Why isn't SCH used often as a sub?

[Zimbabwe Justice]

This is probably(or most likely) a dumb question, but I don't really understand what's wrong with it. It gets most spells that people need, gives Regen II, and the JAs are pretty sweet. I can imagine Sublimation being pretty handy, too.


So, why doesn't anyone use it?

[Meian]

cba to level it?

No Stoneskin/Blink is painful...




Guess WHM/SCH is best atm?

[Deftscythe]

For Blm, lack of buffs/debuffs(Grav).

For Whm, laziness and resistance to change.

[Zimbabwe Justice]

So for a WHM main it's actually a good sub? Hmm.

[Zosi]

It's a fantastic WHM sub, only time I'm on WHM/somethingelse is when I'm in a hurry and switch to /BLM without thinking, or when I need to warp.

[Fredjan]

It's a fantastic WHM sub, only time I'm on WHM/somethingelse is when I'm in a hurry and switch to /BLM without thinking, or when I need to warp.

QFT.

I'd say /SCH is the best subjob for WHM, while /BLM and /SMN have situational use now. It's not bad for RDM either, but IMO it shines the most on WHM.

/BLM I'd say is for:
- If your group lacks escape/tractor. Warp is a self-utility spell and should never be considered as a reason to sub BLM, as that's a retarded reason.
- If Elemental Seal is useful for helping with enfeebling harder stuff. Bugs me when WHMs forget they have access to enfeebling magic just because there's a RDM around that can do it better.

/SMN I'd say is for:
- When Shining Ruby can be helpful.
- When you're carby pulling.

/SCH I'd say is for:
- Literally everything else.

With light arts up, WHM gains -10% MP cost and -10% spellcasting time. That alone is just from the Light Arts ability. With the level 10/25 JA's, you can half casting time or half MP cost for a strategem charge. With Dark Arts up, WHM gains a respectable dark magic skill and can have decent Aspir returns for even better MP recovery (far more than what /BLM Aspir was ever capable of, even with Elemental Seal). Not to mention Sublimation. Before the update /SCH was really good for WHM. Now, it's even better and easily outperforms /BLM and /SMN, period. The only downslide to this as all users of Sublimation know, you can't have Refresh casted on you while it's up. /SCH also gives higher enhancing skill to help with barspells with Light Arts up, making them even more potent.

BLM/SCH is asking for death in exchange for the best MP conservation (this is, IMO, the definition of /SCH). This is why people compare BLM and SCH as nukers - just because BLM can't gain the conservation ability that SCH has (granted, /SCH only has 2 strategem charges while SCH75 has 4(?)) because SCH doesn't have stoneskin/blink/grav/etc. If BLM could sub SCH and still have defense at least (and by that I mean Stoneskin), it'd probably be the normal subjob of choice and a highly recommended subjob (/RDM would be more useful for solo play, and /WHM'd still have use due to curagas/-nas/Reraise). Stoneskin is that damn good, and I consider it a requirement for a BLM to have and use it. Use it. Cherish it. It's not worth giving up, no matter what you are doing, period (regardless if you get hate or not). Only exception to that would be BLM/NIN, IMO, which does have use. Blink is ok, not very reliable (doesn't even compare to utsusemi), but nice when it procs. /SCH's a nice idea in theory, but needs defensive spells to make it more worthwhile.

[gandorf]

I need to finish sch for my whm only 14 atm. Looks like a great subjob just wish there was a faster way to lv it thru the dunes.

[Therin]

I'd probably go BLM/SCH to something like Cerberus or Khimaira, where BLMs never pull hate anyway due to massive resistance and so on.

[Lordwafik]

No excuse for WHM not to have /sch SJ

It's nice for RDM but you are sacrificing Erase and Viruna in a main healing situation. It's good if you are planning ahead and know you absolutely will not need those spells otherwise newp.

BLM have an excuse - no Stoneskin/Blink/Gravity as well as the reasons it's not flash hot for RDM.

They fixed SCH mainjob and the subjob version of it has much to be desired.

[TeancumMemsochet]

I love WHM/SCH. But at the same time, I generally only am able to go /SCH when I'm not looked at for any sort of enfeebles or Repose, due to the need of ES to land them on a lot of HNMs. But for things like dynamis/limbus or any other sort of endurance fight, I always go /SCH.

[Meat]

I'm not a whm but the loss of es and stoneskin on a lot of hnm fights can be huge.

[TeancumMemsochet]

I'm not a whm but the loss of es and stoneskin on a lot of hnm fights can be huge.

Hmmm, go check your spell lists. WHM doesn't lose SS. WHM actually gets it b4 RDM does. The lose of ES is only noticed if it's needed on a WHM, which in a lot of cases it isn't. The only time I can think I actually need ES as a WHM is when we are at Tiamat or Cerby, and needing ES to land Repose/Slow. Or the occasional mishap where WHMs are called on to Repose(ie someone being stupid and casting on a darter @ faf).

[Aquilo]

This is probably(or most likely) a dumb question, but I don't really understand what's wrong with it. It gets most spells that people need, gives Regen II, and the JAs are pretty sweet. I can imagine Sublimation being pretty handy, too.


So, why doesn't anyone use it?

Blink and Stoneskin.

[stinkypoo]

Fuck /sch, gives me more people to D2 when events are over. =(

[Acturus]

SMN/SCH is also completely awesome when the SMN isn't responsible for a lot of status effects or cure focus. Sublimation alone is worth the sub.

[Fredjan]

I'm not a whm but the loss of es and stoneskin on a lot of hnm fights can be huge.

Hmmm, go check your spell lists. WHM doesn't lose SS. WHM actually gets it b4 RDM does. The lose of ES is only noticed if it's needed on a WHM, which in a lot of cases it isn't. The only time I can think I actually need ES as a WHM is when we are at Tiamat or Cerby, and needing ES to land Repose/Slow. Or the occasional mishap where WHMs are called on to Repose(ie someone being stupid and casting on a darter @ faf).

That's not the first time I've heard "loss of stoneskin" on WHM. >.>

To make it simple;

WHM gets Stoneskin at 28.
RDM gets Stoneskin at 34.

SCH gets Stoneskin... by subbing WHM or RDM. Just like BLM.

No excuse for WHM not to have /sch SJ

Truth.

I'm working on mine still

[Tsukasaz]

SMN/SCH is also completely awesome when the SMN isn't responsible for a lot of status effects or cure focus. Sublimation alone is worth the sub.

The one event I went SMN to since the Elemental Siphon change (Kirin), I had no MP problems whatsoever. Nether Blast > rest > Nether Blast > Cure cure pew pew > Nether Blast > Cure > Elemental Siphon =full MP (with refresh and/or ballad). So fun.

[Linktri]

Anyone that is playing as WHM and doesn't have /SCH
is doing themselves and their LS/party/alliance a HUGE disservice.

[Kaludneisucks]

Anyone that is playing as WHM and doesn't have /SCH
is doing themselves and their LS/party/alliance a HUGE disservice.
Anyone that is playing as WHM and doesn't have /SCH
is doing themselves and their LS/party/alliance a HUGE disservice.

No excuse for WHM not to have /sch SJ

I'd say /SCH is the best subjob for WHM, while /BLM and /SMN have situational use now. It's not bad for RDM either, but IMO it shines the most on WHM.

I don't want to hear it but it seems i must. Unlocking Now. Goddamnit.

[spooky]

/SCH is a nice sub for BLM on things like JoL, (Tiamat etc).
Also in manaburn PT where you can 1shot mobs. (4 BLMs COR BRD)