75, 0 Ranged Merits, full Melee/RAcc setup including Target Marker):

    Sharpshot's new "Armour Piercer" is nothing to lol about this time round.

    No Maneuvers: Default Armour Piercer (will replace Arcuballista only if enemy is weak to piercing?), roughly did 1469~1600 DMG on Colibri outside Al Zhabi.
    Wind: Forced Armour Piercer
    Fire: Forced Arcuballista (;________
    Lightning: Forced Daze
    Light: Forced Armour Piercer
    Darkness: Forced Armour Piercer

    Wow. This new WS is incredible. The damage, the animation, the screeching sound effect, it's all there. And luckily, some useful maneuvers help force it such as Wind. You'll need this up anyway for a small increase in RAcc, and for Replicator since the automaton miiight pull hate with this one. Lightning forces Daze, as always.

    Stormwaker/Soulsoother Frame (Level 75, 5/5 Magic Merits, 5/5 Melee Merits, Melee/Curing solo setup including Target Marker):

    The Harlequin/Stormwaker frame has been decked out with the very situational, confusing, patient, but most of all, incredibly powerful WS of them all.

    No Maneuvers: Default Magic Mortar (will replace Knockout), Did 0 damage on Colibri outside Al Zhabi. full HP.
    Ice: Forced Magic Mortar
    Wind: Forced Knockout
    Fire: Forced Slapstick
    Lightning: Forced Slapstick
    Water: Forced Magic Mortar
    Light: Forced Magic Mortar
    Darkness: Forced Magic Mortar

    Unfortunately, it replaces Knockout as the default WS, so if you solo or use Soulsoother in a party, your automaton will NEVER have low HP unless it runs out of MP or you stick a melee head on it.

    - Notes courtesy of Lotan: Even if Mortar hits for 0, if the master uses Dragon Kick after it, you can successfully make a Light Skillchain. Tested and proved true. The extra damage seems to just a little bit better than a solo Howling Fist or Raging Fists, and you get to see the many disco balls while soloing.
    - Thanks to Kurri, Magic Morter is also forced by Water.
    - Additional tests show with the aid of Role Reversal, Flame Holder and Inhibitor, 300%TP and 3x Fire Maneuvers at low HP (<4%) will cause incredible unresisted damage that is sometimes mostly mirrored in a Light Skillchain. Could this be true? Read on...
    - Note: March 25th's Update nerfed this "incredible" damage to "pants-on-head retarded sub-par" damage at low HP. Thank you, SE. (Tests courtesy of Mioko)

    Hope this helps clean up a few questions. No new attachments this update, but let's hope they keep bringing us some nice surprises.

  2. #2

    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    emm, have you considered the fact the lolcolibris are weak to piercing?

  3. #3
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Quote Originally Posted by ullquiorra
    emm, have you considered the fact the lolcolibris are weak to piercing?
    ofc, but the point is, it's almost double the damage of the previous 800 damage Dazes?

  4. #4
    Smells like Onions
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Magic Mortar makes me want to cry T_T

    Many of our soulsoothers actually melee, but very few are in critical health.
    With Light, Dark, and Ice forcing it, we are pretty much giving up the respectable 300 damage Knockout for a 0 damage Magical Mishap.

    Also, dumb question but....
    What WS will Sharpshot use under Fire Thunder Wind? I like the extra bit of Acc.

  5. #5
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon Zero
    Magic Mortar makes me want to cry T_T

    Many of our soulsoothers actually melee, but very few are in critical health.
    With Light, Dark, and Ice forcing it, we are pretty much giving up the respectable 300 damage Knockout for a 0 damage Magical Mishap.

    Also, dumb question but....
    What WS will Sharpshot use under Fire Thunder Wind? I like the extra bit of Acc.
    It was stated last update in order to push Daze into effect, you need more Thunder up than any other maneuver. If you have Target marker, this works for ranged attacks also I believe, and will give you more RAcc than Scope + 1 Wind. But that's if you WANT Daze, which you don't. I'd say that combination would make Daze happen, or a very ugly Arcuballista. But I haven't tested it. It seems even if you use a hint of Fire on WS, it'll force the low level ones on you. :/

    Going back to what I said about "you must have more Thunder up than any other", this is also true for Knockout. With 1 Light and 1 Wind up, my automaton still used Magic Moron. It seems you'll need 1 or 2 Wind up every time if you want to keep Knockout. Stupid SE.

    On a side note, cross posted from the Data Mining Discussion, automatons are now under the influence of Sambas, for my favourite combo of PUP/DNC. So even if you have Drain Samba up, and want a decent Mortar, it's still never going to pull it off. I guess the Harlequin is the joke of all frames after all :/

  6. #6

    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Magic Mortar isn't completely worthless. I was chaining off of it to make light in campaign and doing pretty well. I don't know how much they changed the chain resistance, but every chain I made seemed to be for the same as my damage.

    0(MM) -> 600(Dragon Kick) + 600(Light) isn't too bad. It'd still be nice if it could be in th 200+ range. Definitely seems off a bit to see a WS consistently hit for 0.

    I have yet to see reports of Armour Piercer in a real world situation. I'm anxiously awaiting vs. Great birds, or something of that nature. I'll get there after some sleep and work, etc.

    Lotan

  7. #7
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Quote Originally Posted by Lotan
    Magic Mortar isn't completely worthless. I was chaining off of it to make light in campaign and doing pretty well. I don't know how much they changed the chain resistance, but every chain I made seemed to be for the same as my damage.

    0(MM) -> 600(Dragon Kick) + 600(Light) isn't too bad. It'd still be nice if it could be in th 200+ range. Definitely seems off a bit to see a WS consistently hit for 0.

    I have yet to see reports of Armour Piercer in a real world situation. I'm anxiously awaiting vs. Great birds, or something of that nature. I'll get there after some sleep and work, etc.

    Lotan
    Ditto, I woulda been up for it if my download finished earlier, but work calls! Please keep any new findings in this thread and we can work out some new strats.

  8. #8

    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    The first thing I did was hop out on PUP to check these out when I got online, initially being scared at magic mortar. Something bugging me though is when I went out to test them, I was using no maneuvers at all, and my automaton kept using daze as the default, not armor piercer.

  9. #9
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Quote Originally Posted by Spoony Bob
    The first thing I did was hop out on PUP to check these out when I got online, initially being scared at magic mortar. Something bugging me though is when I went out to test them, I was using no maneuvers at all, and my automaton kept using daze as the default, not armor piercer.
    I used AP for me no problem, but knowing SE and how vague PUP is with these things... Then again when do you ever have 0 maneuvers up during a WS/with automaton TP anyway, pretty sure it'll be easy to force (I did it with 3x Wind and it seemed to like that), lol.

  10. #10
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Yeah, I went out to Lufaise Mds. and screwed around with PUP but I couldn't get AP to fire off with no maneuvers or one of any element. Maybe it's similar to Regen III with WHM head and will only work depending on what you're fighting?

  11. #11

    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    No AP will fire no matter what you are fighting. Try using alight maneuver as the trigger.

  12. #12
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Interesting stuff :D

    I can't wait to see how Bonecrusher and Armor Piecer do on some of the bigger mobs.

  13. #13
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    new mage ws => totally crap because 1) howling fist is the best 2) mages dont get TP fast, even when you solo.
    new melee ws=> it does 150 more dmg than cannibal blade so it's cool, but only in a party, as in a solo situation you will want cannibal blade to drain HP and rolereversal to cure yourself.
    new range ws => Like daze, big numbers, but slow tp..

    The BLM head still owns

  14. #14
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    While that is true, PUPs do now have the ability to create light and dark skillchains, something we have wanted for a loooong time

    Add in the increased damage from skillchains (or rather decreased resists) and you have monster DD potential.

    P.S Has anyone tried bard songs to see if they effect the automaton like Sambas do?

  15. #15
    the whitest knight u' know
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Quote Originally Posted by Toth
    While that is true, PUPs do not have the ability to create light and dark skillchains, something we have wanted for a loooong time

    Add in the increased damage from skillchains (or rather decreased resists) and you have monster DD potential.

    P.S Has anyone tried bard songs to see if they effect the automaton like Sambas do?
    Thinking back on this, it hadn't even dawned on me until right now... I am 88.4563% sure my Automaton was draining from someone's Drain Samba when me (pup/nin) and a PUP/DNC both attacked a Colibri at the same time... What does this mean? Outside members get samba effects now? Pets get it on top of that?

  16. #16

    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    They are granted the samba effects but not bard songs, protectra, etc. They are also unable to be healed by Waltzes.

  17. #17
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Quote Originally Posted by Bagel
    Yeah, I went out to Lufaise Mds. and screwed around with PUP but I couldn't get AP to fire off with no maneuvers or one of any element. Maybe it's similar to Regen III with WHM head and will only work depending on what you're fighting?
    I also took this onboard and edited the OP post. It seems he'll do it on things weak to piercing :/ Oh well, at least you can force it with Light or Wind on anything that's not :D

  18. #18
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    I'm gonna go to Colbris tonight and see what Armor Piercer can do/test Manever priorty and effectiveness. Being able to break 1k on em with the Automaton alone would be excellent, especially if it can make for an easy SC with more damage.

    They seriously need to fix that damn Activate timer though.

  19. #19
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenai
    I'm gonna go to Colbris tonight and see what Armor Piercer can do/test Manever priorty and effectiveness. Being able to break 1k on em with the Automaton alone would be excellent, especially if it can make for an easy SC with more damage.

    They seriously need to fix that damn Activate timer though.
    And Repair, and overall RNG frame defense (gets one shotted by every HNM and Limbus boss), and TP gain, and fix old attachments. Yep there's a lot of stuff we need fixed tbqh. QQ!

  20. #20
    Smells like Onions
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    Re: March 10th Puppetmaster WS testing~

    Guess I'll throw what I tested into the mix.

    I started out with Valoredge. Bonecrusher is light triggered, which is alright I guess. Better than the new triggers for sharpshot and the mage frames. I found the damage to be random at best. Since it's a 3 fold attack damage can vary hugely. My low 182, high 796.

    Next was Sharpshot. Looks like a dark trigger to me. Sadly fire+fire+dark was ballista, but fire+dark worked. Damage was great, litte shy of 1k on the tigers I was fighting. Then I thought I'd see if it lives up to its name, so I found the most defensive mob I could think of(that I could actually kill). Sadly no go, AP did only about 500ish on lobisons. But the ws does open darkness(has distortion prop.). Xi helped me do a few
    AP > Diss =darkness.

    Finally the mage pups. Mortar seems like a water trigger to me. Completely hp based, so was mostly doing 0s. The light sc damage wasn't doing enough to out do howling+AP, but lol I decided to make it work. So my next test was with my harly. Highest hp and lowest mp of the mages. I sent it after the tiger and let it beat on it til it had only 27 hp left, Xi then voked it off. Dragon Kick(681) > Mortar(711) = Light(711) So that's 2103. Impractical at best. Only way you could consistantly do this is if you are in a pt, with a good tank/strong melee that can hold hate. Plus the mob can't use aoes. I'm going to test it more today, see if i can do it repeatedly without Kenbishi dying. But I'm not holding my breath.

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