RDM melee setup part II - Not so lol

[Redness]

Ok, yes it is still lol. Shut up.

Threads that are relevant to this one:

(lol)melee RDM gear setup
Mandau Questions

So here I am again (I promise this is the last time on this subject) trying to hammer out a final gear set to work for.

My Mandau has begun, I've been farming/buying currency as I have the gil for it, and at this rate it's going to take 7-9 months at the current rate. Not so bad. So I need to hammer this set in stone so I have something to work for besides my next 100mil gil. (Farming all day will drive you totally fucking mad.) Now on to the good shit:

I'm looking for math, opinions, and whatever else you have to say (besides lolRDMmelee, I've got enough of that from my server population/friends list as it is.)

Anyway, here's what I've got so far;

TP:

Mandau, Joyeuse, Blank, Tiphia Sting
Walmart hat, Pcharm, suppa, brutal
Goliard Saio, Dusk+1, Toreadors, Toreadors
Cerb+1, V. Belt, Nashira, Dusk+1

( http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?169281 (lolalla etc. but their gear spreadsheet thing is very nice and organized.))

Food of choice is most likely always going to be sushi. Depending on mob may swap hat and body for AF2 and Morrigan's respectively, depending on if the MP is needed, I'm solo, etc. in exchange for haste. (Though goodbye 9 haste, meh.)

WS (Evisceration):

Mandau, Joyeuse, Blank, Tiphia Sting
Ohat, Love torque, hollow earring, brutal
Pahluhwan/SH+1/thatnew8acc8dex8evasionbody(?), Tarasque+1, Toreadors, Rajas
Cerb+1, Potent, Volunteer's Brais, Rutters.

( http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?188895 )

Though as said in the Mandau thread, Mercy sucks without SA/TA/THF Main/etc. I'd still like a gear setup for it. Would there be a point in WSing in Morrigan's body, losing accuracy but gaining attack and STR? Use same set as for Evisc? More opinions welcome here.

As I see it, there's never enough accuracy with a B skill weapon, hence the sushi full-time. Shit is situational and etc. but I'd rather hit the mob than whif, because whif is no damage, but hit, even with low attack is damage + enspell proc.

Please contribute any other advice or options for gear in there you would like. I'm only wanting the absolute best, saddly Mar's ring is out of the question or I'd have that up there too (it's all jobs, right? >.>

How many hits with a Mandau does it take to get 100 TP? Assuming you don't whif (which I will.) Add in dual-wield and suppa since I know those lower delay which lowers TP gain (pretend that joytoy doesn't double attack at all, and it's just a normal sword to make shit easier), but I'm not aware of how much, and I'm not too good with melee math (which is why I'm here obviously.)

RDM kills shit by annoying it to death, I'm not asking anyone to tell me how much more damage I would get out of leveling a DD job and pimping it out. My goal isn't to be an omgwtf DD, it's to play my job (the way I want to play it) as efficiently as possible. No I'm not gonna bust out my dagger in the middle of Einherjar or some shit, and if you're a new RDM reading this thread, for the love of god don't try and imitate me because you're going to get shot down very quickly by whoever you're with if you bust out a dagger/sword when you should be casting spells. My main focus is solo, and that's where this all comes into play.

Thanks again,
Red

[fantasticdan]

RDM kills shit by annoying it to death, I'm not asking anyone to tell me how much more damage I would get out of leveling a DD job and pimping it out. My goal isn't to be an omgwtf DD, it's to play my job (the way I want to play it) as efficiently as possible. No I'm not gonna bust out my dagger in the middle of Einherjar or some shit, and if you're a new RDM reading this thread, for the love of god don't try and imitate me because you're going to get shot down very quickly by whoever you're with if you bust out a dagger/sword when you should be casting spells. My main focus is solo, and that's where this all comes into play.

Thanks again,
Red

So you're going to get a mandau to farm easy mobs slightly faster than you could otherwise on rdm? On anything that matters solo, you aren't going to be meleeing it. I also would question if mandau/joy is even much(if any) better than joy/justice on non weak to piercing mobs in the first place.

[CelinaAlexander]

Morrigan's Robe >>>>>>> Goliard Saio, imo

The stat boosts are crazy and the Refresh is sexy. Then again not everyone has access to Morrigan's. I think if anything, Goliard should be swapped in for recasts only, and even then only if you don't have Relic Body.

[Redness]

RDM kills shit by annoying it to death, I'm not asking anyone to tell me how much more damage I would get out of leveling a DD job and pimping it out. My goal isn't to be an omgwtf DD, it's to play my job (the way I want to play it) as efficiently as possible. No I'm not gonna bust out my dagger in the middle of Einherjar or some shit, and if you're a new RDM reading this thread, for the love of god don't try and imitate me because you're going to get shot down very quickly by whoever you're with if you bust out a dagger/sword when you should be casting spells. My main focus is solo, and that's where this all comes into play.

Thanks again,
Red

So you're going to get a mandau to farm easy mobs slightly faster than you could otherwise on rdm? On anything that matters solo, you aren't going to be meleeing it. I also would question if mandau/joy is even much(if any) better than joy/justice on non weak to piercing mobs in the first place.

No, I'm going to what you think I can't do with it. But I'm not going to say what that is because if I do, and then don't do it I'll look like an idiot, but if I don't say it and then do, do it, it's going to be something new that hasn't been tried before (to the majority's knowledge.)

The choice for the dagger is not the point of this discussion, I could just as easily use a Blau Dolch. But then again I could just as easily use woodsman rings instead of sniper+1/toreadors, and I could just use an NQ SH, and use a swift belt instead of a V. belt, and NQ dusk instead of HQ.

But then what have you got?

Morrigan's Robe >>>>>>> Goliard Saio, imo

The stat boosts are crazy and the Refresh is sexy. Then again not everyone has access to Morrigan's. I think if anything, Goliard should be swapped in for recasts only, and even then only if you don't have Relic Body.

Goliard is a great casting piece for any non stat-enhanced spell, for recast and conserve MP (lol) but the difference between it and AF2 body is that haste works for melee swings. As far as I know there's only two bodies with haste on them for other jobs, DRG AF(2?)+1 (2% haste) and that THF body which is also 4% I believe.

I'd like to ask once again that you (you being anyone) don't turn this thread into a "why are you doing this, you're a noob/idiot etc." thread. I've been playing for more than 3 years now, I know what is lol and what is not. Just be glad I'm not doing Claustrum and begging for melee SMN advice.

You all laugh at me, but look at Izzy. Dedication, and patience worked out and Izzy finally got the relic club. Does it help with the casting of white mage spells? Hell no. Does it matter to Izzy what you think of the idea of a melee WHM? I don't know but I'm going to venture a guess and say no.

Thanks,
Red

[Onorgul]

Nashira Manteel and Sha'ir/Sheikh Manteel also have Haste, not that it's terribly important.

[Redness]

Nashira Manteel and Sha'ir/Sheikh Manteel also have Haste, not that it's terribly important.

I stand corrected. 5 bodies with haste on them.

[CelinaAlexander]

Well, just because it's one of the only bodies that have Haste isn't a good reason to use it. I'm no king of FFXI calculations but something tells me +8 STR +5ACC(this is important as a RDM)/ATT and Refresh will outdo Goliard's 4% Haste. That's not to say that Goliard isn't a great body piece, I'd just prefer Morrigan's more, personally.

(ignoring x/1024 values due to laziness, this is close enough)
W.hat is 5% haste
Dusk+1 hands are 4% haste
Speed/Vel Belt are 6% haste
Nashira Serawheels are 2% haste
Dusk+1 feet are 3% haste

That's a total of 20% haste, which I think is more than enough for a melee RDM, especially with haste spell on top of that for a nice 35% haste. True that 39% haste would be ~10% faster killspeed wise (before taking into account Morrigan stat bonuses, which probably wouldn't make up much of a difference) I still think the added survivability and versatility of Refresh over the course of 8 minutes 20 seconds (assuming capped Convert merits too), which comes out to an additional ~167 MP, would outweigh the haste. 167 MP is equal to an extra Blizzard III and Cure IV, or however you want to look at it.

[Loren]

TP set looks great. I use Hollow earring and Fencer ring-- synergizes nicely with all that Haste (Brutal is diluted somewhat with Joyeuse). Be sure your +Enhancing swap is solid as well. Added effect damage should be 27-33 depending on day/weather procs under these conditions. There is basically no amount of Attack that can simulate this benefit.

Accuracy issues are always relative to the mob of course, but sushi is powerful stuff--you shouldn't need gobs of accuracy for weaponskills. If you plan on fighting not-so-high level targets then it's good to have a high damage set.

DEX is the only attribute guaranteed to raise Evis damage (Cotehardie, AF+1 gloves etc.). STR and Attack are also great when you can find them in large quantities, just be aware that they can cap on low level mobs. I'm pretty sure Mercy Stroke is pure STR-whoring, but I'll let others chime in on that.

[Thorny]

Didn't you tell me you were scared of vulpangue because you had no haste body? I don't recall you having any hq dusk either.. or half of the nonmandau gear for that matter <_>

[Redness]

Well, just because it's one of the only bodies that have Haste isn't a good reason to use it. I'm no king of FFXI calculations but something tells me +8 STR +5ACC(this is important as a RDM)/ATT and Refresh will outdo Goliard's 4% Haste. That's not to say that Goliard isn't a great body piece, I'd just prefer Morrigan's more, personally.

(ignoring x/1024 values due to laziness, this is close enough)
W.hat is 5% haste
Dusk+1 hands are 4% haste
Speed/Vel Belt are 6% haste
Nashira Serawheels are 2% haste
Dusk+1 feet are 3% haste

That's a total of 20% haste, which I think is more than enough for a melee RDM, especially with haste spell on top of that for a nice 35% haste. True that 39% haste would be ~10% faster killspeed wise (before taking into account Morrigan stat bonuses, which probably wouldn't make up much of a difference) I still think the added survivability and versatility of Refresh over the course of 8 minutes 20 seconds (assuming capped Convert merits too), which comes out to an additional ~167 MP, would outweigh the haste. 167 MP is equal to an extra Blizzard III and Cure IV, or however you want to look at it.

1st. Link to lolmelee rdm setup thread uno has been fixed since search is working now.

I agree that the added refresh coupled with slight melee stat increase is a very good option.

Depending on mob may swap hat and body for AF2 and Morrigan's respectively, depending on if the MP is needed, I'm solo, etc. in exchange for haste. (Though goodbye 4-9% haste, meh.)

Shit is situational etc. You could technically cap out haste on RDM at 26% in besieged with that crappy haste shield and goliard body (since iirc gear cap is like 25.5% so you need the actual 26% to cap.)

TP set looks great. I use Hollow earring and Fencer ring-- synergizes nicely with all that Haste (Brutal is diluted somewhat with Joyeuse). Be sure your +Enhancing swap is solid as well. Added effect damage should be 27-33 depending on day/weather procs under these conditions. There is basically no amount of Attack that can simulate this benefit.

Accuracy issues are always relative to the mob of course, but sushi is powerful stuff--you shouldn't need gobs of accuracy for weaponskills. If you plan on fighting not-so-high level targets then it's good to have a high damage set.

DEX is the only attribute guaranteed to raise Evis damage (Cotehardie, AF+1 gloves etc.). STR and Attack are also great when you can find them in large quantities, just be aware that they can cap on low level mobs. I'm pretty sure Mercy Stroke is pure STR-whoring, but I'll let others chime in on that.

I swap in +43 enhancing for enspells/phalanx. Sushi is extremely awesome, as are merits. My gear right now is very far from what I have outlined in the OP. Like I said I need something to do inbetween my gil-making activities to keep my sanity up. Q_Q

I plan on fighting harder stuff. If I was planing on fighting weaker mobs, I simply wouldn't care as, as the second post in this thread quite blatantly pointed out, the shit dies fast enough as it is.

I was informed that, having a B skill in dagger, on top of a 5hit(6) weapon skill, accuracy would be a problem seeing as how missing even one of those hits has a greater impact on the overall damage than the boost you got from whatever attack/str/dex to the hits that did land.

If I was fighting something of a much higher level, I would leave an entire accuracy build on with disregard for haste, except maybe in the belt slot. (6%wtf) Feet and hands don't have much in the way of accuracy for RDM, aside from morrigan's on hands.

I appreciate the responses! But yeah, this is aimed toward a higher level set of mobs. Even though I technically shouldn't be meleeing them according to whatshisname above. (Who seems to have a history for bashing mages with DD relics. Bash staff all you want, it really is shit. But don't bash what a RDM can do solo, even meleeing. amiright?)

P.S. Thorny stay out of my thread. Talk shit in game if you want, I don't need your uselessness here. Thanks.

[fantasticdan]

I appreciate the responses! But yeah, this is aimed toward a higher level set of mobs. Even though I technically shouldn't be meleeing them according to whatshisname above. (Who seems to have a history for bashing mages with DD relics. Bash staff all you want, it really is shit. But don't bash what a RDM can do solo, even meleeing. amiright?)

I'm pretty sure he's using ceremonial dagger in that video to hit for 0.

[Redness]

I appreciate the responses! But yeah, this is aimed toward a higher level set of mobs. Even though I technically shouldn't be meleeing them according to whatshisname above. (Who seems to have a history for bashing mages with DD relics. Bash staff all you want, it really is shit. But don't bash what a RDM can do solo, even meleeing. amiright?)

I'm pretty sure he's using ceremonial dagger in that video to hit for 0.

You are correct. I was making an example that whacking away at something can be useful. I did not say I was going to go try and kill ash dragon all wtfpwn style with a mandau and a melee build. It's quite obvious that getting hit with voidsong would suck, and curse would suck even more (to the point that you're now going to die.)

Continue trolling.

[fantasticdan]

How exactly was that trolling? I was just pointing out that it does not help your argument. Yes there are situations where hitting for 0 and dealing damage with enspell is a good strategy for solo, but that has nothing to do with mandau.

[Onorgul]

Incidentally, even though you're staying on the down-low about what your plans are with this, I'd be worried about hitting for incredibly low damage with this build. There's not a whole lot of Attack/STR in that build and, although I'm sure you plan to rely a fair bit on enspell damage, I can't see Mandau justifying itself well. Just a thought, though.

[Wizerd]

Incidentally, even though you're staying on the down-low about what your plans are with this, I'd be worried about hitting for incredibly low damage with this build. There's not a whole lot of Attack/STR in that build and, although I'm sure you plan to rely a fair bit on enspell damage, I can't see Mandau justifying itself well. Just a thought, though.

I agree with this. 20% haste is great but when you're hitting for shit, even with Mandau, it's not really worth it. Look into that whole fSTR thing and make sure you're above that certain line, get a decent bit of attack in there, and then slap haste in the other slots.

If you wanted to enspell things to death you'd be upgrading Excalibur, not Mandau.

Also, I think Redness wants a relic because all of his friends seem to be getting one. Even me. =P
Joking, calm down Red. Give me that Macha's coat.

[Shuemue]

How exactly was that trolling? I was just pointing out that it does not help your argument. Yes there are situations where hitting for 0 and dealing damage with enspell is a good strategy for solo, but that has nothing to do with mandau.

You weren't trolling, he was being defensive and obtuse. A Mandau would 100% have got Avesta raped there, so it's not terribly relevant.

[Thorny]

How exactly was that trolling? I was just pointing out that it does not help your argument. Yes there are situations where hitting for 0 and dealing damage with enspell is a good strategy for solo, but that has nothing to do with mandau.

You weren't trolling, he was being defensive and obtuse. A Mandau would 100% have got Avesta raped there, so it's not terribly relevant.

Mmm, he's rather full of himself considering last I checked he's not even capped on magey AH gear.. anyone can tell themselves they'll grind despot and zip for 9 months to get a melee rdm toy, but actually doing it and continuing to sell gems without killing market is a different matter.

[theo]

AJ isn't a bad option for evisceration. Thats what I used to go with anyway, back when I was into the whole melee RDM thing.

[Max™]

How to suck less as a melee: Know your foe.

Find out as much about these four stats it has, as you can, Vit, Agi, Def, Eva.

It's Vit is important because if you can't get your Str higher than that, you will suffer a penalty on your weapon damage, conversely, the higher your Str gets compared to its Vit, the more base damage you add on.

It's Def is a bit less important if you're relying on enspells/poison/etc, because where Str vs Vit gives the lowest and highest numbers you will hit for, Att vs Def tells you where you will wind up between them generally.

Agi effects your Critical hit rates, this matters for Evisceration quite a bit, you want just enough Accuracy to land your hits, and as much Dex as you can get since it's not only a WS modifier (which adds the given % of that stat to your weapons damage, with a bit of level base conversion), but it Dex vs Agi determines your crit rates.

Eva is related to Agi, and is simplest to get, if it's too evasive, you ain't hittin shit, and everything I just said flies right out the window.

If you want more technical breakdowns, just ask, but I must say I'm curious what Mandau would enhance with a higher level solo enough to make it worth it, but I'm not big on questioning relic choices, been rooting Izzy on since I found out he was upgrading.

[Therin]

I don't understand why you would get a Mandau over an Excalibur if you wanted to melee. It's much stronger and gives you much greater benefits, plus you can use a Fortitude Torque instead of a Peacock Charm and only merit one weapon rather than two.

250-300 damage add effects and 20/tick regen.