Demon Helm +1 or Wizard's Petasos +1?

[Leroy]

Which is better for BLMs? The DH+1 has one extra INT, but the AF has a use as a hmp, -emnity, and MP piece. My friends told me to stick with the DH+1, but I thought I'd ask here for some advanced advice. The reason being, said friends told me the NQ petasos was better than the NQ demon helm, but they're saying the HQ Demon helm is better than the HQ petasos...

[amylea]

DH+1 manaburns, solo, etc. AF+1 HNM's.

[Seditedi]

Not worth having both, AF1+1 is fine.
Demon Helm+1 is meh unless you care about 3 dmg... lol

[aceofspades]

Not worth having both, AF1+1 is fine.
Demon Helm+1 is meh unless you care about 3 dmg... lol

[Leeto]

I have a macro set for low man / manaburn type stuff that includes automatic sorc ring, sorc belt, and if I was consistent, DH+1 (in lieu of omniscient, penitent's, petasos+1 in my "normal" set). I still don't like demon helm though and probably won't ever buy one on principle-90% of the BLMs I see using DH+1 are poor overnuking tarus with NQ staves <_<

[Leroy]

Okay.

So would the AF+1 hat be the best choice for first AF+1, or should I go with the hands or body first?

I was wondering if the Hat was worth getting since I have DH+1 and people were telling me its hands down better. AF+1 hat does look nice, but I use the body all th time when soloing, and it's good in dynamis. That said, I don't really have many issues resist wise, especially in Dynamis thanks to the double Dark weather. Then, there's the hands. 3 INT isn't ground breaking, but it's nothing to really scoff at since it's an improvement on a piece that offers an amazing 15 Elemental magic skill.

I fucking hate making decisions like this for my BLM, because there's so much grey area and sideways improvements whereas my melee choices are relatively cut and dry ~_~;

[shieldsofwindurst]

I hope this doesn't devolve into a religious argument, but meh... I'll try to give a serious answer.

3 Points to consider.
1. DH+1 does do more dmg. like... 2-3 more dmg.
2. SP+1 gives 30 MP, Enmity -4, HMP+1.
3. If you REALLY want to min/max... you can get both.

Conclusion 1: If you're going to full-time a dmg hat, I recommend SP+1. 2-3 more dmg is worth 30 MP, -4 enmity, and HMP+1? Really? Sure maybe the HMP is negligible if you have goliard or yigit, but if you have a full yigit hmp set, you probably have enough gear that you could use the room for other things, instead of have a manaburn-onry hat. (This is what I did.)

Conclusion 2: While technically DH+1 will help you win epeen contests at puddings (and we all know how important that is) I have never, in all the time I've spent there, lost because of 2-3 dmg. The *minimum* is 5, usually in the neighborhood of 10-20. This is because my LS has some very well geared blms, but we all have our own quirks; some with novios; some that don't bother with sorc ring full time; some that don't use obis for thunder/iceday; some with morrigans. I myself managed to get relic pants +1, so that may skew my results somewhat. I have however managed to win a number of epeen battles through intelligent management of gear & mp. Granted there are others on the server who I'm sure can outdo me, but I'm no slouch. Take my advice as you will.

In any case, if you're in an epeen contest with blms geared so incredibly similarly to you that 2-3 dmg will make a difference, then the first thing you need to do is cap merits. If you care this much about your dmg, then yes, that means INT merits too. The second thing you need to do is get HQ blm gear like novio, morrigans, sorc belt, etc. The Third thing you need to do is buy crimson jelly, which virtually no blm I've seen actually burns during a manaburn unless it's a serious, serious throwdown. The fourth thing, if you do all of that, is to get the temp items like the mab+ ammo item & the belt that gives +10 int. The fifth thing, is get a bard to sing int etudes on you! Each of these 5 things will increase your dmg output far, far more than the single point of int on the DH+1 will. Finally, if it's epeen time, you have full morrigans, crimson jelly, temp items, etc etc etc and are landing tier 4s for 2k+ without etudes or burn or anything? Sure, go get that extra 2-3 points of dmg, post a screenshot of your ridiculous dmg on KI, and be content that very, very, very few people will ever do that much dmg in a single nuke on a pudding.

Now to address your second question. The order I got af+1 was this:
1. Body
2. Head
3. Gloves
4. Legs (1/2 way there... </3 </3 </3 temenos)

Rationale:
I have been the primary sleeper in dynamis for almost 2 years, and while in city dynamises sleeps are easy to land with good enfeebling gear + obi + plutos, every bit helps when you get into glacer and Especially xarc. 7 merits, every piece of enfeeb gear possible except for HQ legs & sea cape, and it STILL aint a sure thing, esp on paladins. Thus I went with body first. 2nd was head, because as I've said, I full-time it for nuking, so it's a great all-around piece for me. 3rd was gloves, because as you said, it's an upgrade to an already awesome piece you should full-time for upper tier HNMs. Fourth will be legs just so I can say it's done and never care about diabolic silk again. Feet might be remotely interesting if there wasn't such as thing as rostrums (or errant pigaches) for stoneskin. Anyone that wastes a diabolic silk on upgrading feet needs to be drawn & quartered, and the video should be posted on KI's blm forum for maximum derision.

Edit: meant to say 2-3 pts of dmg, not 2-3 pts of int.

[Pergo]

. 7 merits, every piece of enfeeb gear possible except for HQ legs & sea cape, and it STILL aint a sure thing, esp on paladins.

you could have 999 enfeebling and the pld will still resist you just as much, resist sleep is a job ability that kicks in outside of skill levels.

hat should be first,
then if you solo alot, especially stuff like golems in sky, should do body,
if you do alot of hnms, gloves are nice.

[pchan]

First, +1 point of intellingence means 5 dmg on puddings, because those take 25% damage bonus from elemental magic. Second don't ever use the belt that gives +10 int, because the effect last like 2 or 3 minutes and then disappears for 10 minutes recharge time. Third -enmity gear is stupid on BLM, if you land a 1000+ spell -4 enmity for the sameish damage will not make any difference seriously. And IF you really care about your enmity you need to nuke with Yigit Turban, for -5 enmity and 2 MAB ! If you don't care about the -5 dmg from DH+1 then you don't care about the -5 dmg from yigit either ..

edit : i got a lot of resist on pld with elemental seal as rdm in dynamis

[Zosi]

[quote="pchan"]Third -enmity gear is stupid on BLM, if you land a 1000+ spell -4 enmity for the sameish damage will not make any difference seriously./quote]

You do realize that you can make precisely the same argument about 5 damage? Equivocating differences away isn't a particularly effective way to prove your point.

The reason that you're not completely wrong (or completely right) is that both +damage and -enmity are most noticeable when stacked. -4 more enmity on your nuking set isn't going to make a huge difference by itself, neither will 1 INT. Which you choose to use depends on what you use your BLM for. I use AF+1 for damage nuking myself for two reasons, the first being that I already have it from when I did HNMs, the second being that Demon Helms are INCREDIBLY FUCKING UGLY. YMMV. If I had to suggest one nowadays for someone who mostly did solo/manaburn work, I'd probably recommend the helm too.

About other AF+1, if you solo much at all, do body -> hands (-> hat). If you do HNMs (or just stuff that resists) more, do hands -> body (-> hat).

[Shuemue]

I prefer Wizard's Petasos +1. Even with the latest gobbie bag upgrade, I still don't have enough space to fully equip my BLM, so my AF1+1 hat wins due to versatility.

[Arkanna]

Currently, Wizard's Petasos +1 for nuking exp-level mobs and Sorcerer's Petasos for nuking harder targets.

That'll likely change a little once I finally finish my damned Morrigan's Robe but til then, ...

[fishstix]

Why do people choose Omniscient Ring over Snow Ring? I guess checking now, the price difference isn't much, but it used to be like 800k vs 300k. Is there a hidden trait? Only reason I can think of is the whitebox.

[Zosi]

whitebox

[Fredjan]

You're going to hear varying answers from BLMs regarding this, that's all there is to it. Some will prefer their INT and treat it like a life or death matter. Some prefer to help control their hate line (myself included).

Wizard's Petasos +1 wins due to versatility and nice all-around stats. All Demon Helm +1 offers over it is 1 whole extra INT (which is the only stat on it BLM benefits from), which isn't going to make a really noticable difference.

Enmity- on BLM isn't stupid; that trend belongs to the BLMs who only give a shit about their damage ("OMG I gotta do the most damage possible!!111"). Going completely out on enmity- is stupid (ie: errant cape etc.). It's something that's better 'balanced' with your other gear. It's the same thing with Penitent's Rope (which also has MND on it for Stoneskin; moot point if you can reach 114 MND with capped Enhancing Magic without it) vs. Sorcerer's Belt, but the belt does give other stats compared to DH+1 giving raw INT (albeit not extremely useful; it doesn't give any MP either). I've seen the benefits of using more enmity- gear while still managing to do a lot of damage (enough to warrant getting hate)... and never having the mob look at my face.

I used to be a fulltime Demon Helm +1 user but I saw the benefits of using enmity- gear in situations where it can matter, and I've never since looked back. I'm not saying Demon Helm +1 isn't acceptable, nor am I saying Sorcerer's Belt isn't acceptable. Both, like AF+1/Penitent's Rope, have their uses. You're not gimp by any means wearing gear with 1 less INT but other useful stats.

For HNMs/elemental skill set, go with Sorcerer's Petasos, if you're lucky enough to own one. Full elemental merits alone aren't enough for some HNMs so you will need extra skill in certain situations.

[Tajin]

I use or used SP for "big" stuff, but since the LS has much better geared BLMs than me, I rarely use it anymore.
I'd go Hands, Body, Legs, Head for upgrades. Also, hat & weskit looks fugly on Elvaan ._. (not that ANYTHING looks good on lolelfblms ;; )

[Redshift]

So would the AF+1 hat be the best choice for first AF+1, or should I go with the hands or body first?

For upgrading, I'd first take the hands than the hat.

For HNM that need adequate elemental skill for less resists (assuming you don't have AF2 hat), AF hat with AF+1 hands is better than AF+1 hat with AF hands, since you get more INT out if it. But for flans/worms/whatever, I just go with DH+1 and Ahands since enmity doesn't matter.

[evilpaul]

Okay.

So would the AF+1 hat be the best choice for first AF+1, or should I go with the hands or body first?

I was wondering if the Hat was worth getting since I have DH+1 and people were telling me its hands down better. AF+1 hat does look nice, but I use the body all th time when soloing, and it's good in dynamis. That said, I don't really have many issues resist wise, especially in Dynamis thanks to the double Dark weather. Then, there's the hands. 3 INT isn't ground breaking, but it's nothing to really scoff at since it's an improvement on a piece that offers an amazing 15 Elemental magic skill.

I fucking hate making decisions like this for my BLM, because there's so much grey area and sideways improvements whereas my melee choices are relatively cut and dry ~_~;

My first BLM AF+1 piece was the Body. It's the best Enfeebling Magic swap for that slot (and has extra Enmity- over the NQ), and couldn't say I regret it. If I ever get another Diabolic Yarn (~8 months and counting) I'd go for the hat because I agree 100% with this:

Not worth having both, AF1+1 is fine.
Demon Helm+1 is meh unless you care about 3 dmg... lol

That being said, the Head, Body, and Hands +1 are all nice pieces, so pick whichever you feel will be most useful to you doing whatever you do most.

[Kaeko]

The argument shouldn't be strictly on which is "better" for nuking. I think you're always going to find a situation where Demon's Helm will win - Soloing would be one of them since - enmity doesn't matter and it has more INT.

The real question is a question of tradeoffs due to having only 70 item slots. By adding a DM+1 to your inventory choice, you lose 1 slot, which can be used for something else - Enfeebling set, Dark Magic set, HMP set, etc. If you're anal about gear, you will run out of slots, and at that point, must be choices as to what to cut.

I won't flat out say don't use DM+1. I can see some people using it. The reason I do not is because I view AF1+1 hat as nuking and HMP set. If you were to have Goliard Hat, which is +2 HMP, then AF1+1 hat would no longer be needed for the HMP set. At this point, AF1+1 hat would be a strictly nuking piece. If this became true, then you would be debating 1 INT over -4 enmity...

I'll be devil's advocate here and say this is the case. I personally don't think - enmity is an important stat when nuking (it is for healing, but not nuking in my opinion). This is because when you know you're going to get hate soon, you stop nuking. The fight doesn't end because you stopped nuking. The same is not true for healing. Healers have to heal or people start dying, so the more leeway they get enmity-wise before that happens the better.

Short Answer:
AF1+1 to save inventory slots unless you have Goliard Head. In this case, AF1+1 no longer doubles as damage/HMP gear and it becomes a choice of +1 INT or - 4 Enmity. I'd go DM+1 in this case.

[Kerberoz]

Body should be the first upgrade regardless, and hands second. Not getting into the retarded head debate, since the difference either way is tiny, and if the mob's strong enough for you to care about hate, you'll want af2.