Americans - Would you change gun laws?

[Dolmen]

"Please break into my house, I would love the opportunity to kill you legally."
-Henry Rollins

How are we going to kill said person unless we jungle knife fight? Freakin' Rosie O'Donnell runs around screaming about guns, yet her security guards carry... No guns for the citizens = no protection from the uncivilized. As Americans, we have the right to change the government should we deem it necessary. Do you think the government is going to blink at a population without arms should they decide to fully enslave the American people? We'll be standing there with our Nerf bow and arrow shouting threats we can't back up. An area without guns is an ideal spot for criminals to prey. Would you rather rob someone in Texas, or some state where no one has guns? In Texas, you have a strong chance of getting shot, so only the retarded are going to go to Texas to prey. Then again, that's some good population control... I digress...

Tightening gun laws also won't do a damn thing seeing as it's already easier to obtain a gun from the black market versus a gun shop. If someone wants to kill someone with a gun, they're going to find a way regardless of any law we set in place.

Guns don't kill people, physics kills people.

[Demosthenes]

Is slavery in the constitution?

It is not about the constitution

http://www.thecatconnection.com/miva...p_flops_tn.jpg

You realize that this is a gun control topic, and you realize that I was unaware hence I asked a question? Oh LAWD! I asked a question! The constitution is now a holy fucking grail. You completely missed the part where this is a gun control topic and I asserted my opinions on that? Wait I called it moot. Carry on with your trollan.

[Deejay]

You realize that this is a gun control topic, and you realize that I was unaware hence I asked a question? Oh LAWD! I asked a question! The constitution is now a holy fucking grail. You completely missed the part where this is a gun control topic and I asserted my opinions on that? Wait I called it moot. Carry on with your trollan.

I just think it's silly for you to question my IQ yet turn around and ask retarded questions that my 12 year old sister could answer. You seriously never heard of the 3/5's amendment? Aren't you black? If race cards were real I'd seriously ask you to turn yours in right now.

Edit: And for the record I was agreeing with you on the whole gun issue. I'm just calling you out on being an idiot for using the constitution as your main reasoning behind keeping them legal. As if a 230 year old document could never be wrong.

Editx2: And because you called me stupid lol.

[Demosthenes]

You realize that this is a gun control topic, and you realize that I was unaware hence I asked a question? Oh LAWD! I asked a question! The constitution is now a holy fucking grail. You completely missed the part where this is a gun control topic and I asserted my opinions on that? Wait I called it moot. Carry on with your trollan.

I just think it's silly for you to question my IQ yet turn around and ask retarded questions that my 12 year old sister could answer. You seriously never heard of the 3/5's amendment? Aren't you black? If race cards were real I'd seriously ask you to turn yours in right now.

What the fuck does slavery have to do with a man that is not American? Shit, it is my job to know everything about your fucking constitution, despite the fact that I'm not American. Your 12 year old sister can answer that? Good for her. I'm sure all Americans know that slavery was fostered by the constitution. Done trolling yet?

[Melchiah]

You realize that this is a gun control topic, and you realize that I was unaware hence I asked a question? Oh LAWD! I asked a question! The constitution is now a holy fucking grail. You completely missed the part where this is a gun control topic and I asserted my opinions on that? Wait I called it moot. Carry on with your trollan.

I just think it's silly for you to question my IQ yet turn around and ask retarded questions that my 12 year old sister could answer. You seriously never heard of the 3/5's amendment? Aren't you black? If race cards were real I'd seriously ask you to turn yours in right now.

Edit: And for the record I was agreeing with you on the whole gun issue. I'm just calling you out on being an idiot for using the constitution as your main reasoning behind keeping them legal. As if a 230 year old document could never be wrong.

Editx2: And because you called me stupid lol.

You have proven yourself a troll whose toolbox consists of one item, the race card, and you now have nothing intelligent or important to say.

Edit: For fucks sake, DeeJay, are you seriously just incapable of participating in a discussion without maneuvering as quickly as possible to the race issue? Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ, you make my brain hurt.

[Deejay]

I didn't bring up the race issue, he did. I'm just using it to show why he's being dumb. Carry on with the gun control talk.

[Cyn]

I just think handguns should be heavily restricted. You can protect your home easily enough with a rifle or shotgun. Basically since handguns and assault rifles are made purely for shooting human beings, I don't see why it's legal to own them. It's mostly an issue of it being concealed I guess. A lot of crimes happen outside of peoples homes, and it would be kind of hard to walk around with a rifle in your pocket. Only police and military personnel should be allowed to carry around concealed guns imo.

I just woke up, sorry if that's not very cohesive.

[Maxxthepenguin]

You realize that this is a gun control topic, and you realize that I was unaware hence I asked a question? Oh LAWD! I asked a question! The constitution is now a holy fucking grail. You completely missed the part where this is a gun control topic and I asserted my opinions on that? Wait I called it moot. Carry on with your trollan.

I just think it's silly for you to question my IQ yet turn around and ask retarded questions that my 12 year old sister could answer. You seriously never heard of the 3/5's amendment? Aren't you black? If race cards were real I'd seriously ask you to turn yours in right now.

What the fuck does slavery have to do with a man that is not American? Shit, it is my job to know everything about your fucking constitution, despite the fact that I'm not American. Your 12 year old sister can answer that? Good for her. I'm sure all Americans know that slavery was fostered by the constitution. Done trolling yet?

Where do you live? Where are you from?

Those were called indentured servants, people who paid for their passage to America by agreeing to work as a servant for a pre-agreed-upon term of years.

Also, this clause does not indicate the right to own slaves(all other persons?).

Indentured servitude is slavery with a different name. Instead of 'ownership', it sets people up so that they rely upon their masters but gain no means of independence (or skills to make it without money) so if the contract ever expires, there is nowhere for the servant to go in most cases except back into the master's servitude. It also often preyed on people who couldn't speak english well and thus didn't understand the exact meaning of the contract, and the contract has stipulations that are easily and inadvertently broken that can extend the contract.

But enough of that derail, I was just showing how there were some major problems with the founding of the USA and those ideals shouldn't be taken as some sort of unchangeable bible.

[Beckwin]

I think the idea of owning firearms to protect yourself from the government is really lol. There'd be no way a citizen uprising alone could overthrow the government without existing military support. It'd be a slaughter. "But 200 million people with guns!!111!!!" versus.... trained soldiers, machine guns, tanks, mines, mortars, missiles, naval bombardments, planes, bombs, etc. We simply are beyond the times where number of armed individuals was the chief strength of a force, so as far as I'm concerned the notion of a citizen militia or protection from oppression offered by guns is absolutely irrelevant.

Handgun violence wouldn't go away entirely if you ban handguns, but it would go down. I also think the black market is being overestimated; guns come from public manufacturers and can't be hidden as easily for smuggling. Yes there are a lot of existing handguns, but collection/reward efforts could make a dent in that. For all the people that want to cite pot use... imagine how much more it would be used if it were legal. Pot enforcement isn't even that strict to begin with.

I'm ok with sport rifles and to an extent, shotguns for home defense (if you really feel that you must). Preferably the kind of shotgun that's 2 shots then reload or w/e (I think tactical/assault shotguns should probably fall under assault weapons if they aren't already).

And finally, the constitution = holy grail attitude is annoying to me. The document was designed to be changed, so it's currently existing status really has no bearing on this discussion.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Handgun violence wouldn't go away entirely if you ban handguns, but it would go down. I also think the black market is being overestimated; guns come from public manufacturers and can't be hidden as easily for smuggling. Yes there are a lot of existing handguns, but collection/reward efforts could make a dent in that. For all the people that want to cite pot use... imagine how much more it would be used if it were legal. Pot enforcement isn't even that strict to begin with.

You also can't grow guns, they have to be manufactured. Please remember this, everyone.

And finally, the constitution = holy grail attitude is annoying to me. The document was designed to be changed, so it's currently existing status really has no bearing on this discussion.

Amen

[Cyn]

I think the idea of owning firearms to protect yourself from the government is really lol. There'd be no way a citizen uprising alone could overthrow the government without existing military support. It'd be a slaughter. "But 200 million people with guns!!111!!!" versus.... trained soldiers, machine guns, tanks, mines, mortars, missiles, naval bombardments, planes, bombs, etc. We simply are beyond the times where number of armed individuals was the chief strength of a force, so as far as I'm concerned the notion of a citizen militia or protection from oppression offered by guns is absolutely irrelevant.

Handgun violence wouldn't go away entirely if you ban handguns, but it would go down. I also think the black market is being overestimated; guns come from public manufacturers and can't be hidden as easily for smuggling. Yes there are a lot of existing handguns, but collection/reward efforts could make a dent in that. For all the people that want to cite pot use... imagine how much more it would be used if it were legal. Pot enforcement isn't even that strict to begin with.

I'm ok with sport rifles and to an extent, shotguns for home defense (if you really feel that you must). Preferably the kind of shotgun that's 2 shots then reload or w/e (I think tactical/assault shotguns should probably fall under assault weapons if they aren't already).

And finally, the constitution = holy grail attitude is annoying to me. The document was designed to be changed, so it's currently existing status really has no bearing on this discussion.

Obviously this man has been awake longer than me. That's more or less what I was getting at.

[Deejay]

Handgun violence wouldn't go away entirely if you ban handguns, but it would go down. I also think the black market is being overestimated; guns come from public manufacturers and can't be hidden as easily for smuggling. Yes there are a lot of existing handguns, but collection/reward efforts could make a dent in that. For all the people that want to cite pot use... imagine how much more it would be used if it were legal. Pot enforcement isn't even that strict to begin with.

Gun violence could go down in theory, but what % of homicides were made with legally registered weapons shot by the legal owner? You're forgetting to take into account that most armed robberies, gang related homicides, and drug related murders are done with illegal weapons. Do you think making them "more" illegal is really going to change anything?

And besides, it's not like the guns that are found at murder scenes are returned to the guys who were caught using them. There are still plenty of guns that get taken out of circulation yet gun violence remains relevant problem.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Handgun violence wouldn't go away entirely if you ban handguns, but it would go down. I also think the black market is being overestimated; guns come from public manufacturers and can't be hidden as easily for smuggling. Yes there are a lot of existing handguns, but collection/reward efforts could make a dent in that. For all the people that want to cite pot use... imagine how much more it would be used if it were legal. Pot enforcement isn't even that strict to begin with.

Gun violence could go down in theory, but what % of homicides were made with legally registered weapons shot by the legal owner? You're forgetting to take into account that most armed robberies, gang related homicides, and drug related murders are done with illegal weapons. Do you think making them "more" illegal is really going to change anything?

And most (or a large part, I don't remember the statistic) illegally possessed guns were directly stolen from somebody who got them legally.

[Beckwin]

Handgun violence wouldn't go away entirely if you ban handguns, but it would go down. I also think the black market is being overestimated; guns come from public manufacturers and can't be hidden as easily for smuggling. Yes there are a lot of existing handguns, but collection/reward efforts could make a dent in that. For all the people that want to cite pot use... imagine how much more it would be used if it were legal. Pot enforcement isn't even that strict to begin with.

Gun violence could go down in theory, but what % of homicides were made with legally registered weapons shot by the legal owner? You're forgetting to take into account that most armed robberies, gang related homicides, and drug related murders are done with illegal weapons. Do you think making them "more" illegal is really going to change anything?

And most (or a large part, I don't remember the statistic) illegally possessed guns were directly stolen from somebody who got them legally.

This has merit. Unless anyone has a source showing that most guns used in violent crimes were smuggled into the country or something.

[Deejay]

So if most traffickers resort to stealing guns, and the government takes that away... What are they going to steal next?

Also, you'd have to take into account that if the government were to ban illegal hand guns, that means all the legal owners would have to turn them in at once. The people who possess illegal hand guns would keep theirs and potentially have a field day when they know the common citizen doesn't have anything to properly defend themselves with.

I just don't think taking away handguns is just going to magically force everyone to get along with each other. Hand guns are a problem, but I think we'd be creating more problems by banning them.

[Remyo]

Handgun violence wouldn't go away entirely if you ban handguns, but it would go down. I also think the black market is being overestimated; guns come from public manufacturers and can't be hidden as easily for smuggling. Yes there are a lot of existing handguns, but collection/reward efforts could make a dent in that. For all the people that want to cite pot use... imagine how much more it would be used if it were legal. Pot enforcement isn't even that strict to begin with.

You also can't grow guns, they have to be manufactured. Please remember this, everyone.

over estimating the difficulty of gunsmithing by a bit, while it would be difficult to make a polymer semi automatic, a SAO revolver isn't, or rifle/shotgun.

I use my gun primarily for hunting and target practice and just admiring the ingenuity of a firearm. Home defense and protection isn't really a factor where I live, unless you count snakes.

[Beckwin]

The people who possess illegal hand guns would keep theirs and potentially have a field day when they know the common citizen doesn't have anything to properly defend themselves with.

the "common citizen" already doesn't have anything to properly defend themselves with.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

For all the people that want to cite pot use... imagine how much more it would be used if it were legal. Pot enforcement isn't even that strict to begin with.

The number of abortions performed in the U.S. went down after it was made legal.

And finally, the constitution = holy grail attitude is annoying to me. The document was designed to be changed, so it's currently existing status really has no bearing on this discussion.

I think the constitution is the holy grail, obviously, and I have no problem with changing it, however it needs to be done legally. Supreme court judges legislating from the bench =/= legal change.

[Maxxthepenguin]

For all the people that want to cite pot use... imagine how much more it would be used if it were legal. Pot enforcement isn't even that strict to begin with.

The number of abortions performed in the U.S. went down after it was made legal.

how the hell did people even get that figure

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Don't know, but I remember reading it in an article by a left leaning columnist. The gist was, "while its noble to be pro-life, the statistics show that making abortion legal decreased the number of abortions performed in the U.S. If republicans really care about life they will quit apposing Roe v. Wade."