SCH vs WHM in Nyzul

[Heretic]

Whm:
Cure V
Protect V (although not very important at all)
Shell V
Regen III
Haste
Benediction
Light based Sleep (Repose)
Wee bit slower Sublimation

Sch:
En-Spell-ga
Stoneskin-ga
Phalanx-ga
Blink-ga (not sure why I lissted this one)
Status Cure-ga (not tied down to Divine Seal either. I'm lookin at you, Psycheflayers)
Protect IV
Shell IV
Cure IV
Regen II
Helix
Dark based Sleep
Faster Sublimation



If you had someone in your group who could do one or the other, which would you prefer? Let's assume the setup is...

Ascension:
Nin
Drk
Mnk
Bst
Brd
Whm or Sch

Boss:
Nin
Thf
Mnk
Bst
Brd
Whm or Sch

Which for each and why? My Scholar is rising and currently I do Nyzul as a Whm. Looking for any feedback on experiences, pros/cons, etc on Scholars in Nyzul.

[Meat]

Sch wins both times over

[Valkrish]

Sch wins both times over

Its true.

[Yutuyu]

I don't think it's quite as clearcut as he makes it out to be. Given the setup you're using, the SCH will be the only real source of cures, and WHM/SCH simply unquestionably outperforms SCH there.

The only real advantage SCH has is the nukes on floors with mobs that have heavy physical resistance, but even then, I'm not sure if your SCH will be able to afford switching into 'nuking mode' during those floors.

Our setup is BLM/WHM|SCH RDM/WHM BRD/WHM SAM SAM WAR/THF (for TH). It's nice to have the same amount of status curers as AOE-Status targets. That way we can get rid of paralyze real quickly on Cerberus (considering he's the hardest of all of the bosses) and drop a lot of curagas. SCH won't give curaga natively so I can see that being a big problem considering you're going to have 4 AOE targets. Barspells are also fairly useful for mobs like Fafnir and Cerberus when the damage types are predictable.

Don't forget the usefulness of repose or having benediction for a pinch also. Makes an especially big difference when your melees are using body boost.

[Genosync]

Nyzul doesn't limit you to death like Salvage does, and SCH can perform just as well as a WHM can in that kind of a situation, as long as the player's ability is up to par. Not only that, but the SCH also has more versatility in terms of the tasks they can do.

The only difference is, WHM has a light-type sleep while the SCH does not.

[shaddix]

haste is nice too

[Valkrish]

sch rdm brd dd dd dd :3

[Dammerung]

whm/sch wins

As long as your group is competent and your BRD has at least a storm fife MP is a non-issue. Repose is exceptional to have and aspir works fairly well since none of the mobs you fight on the way up are really that high in level.

[Genosync]

hay guyz I herd SCH has like Thunder IV and WHM doesn't

hay guyz I also herd nyzul isels dont need lots of curing lulz






OOPS I'M SORRY I'M TELLING PEOPLE THEY'RE COMPLETELY WRONG INSTEAD OF TRYING TO GET THEM TO LOOK AT THE VERSATILITY OF A SLOT IN A GROUP THAT MIGHT MAKE THINGS GO FASTER SO SRY I RLY SUK AT FF11 ITS ALL A LIE


</sarcasm>
Does Nyzul need or benefit from having Cure V? No.
Does Nyzul lock your subjob and other shit like Salvage? No.
When both questions are answered with no, SCH > WHM 99.9% of the time. Good day.

<sarcasm>
oh wait guys I'm sorry I forgot that RDM isn't supposed to ever nuke either and they're only supposed to heal, buff, and enfeeble, my bad, I forgot the game doesn't work like that.

edit: inserted sarcasm tags so that people can actually understand me for once

[Liquidedust]

</sarcasm>
Does Nyzul need or benefit from having Cure V? No.
Does Nyzul lock your subjob and other shit like Salvage? No.
When both questions are answered with no, SCH > WHM 99.9% of the time. Good day.

<sarcasm>
oh wait guys I'm sorry I forgot that RDM isn't supposed to ever nuke either and they're only supposed to heal, buff, and enfeeble, my bad, I forgot the game doesn't work like that.

edit: inserted sarcasm tags so that people can actually understand me for once

You usually open a tag before you close it you know <sarcasm></sarcasm>

[orson]

I'd have to say whichever job you're more proficient in and gear quality not that there's probably a huge difference between either of those things. I'd play what I liked the most. Try out both and go from there. Sch takes a bit of micro management to get to full effectiveness but it has that distinct advantage in versatility. Really it doesn't matter much because looking at that set-up you'll be be mostly curing and buffing.

</sarcasm>
Does Nyzul need or benefit from having Cure V? No.
Does Nyzul lock your subjob and other shit like Salvage? No.
When both questions are answered with no, SCH > WHM 99.9% of the time. Good day.

<sarcasm>

Huh?

So you don't think Sch is better than Whm 99.9% of the time? Kinda contradicting yourself from before. As someone said before haste is very nice for Nyzul MeleeBurn Island it'll net you far more damage then Sch's nukes could I'm almost positive.

[Yutuyu]

Does Nyzul need or benefit from having Cure V? No

Care to explain your reasoning on how a cure which generates less enmity, is more MP efficient, and heals for more isn't a benefit?

Does Nyzul lock your subjob and other shit like Salvage? No.

I'm not really sure what this has to do with anything. No locked subjob means that /SCH can access the main benefits SCH would have (sublimation and light arts for MP efficiency namely).

Maybe you're refering to the fact that SCH/WHM gets some curagas and barspells. But you're forgetting that only WHM Barspells have that extra bit of potency and the built in MDB if you merit the proper stuff. Also SCH/WHM is going to have lower curagas, etc.

And if you even sub WHM on SCH to begin with, that's going to seriously hurt your usefulness to do anything but cure on SCH. No natural MAB trait, no gravity, fastcast, etc. I figured you'd be using /rdm naturally.

If you go SCH/WHM you may as well go WHM/SCH, because obviously a job tailored specifically for being the best at healing is superior at it than one tailored at being versitile.

When both questions are answered with no, SCH > WHM 99.9% of the time. Good day.

Your arguments seem to be lacking any substantiation and are instead based upon assumptions you feel are correct without any actual reason. Or maybe I'm just failing to understand your sarcasm tagging.

[TeancumMemsochet]

What I've found from playing both SCH and WHM is that SCH "can" out perform WHM in some situations. But in most Melee heavy situations, WHM is better for the simple fact it has haste. Now if you have a bunch of 2 handers, AoE Enspell "might" be more beneficial.

As for Salvage I'd go RDM > SCH > WHM. This is b/c all 3 can heal just as well. RDM 1st b/c they have native dispel and refresh/convert, and only need SJ/magic to access the -na's. SCH next b/c it also gets dispel and has it's own MP management(Arts -10% cast cost, and Sublimation), but needs more things unlocked to maximize it's potential. And finally WHM, b/c it lacks a bit that's necessary for salvage(self MP management and dispel).

[Dammerung]

/RDM and /SCH get dispel >_>

I've gone RDM to Nyzul and found it annoying compared to WHM. I know how SCH works and it can work as well, but I'd still prefer WHM. Balrahn's Ring + 5tick or greater Ballad and MP is a non-issue, as you're getting back 8ticks+Sublimation. If you don't have a BRD with a Storm Fife, tell them to stop being lazy bastards and get one.

Haste makes WHM and RDM superior to SCH in Nyzul.

[evilpaul]

Maybe you're refering to the fact that SCH/WHM gets some curagas and barspells. But you're forgetting that only WHM Barspells have that extra bit of potency and the built in MDB if you merit the proper stuff. Also SCH/WHM is going to have lower curagas, etc.

WHM's Barspells are only going to be better than a SCH/WHM's Barspells with merits and Relic Legs probably...

[Tsuko_Asura]

Haste makes WHM and RDM superior to SCH in Nyzul.

Dingdingding

We have a winner.

[Genosync]

SCH RDM BRD melee melee melee

think about it, think more closely of the benefits of having extra damage from a job along with other things that it is able to do as well, like Graviga and Bindga and shit

nuking

still can sleep things

still can cure really well

can AoE status cures when necessary

Here, look at it this way.

What can WHM do that Scholar can't?
- Cure V
- Status Cures w/o JA (strategem) use
- Regen III, Raise III
- Light based Sleep
- Haste (this is not an issue however with RDM SCH BRD setup)

these are all things that are not necessary, truly, in Nyzul

What can SCH do that WHM can't?
- Tier IV nukes
- Helices
- AoE status cures without waiting 10 minutes
- AoE any buff (Stoneskin, hi)
- AoE any movement stopping spell (making the lack of light-based sleep a non-issue)
AMONG OTHER THINGS.

SCH has so much more versatility in the slot overall, as long as you go with RDM SCH BRD melee melee melee. It's like having a BLM and a WHM in the same goddamn job, because we all know that RDM does not fit that category perfectly. You don't need massive healing support in Nyzul, you don't need a White Mage. Honestly, if there's no need for Cure Vs somewhere, WHM is seriously teetering on the edge of being a pointless job (and I leveled it to 75 thinking it would be useful for me to have it, too).

Stop thinking so one-sided. People can handle more than just the basic responsibilities, like a devoted slot that only Cures... if they want to actually put forth the effort.

Salvage: WHM plz
Nyzul: WHM gtfo, gimme more versatility out of my party slot

[Nirokun!]

Maybe you're refering to the fact that SCH/WHM gets some curagas and barspells. But you're forgetting that only WHM Barspells have that extra bit of potency and the built in MDB if you merit the proper stuff. Also SCH/WHM is going to have lower curagas, etc.

WHM's Barspells are only going to be better than a SCH/WHM's Barspells with merits and Relic Legs probably...

my whm/sch barspell is 125. light arts, enhancing torque/aug. earring (no cape ), af2 (nq ) legs, briault, tier1 merits, no skill merits.

and geno you cant argue that you have curaga and graviga at the same time darling . You can be sch/rdm and have graviga and strategem dependent curagas, or be sch/whm with no graviga and strategem independent curagas.

<= Nitpicky~<3

[orson]

Geno if you need bindga and graviga on a constant basis your puller sucks and melees might be slow at killing. Also what are you talking about this isn't a question of Whm vs Sch in a Rdm, Brd, 3 DD party. The OP posted his original set-up he doesn't have a Rdm. So what then? Like you say it's not 100% one sided Nyzul isn't that hard either job could work and perform well. You're just trying to at this point.

[GSDragoon]

I've only done Nyzul Assault a few times when it first came out and then once about a month of two ago on floor 80. I was healing on drg/whm and Izzy sat his lazy whm ass by the porter so we could go up asap. Then all he did was haste us for the boss. The mobs are easy enough that almost any job can solo them. They die too fast.