SAM Endgame Plan and SAM/RNG

[Verve]

Right just knocked out 8/8 merits in Great Katana, and wondering where I possibly go from here.

Got all the subs needed, and just really a question about whether I should go be aiming for a SAM/RNG build or whether its been completely killed now? Would I be wasting my time getting all the gear required and the right merits if I wasn't able to use it correctly?

With going for the SAM/RNG is it best going with All Out Haste to get to 100TP or am I best just going with a Standard TP build? Would a 6-hit build be workable with Soboro and /RNG?

So many questions! (although if SAM/RNG is gimp now, there is only a big fat 1 question to answer)

Cheers for any help!

[Zilong]

SAM/RNG basically means you're putting on extra effort for less damage of SAM/WAR on practically everything...just on the principle that your WS will miss at least 25% of the time, even with best gear and merit.

[Alexandor]

I'd just simply stick with /war, max out Overwhelm/Store tp/Meditate recast and don't bother with a /RNG set up ;x Samurai is powerful as it is and you want to stick with A+ GK skill even on WSs

[isladar]

I'll put it this way.. no one is going to demand that you show up to a merit /RNG. If you want to have fun with something, level your polearm and bring a Love Halberd to colibri. Its disgusting.

[theo]

As others have stated, SAM/RNG generally equals more effort for similar or lower damage. Not worth it imo unless you truly enjoy it, in which case go to town.

With going for the SAM/RNG is it best going with All Out Haste to get to 100TP or am I best just going with a Standard TP build? Would a 6-hit build be workable with Soboro and /RNG?

If I were to use SAM/RNG I think I would use the exact same TP set as my SAM/WAR... first establish 6-hit and then put haste in every other slot you can. Soboro works fine with 6-hit builds even though you will occasionally get that 3-hit proc when you only needed 1. I'm pretty sure it still quickens your overall time-to-ws although just wait and somebody will pull out 3 paragraphs worth of numbers to prove me wrong

[Tempyst]

SAM/RNG was worth it at certain camps before the 2H buff, but I wouldn't really bother with it now- it forced you to use sushi, rely very heavily on minuet, and your WS miss rate was a lot higher too.

A nice side effect of the 2H buff made polearms more viable for those same camps, though. Most of the better polearms for samurai are pretty inexpensive (Stone splitter, schiltron, Iron Ram lance), though the best ones are kind of difficult to get (gondo-shizunori, leviathan's couse, love halberd). Very nice to bring to colibri camp, though you may have to use sushi like SAM/RNG did. The bonus, however, is that your WS average is way better than it was with sidewinder since it's rare to completely whiff a penta thrust. Love halberd is awesome DOT there and you'll often put up 1000+ damage on WS with any polearm.

[Verve]

Well looks like PLD is going to be the next job to level!!!!!!! =(

Cheers for the advice though guys/girls!

[Kaope]

Sorry for the derail. Have some questions in regards the SAM.

1) Everyone seems to say that sam/rng just doesnt cut it in meripo anymore since 2H boost. But what about salvage? Damage wise? or sam/rng just basically need alot of cells in order to work?

2) I've been reading sam/war tanking salvage bosses. How is this possible? I'm assuming that you need alot of -physical damage% gears to start with? Does anyone have any LJ links in regards to this?

[SamanosukeShiva]

if you're going to fight boss, dont even try SAM/RNG, with cap archery merit, sushi, max racc gear, the acc still sux, and when u do land sidewinder, it's prolly gonna be lower dmg than GK WS.

I've only tanked LAC and Battleclad chariot with SAM/WAR, it's pretty simple just use seigan+third eye wearing normal TP gear, when third eye is down switch to -phys, when the chariot is debuffed (slow2+elegy+para) it's pretty easy to tank them. I have not tank LBC yet though, but i'd imagine it'll be pretty easy to tank that also as SAM/WAR if you killed 10/10 gears. As for Armored chariot you'd prolly have to /NIN and get hate straight from your dmg, since mortal revolution will pwn your third eye.


SAM/WAR Polearm > SAM/RNG all the way

Penta Thrust + Overwhelm = teh sex

[isladar]

One of the absolutely amazing things about SAM is your access to damage mitigation gear. Tempyst (who posted earlier) and myself have duo-tanked Salvage bosses a number of times, and our group cycles between 2x SAM/WAR, or SAM/WAR + MNK/NIN as main tanks. But even outside of Salvage an OHSHI-- set up will do wonders. Its become so ingrained in my play style that I still freak out on WAR when I realize I can't put on my softy, smooshy, damage-be-gone set.

It can take a bit of an investment (and really, its JUST a bit), but its entirely worth it. Some pieces you should consider:

Iron Ram Lance (Its like a Dring.. that you can stab with!), Arhat's +1 head and gi, jelly ring (depending on what you're fighting), and your normal haste gear. One option is to use AF legs for the +parry, but I prefer to keep my Byakko's on. Tempyst prefers Gavial cuisses. Askar feet if you have them. Pretty tanking set go!

[Tempyst]

Tempyst prefers Gavial cuisses.

I don't have Byakko's haidate or I'd just use those >

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6311/tankut4.jpg

Got a boxer's mantle since this picture was taken, since I'm coming up close on capped parrying skill- parrying certain AOEs or just getting lucky parries at dire moments is awesome.

Edit: Someone in another topic (Max I think) mentioned a usable 5 hit setup for polearm- I dunno the math and stuff, howzat work?

[isladar]

Tempyst prefers Gavial cuisses.

I don't have Byakko's haidate or I'd just use those >

Look, for a brief, shining moment, all these nice people thought that you had made an educated decision and decided on Gavial, giving it a certain mystique. And then you went and ruined everything.

Get in my office, now.

[Minions]

if you're going to fight boss, dont even try SAM/RNG, with cap archery merit, sushi, max racc gear, the acc still sux, and when u do land sidewinder, it's prolly gonna be lower dmg than GK WS.

I've only tanked LAC and Battleclad chariot with SAM/WAR, it's pretty simple just use seigan+third eye wearing normal TP gear, when third eye is down switch to -phys, when the chariot is debuffed (slow2+elegy+para) it's pretty easy to tank them. I have not tank LBC yet though, but i'd imagine it'll be pretty easy to tank that also as SAM/WAR if you killed 10/10 gears. As for Armored chariot you'd prolly have to /NIN and get hate straight from your dmg, since mortal revolution will pwn your third eye.


SAM/WAR Polearm > SAM/RNG all the way

Penta Thrust + Overwhelm = teh sex

Our sam currently goes SAM/RNG on boss fights, and our previous SAM did as well. Have not seen any problem with it, and keeps 1 more person out of eating aoe's. Both don't seem to have problems hitting the chariot much. When i'm tanking the chariot as MNK/NIN x2 I would much rather have MP being used on me than another random melee. In my experience more people getting aoe just causes more trouble than its worth.

[Tempyst]

Tempyst prefers Gavial cuisses.

I don't have Byakko's haidate or I'd just use those >

Look, for a brief, shining moment, all these nice people thought that you had made an educated decision and decided on Gavial, giving it a certain mystique. And then you went and ruined everything.

Get in my office, now.

There's nothing educated about using gavial cuisses over byakko's haidate

[SamanosukeShiva]

i use those also for -dmg gears, bought the HQ one for 20k i think lawl

[Zilong]

Sorry for the derail. Have some questions in regards the SAM.

1) Everyone seems to say that sam/rng just doesnt cut it in meripo anymore since 2H boost. But what about salvage? Damage wise? or sam/rng just basically need alot of cells in order to work?

2) I've been reading sam/war tanking salvage bosses. How is this possible? I'm assuming that you need alot of -physical damage% gears to start with? Does anyone have any LJ links in regards to this?

1. I really don't think I'd choose other sub beside WAR in salvage. Maybe /DNC if we're really short on healer/people and doing 4-5 entry and not planning to do boss, but seriously, I get sub and ja usually on the first box, and berserked hasso just obliterate shit with soboro. SAM/RNG also runs the problem of needing undulatus, which is prioritized to BRD and THF. On Zhayolm, you're not getting undu until second floor, and SS + Arra require you to be somewhat lucky with the cell drop since SS is random, while Arra has the potential to be a complete jew. Without undulatus, you're just a really shitty SAM/WAR, and even with it, odds are that statement won't change by much.

2. My Physical Damage reduction set runs -25% damage, which is enough to down non crit hits to below 200 even when berserked. Seigan TE is better than Utsusemi on boss just on the virtue that the AoE doesn't wipe it. With a strong DD, you'd be cotanking and not hogging the tank alone anyway, which makes the timer for seigan/third eye sufficient to stay alive with the support of damage set and decent healers. Granted my cotank usually tank 60% of the time, but I've done SAM/WAR solo tank on AC with really amazing result before.

That and dusty wing meikyo is the best fucking hate tool in the game.

[kaboo]

nobody else uses Sam/nin to main tank?
in my salvage group I use sam/nin Armored Chariot and it worked pretty well.
War/nin will drop it from time to time (usually after AC's ws) to help attack and mnk come in to 100fist it near the end.
Some of the members are fairly new to salvage and the mnk has problem tanking /nin.
our setup war/nin(pimped out war, HQ hands feet ridill e body etc) sam/nin (me) cor brd rdm whm. 2nd pt thf/nin and mnk/nin.
I usually open with 2hr to settle hate and I don't get hit a lot since i rotate third eye, ni, and ichi.
Is this an effective way to do it?

also I've yet to tank other bosses so I wonder how well will sam/nin solo tank on them.

[The Blackrose]

2. My Physical Damage reduction set runs -25% damage, which is enough to down non crit hits to below 200 even when berserked. Seigan TE is better than Utsusemi on boss just on the virtue that the AoE doesn't wipe it. With a strong DD, you'd be cotanking and not hogging the tank alone anyway, which makes the timer for seigan/third eye sufficient to stay alive with the support of damage set and decent healers. Granted my cotank usually tank 60% of the time, but I've done SAM/WAR solo tank on AC with really amazing result before.

Wait, what?

[Arwocky]

Seigan TE is better than Utsusemi on boss just on the virtue that the AoE doesn't wipe it.

Uhhhh . . . Third Eye does wipe when you get hit by an AoE. It says it wears off.

Many hours in campaign battles fighting Orcs as SAM/WAR has burned this into my mind. Damn Battle Dance . . .

[Zilong]

Seigan TE is better than Utsusemi on boss just on the virtue that the AoE doesn't wipe it.

Uhhhh . . . Third Eye does wipe when you get hit by an AoE. It says it wears off.

Many hours in campaign battles fighting Orcs as SAM/WAR has burned this into my mind. Damn Battle Dance . . .

Spoiler: Chariots' AoE are magical damage.

I don't give a fuck on what you think based off orcs, the question is about tanking salvage bosses, and all the archaic's AoE be it gears or chariot doesn't do shit to seigan TE.