JoL Tanking PLD/RDM

[tuggler]

I've only tanked JoL once, and that was as PLD/NIN with a mix of MDB/-MDT gear. I didn't die, so must have done something right and the most I took from his AoE's was about 600 HP, but being /NIN did seem kind of useless considering most of his magic was AoE, so I'm looking at doing it as PLD/RDM next time and am looking for advice on what kind of gear I'd need and a few other things. With the current gear I have I can manage 21 MDB/-12 MDT as /RDM. Should I be looking to add elemental resistance gear? If so, how much do you need? Or is it just not worth it considering that he changes elements regularly. Also, is it worth me stacking up MND gear and doing my own stoneskin, or am I better off letting the SMN's do that for me and what about Phalanx? Just leave that to the RDM's?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[tuggler]

Perhaps I should have posted this in "Event Strategies".

[Abraxas]

Just have to wait for the right people to add their input. You will get replies, don't worry.

[tuggler]

Just have to wait for the right people to add their input. You will get replies, don't worry.

Wasn't worried about not getting replies . Just realised after I posted that it may have been in wrong subforum.

[Vistani]

I've only tanked JoL once, and that was as PLD/NIN with a mix of MDB/-MDT gear. I didn't die, so must have done something right and the most I took from his AoE's was about 600 HP, but being /NIN did seem kind of useless considering most of his magic was AoE, so I'm looking at doing it as PLD/RDM next time and am looking for advice on what kind of gear I'd need and a few other things. With the current gear I have I can manage 21 MDB/-12 MDT as /RDM. Should I be looking to add elemental resistance gear? If so, how much do you need? Or is it just not worth it considering that he changes elements regularly. Also, is it worth me stacking up MND gear and doing my own stoneskin, or am I better off letting the SMN's do that for me and what about Phalanx? Just leave that to the RDM's?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

How do you not die to triple aerial collision?

[Judai]

I use a mix of Enmity, Haste and MDB+. I do my own Stoneskin and I swap in MND gear from RDM and Haste, so I can spam it more. SMN Stoneskin would be better but they can't cast it as much as you can and if you have enough MP/Refresh you should be able to spam it and keep it up near fulltime. If my RDMs Phalanx2 beats my Phalanx they use it, if not I use my own. You can also attempt to cast Blink during T4 spells, I usually beat them and it saves alot of MP when Blink absorbs the spell. Also swap to full shield gear when it summons pets and try to save Sentinel for them as well, they very rarely do much damage to me at all. It's quite easy to solo tank although duo is safer.

Elemental gear is shit unless you can hit 300 or so for every element you switch to, which means you need Carol and Barspells as well. It really turned to be more of a hassle/waste and I just ditched trying to use those sets.

[Ruth]

I've only tanked JoL once, and that was as PLD/NIN with a mix of MDB/-MDT gear. I didn't die, so must have done something right and the most I took from his AoE's was about 600 HP, but being /NIN did seem kind of useless considering most of his magic was AoE, so I'm looking at doing it as PLD/RDM next time and am looking for advice on what kind of gear I'd need and a few other things. With the current gear I have I can manage 21 MDB/-12 MDT as /RDM. Should I be looking to add elemental resistance gear? If so, how much do you need? Or is it just not worth it considering that he changes elements regularly. Also, is it worth me stacking up MND gear and doing my own stoneskin, or am I better off letting the SMN's do that for me and what about Phalanx? Just leave that to the RDM's?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

How do you not die to triple aerial collision?

Either luck or you die and get replaced. Thats usually the only way our PLD/RDMs die. As for elemental resistence, ours usually don't bother, just stack on MDB and -magic damage. As for MND, I'm in the "PLDs shouldn't gear blink and cause healers to lose target" school (long time WHM and I darn well hate it, and tolerate it with NINs since it can't be avoided).

[Serif]

When I did tank JoL I hit the hate cap first and then placed Haste in all the spots needed to reach the magic haste cap. Then you can be lazy like me and not put any -magic resistance on and just casting spell after spell after spell or be somewhat useful and replace the other slows with -magic or +mdb.

Either way, you shouldn't lose hate even to DRKs really.

[Raiine]

The only elemental sets I bring are fire and earth, and that's only because I already have full sets for those elements. For the rest I just stack -magic and MDB. I generally don't use much +enmity as it's so easy to cap hate /rdm and you'll be going through 9 summon sets before you have any real competition for hate. By that point hate should be well settled on you.

Unless it's fire or earth and I'm going for 300+, I do my own barspells as they are really good for hate. Other than that, just pace your mp, you don't need to be spamming non stop to maintain hate.

As for aerial collision, you will have sentinel up for every other summon set, for the odd ones with sentinel down, swap to a full shield set. I've yet to die from that.

We typically have one tank for JoL, just make sure your rdm is ready to jump in with a CS dispel to hold it for a bit while you unweaken on the off chance you do go down.

[Berdysh]

You will not find survival on PLD/RDM to be any different than PLD/NIN, really.

RDM Phalanx II, fully merited, should beat out your Phalanx by around 2-3 points unless you are casting in Enhancing skill gear. I prefer to let them keep it up on me and I'll use any conserved MP to cure up souleater melee. Stoneskin isn't necessary for survival, at all. Use magic dmg. reduction/MDB while keeping your HP at a decent level, and there shouldn't ever be a need for anything else. The only way tanks really die to JoL is from triple Aerial Collision, but PLD solves that problem by either throwing up Sentinel or swapping to your physical dmg. reduction/shield set.

[tuggler]

Thanks all for the advice. The gear I used as /NIN and will be using as /RDM:

Macuahuitl +1 (+4 enmity)
Koenig Shield (+3 enmity)
Lamian Kaman +1 (MDB+2)
Iron Ram Sallet (+5 enmity, MDB+3)
Parade Gorget/Harmonia's Torque (+3 enmity)/Shield Gorget
Merman's Earring x2 (MDT -4%) (Loquacious macroed in for spells and might replace one with Ethereal for extra MP).
Valor Surcoat (+4 enmity)
Irom Ram Dastanas (+4 enmity, MDB+2)
Merman's Ring x2 (MDT -8%)
Lamia Mantle +1 (MDB+4) (Cerb Mantle macroed in for hate-generating actions)
Swift Belt (Haste +4%)
Homam Cosciales (Haste +3%)
Gallant Leggings +1 (I do have those new feet you get from the slug NM in WoTG, but don't like the 4% Slow on them and want to avoid blinking too much). Might just swap these for Valor Leggings next time, except when adds pop.

That's a total of +23/24 enmity, plus full merits, MDT -12%, MDB +21, 7% Haste, 21% Fast Cast/10% recast reduction.

Anything you'd recommend replacing?

I've noticed that my enhancing magic is about 35 levels from cap for PLD, so am going to have to spend some time spamming that before we go again.

[Suiram]

Resentment cape for Lamia +1, and if you're macroing in +enmity for hate spells anyway like you said, could get the Iron Ram lance for taking damage and macro in macu and shield for generating hate. The ringsx2+earringsx2+cape+lance will put you right at magic damage taken cap with shell 5 1/3 (actually 1/256 over the cap), and if your WHM happens to have 3/3 you could lose one of the earrings for the Etherial while maintaining cap.

[Dioma]

Thanks all for the advice. The gear I used as /NIN and will be using as /RDM:

Macuahuitl +1 (+4 enmity)
Koenig Shield (+3 enmity)
Lamian Kaman +1 (MDB+2)
Iron Ram Sallet (+5 enmity, MDB+3)
Parade Gorget/Harmonia's Torque (+3 enmity)/Shield Gorget
Merman's Earring x2 (MDT -4%) (Loquacious macroed in for spells and might replace one with Ethereal for extra MP).
Valor Surcoat (+4 enmity)
Irom Ram Dastanas (+4 enmity, MDB+2)
Merman's Ring x2 (MDT -8%)
Lamia Mantle +1 (MDB+4) (Cerb Mantle macroed in for hate-generating actions)
Swift Belt (Haste +4%)
Homam Cosciales (Haste +3%)
Gallant Leggings +1 (I do have those new feet you get from the slug NM in WoTG, but don't like the 4% Slow on them and want to avoid blinking too much). Might just swap these for Valor Leggings next time, except when adds pop.

That's a total of +23/24 enmity, plus full merits, MDT -12%, MDB +21, 7% Haste, 21% Fast Cast/10% recast reduction.

Anything you'd recommend replacing?

I've noticed that my enhancing magic is about 35 levels from cap for PLD, so am going to have to spend some time spamming that before we go again.

I'm a taru PLD myself and the only MDB piece of gear I use for JoL is Kaman +1, I full time Glt. Leggings +1 on JoL for the summons because it's such a boring fight and I don't feel like switching gear. I'd keep Ethereal on in the earring slot too especially if you have DRKs since when we have DRKs, I usually have them rotate Souleater meleeing while I heal them. (Just normal Scythe/GS melee since no KC/MK/BZ for them usually) With Ares' Cuirass, I have no problems keeping up my MP healing 2 DRKs, myself, and still casting Dispel Flash etc.

[Devinry]

Just to reiterate Suiram's point, I know you mentioned not wanting to blink, but if you're willing to tolerate a single blink before spells, throw an Iron Ram Lance into your MDef set. It's a pretty substantial boost to -magic damage taken and it's cheap money.

[Raiine]

Could probably use a Resolute Belt in there in place of Swift, since you are stacking MDB over haste.

[Suiram]

I didn't notice that he'd mentioned he didn't want to blink, when I suggested I.R. Lance. However, I don't know that JoL is really one of those fights you have to worry about blinking. You aren't ever in real danger of dying quickly, except from Astral Flow, and in that case you could just avoid blinking when he summons or something.

And even if you were still intent on not blinking, the question is between generating 5.8% more hate per action, or (assuming resentment cape and Shell V 1/3) taking 15.8% less damage--and as a result losing 15.8% less enmity taking damage. But that goes to subtle questions about the mechanics of PLD/RDM tanking, I'd probably imagine that taking less damage is better, since it does not seem hard for PLD/RDM to cap hate, and hate issues on JoL only seem to arise when both tanks and melee are capped and a spell knocks a tank down below melee on the hate list for a few seconds. Maybe someone has a different take than this though.

[tuggler]

Suiram, some great suggestions there, thanks. As for the blinking point, the only blinking I don't like doing really is for the constantly repeated actions (Utsusemi, Flash and Cures). The macros I use for those only contain invisible gear swaps. I have no problems with blinking for JA's or differing sets of situational gear. Iron Ram Lance looks too good to pass up on.

[Khelek]

For long fights like this, if your healers don't have a /ma "cure #" name macro, or <p#>... get other healers! really, you should be able to blink as much as you'd like.

[Kayos]

This doesn't really answer your question but I love going pld/rdm to JoL because it makes it even more of a joke to tank then it already is. And helps keep me from falling asleep

[Vail]

I always pulled the sharks with diaga on rdm/nin (from outside the ally) and tank them for mass aga nuking, I think only one time I saw a pld get hit with aerial collisions and this was over 6 JoLs.

Most of the time I'd die, but that's because I only have -25% damage taken, 390 defense and a meer 1134 HP. Most of the time I was barely killed over my max HP, and one time I accually lived and got killed by a melee attack that followed right away.

I've seen other linkshell's plds go down to aerial collision but, I would think it wouldn't be too hard for a PLD to gear up to live through that kinda attack, since they have so much more HP and defense then rdm.