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  1. #1
    Old Merits
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    Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/30/...rss_topstories

    Man who killed burglary suspects cleared

    Story Highlights
    • Joe Horn fatally shot two men he believed burglarized his neighbor's home[/*:m:1x3s37i7]
    • Slayings came after Horn told 911 dispatcher he was going to shoot suspects[/*:m:1x3s37i7]
    • In some cases, deadly force to protect a neighbor's property legal in Texas[/*:m:1x3s37i7]
    • Civil rights activists alleged killings were racially motivated[/*:m:1x3s37i7]


    HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- A Texas man who shot and killed two men he suspected of burglarizing his neighbor's home was cleared in the shootings Monday by a grand jury.

    Joe Horn, 61, shot the two men in November after he saw them crawling out the windows of a neighbor's house in the Houston suburb of Pasadena.

    Horn called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill the men. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

    "The message we're trying to send today is the criminal justice system works," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson said.

    Horn's attorney, Tom Lambright, has said his client believed the two men had broken into his neighbor's home and that he shot them only when they came into his yard and threatened him.

    The two Horn suspected of committing burglary, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

    The episode touched off protests from civil rights activists who said the shooting was racially motivated and that Horn took the law into his own hands. Horn's supporters defended his actions, saying he was protecting himself and being a good neighbor to a homeowner who was out of town.

    "I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson said. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."

    Lambright did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment from The Associated Press.

    Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect a neighbor's property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town.

    It's not clear whether the neighbor whose home was burglarized asked Horn to watch over his house.

  2. #2
    The Optimistic Asshole
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    God Bless Texas!

  3. #3

    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Bit bullshit if you ask me. He shot them in the back--that's not self defense.

  4. #4
    The Optimistic Asshole
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Bit bullshit if you ask me. He shot them in the back--that's not self defense.
    It's Texas, what did you expect out of a jury (of probably white males) in a state overrun by illegal aliens in one of the most pro-capital punishment states in the U.S. I'd of had to motion for a change of venue if I were the defense. Deliberation probably took all of 36 seconds.

    Shit, nevermind, I must be off my rocker, he was being prosecuted against...god damn I'm fucking losing it.

  5. #5
    Ridill
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    But they stole his neighbors stuff and would have gotten away with it if the neighbor hadn't recovered the property for him. It was a close call, and I'll bet the neighbor was thankful.

    As for whether the value of the property they were attempting to steal was worth their lives, that's a decision only they can make.

    Some people put the burden of that decision on the one with the gun. In my opinion, the burden of that decision lies with the thief. Any thief should break into a home accepting the possibility of injury or death. Whether their own life is worth the property they wish to steal is a decision they make prior to committing the theft. It's a gamble they took, and it didn't pay off.

    If they didn't want to get hurt, they could have just... you know... not broken into someone's home. It's on par with the decapitated rollercoaster kid, in my mind.

  6. #6
    blax n gunz
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Motherfuck a window. Radio Raheem is dead.

  7. #7
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    That is what they get for trying to break into someone's home.

    Not that I think that breaking and entering/theft is good cause for death...

    But shit happens.

  8. #8
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Godfucking dammit, no no no no no no.

    1- did not have consent of neighbors to protect their property. this is required by Castle Doctrine
    2- ignored directions from 911 dispatcher to stay in side. the 911 dispatcher said this 9 times
    3- shot the men in the back as they were fleeing
    4- flat out told the 911 dispatcher that he was going to kill the men
    5- there was a plainclothes officer on the scene when the man was firing his shotgun
    6- Horn instigated the violence by leaving the house and confronting the two men. This also violates Castle Doctrine.


    On top of it all?

    Suspects were black. Big fucking surprise the fucker is a hero and walks free in his Texas hometown.

  9. #9
    Ridill
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Azalee
    That is what they get for trying to break into someone's home.

    Not that I think that breaking and entering/theft is good cause for death...

    But shit happens.
    And just to clarify my own point of view, I would never consider theft worthy of the death penalty. I don't think theft is worth someone getting killed.

    On the other hand, if it does end up happening, I'd just chalk it up to an accident and not prosecute the neighbor/homeowner involved. It may not have been an actual "accident" per se, but you never know how people will react when they catch you and it was an outcome that could have been prevented by simply not breaking into the home in the first place.

  10. #10
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Burglarizing sounds too horrible to be a real word.

  11. #11
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    It could have been prevented if that shitty old man had just followed directions and stayed in his house.

  12. #12
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    didn't see it in the OP or the link, this is the first I've heard of it(I don't watch TV) LOL at the 911 call http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jqLie6-Y0

  13. #13

    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Just to clarify my own point of view, I would never consider tailgating worthy of the death penalty. I don't think a bit of bumper paint is worth someone getting killed.

    On the other hand, if it does end up happening, I'd just chalk it up to an accident and not prosecute the driver involved. It may not have been an actual "accident" per se, but you never know how people will react when you brake-check them, and it was an outcome that could have been prevented by simply not driving like a granny in the first place.

  14. #14
    Ridill
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Just to clarify my own point of view, I would never consider tailgating worthy of the death penalty. I don't think a bit of bumper paint is worth someone getting killed.

    On the other hand, if it does end up happening, I'd just chalk it up to an accident and not prosecute the driver involved. It may not have been an actual "accident" per se, but you never know how people will react when you brake-check them, and it was an outcome that could have been prevented by simply not driving like a granny in the first place.
    Is driving like a granny a felony? At least use an example from the following selection, if you're going to make an analogy like that: assault/battery, arson, murder, rape, kidnapping.

    Those are felonies like burglary/robbery. Tailgating and driving like a granny aren't exactly in the same league.

  15. #15
    Nidhogg
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckwin
    It could have been prevented if that shitty old man had just followed directions and stayed in his house.
    Or if the shitty thief had just followed the law and stayed in his house.

  16. #16
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lordwafik
    Burglarizing sounds too horrible to be a real word.
    It is a real word, sadly.

  17. #17
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampdonkeyPLD
    Quote Originally Posted by Beckwin
    It could have been prevented if that shitty old man had just followed directions and stayed in his house.
    Or if the shitty thief had just followed the law and stayed in his house.
    True, but that doesn't make murder an acceptable response to thievery, especially when you're in no physical danger from the robbers and it's not even your shit they're stealing. Pretty interesting that they were supposedly advancing on his property yet he shot them in the back. Moonwalking burglars?

  18. #18
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuri-G
    Quote Originally Posted by SwampdonkeyPLD
    Quote Originally Posted by Beckwin
    It could have been prevented if that shitty old man had just followed directions and stayed in his house.
    Or if the shitty thief had just followed the law and stayed in his house.
    True, but that doesn't make murder an acceptable response to thievery, especially when you're in no physical danger from the robbers and it's not even your shit they're stealing. Pretty interesting that they were supposedly advancing on his property yet he shot them in the back. Moonwalking burglars?
    I didn't mean to imply that it's acceptable, just that the thieves made a decision and are responsible for what happens to them as well.

  19. #19

    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamsin
    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Just to clarify my own point of view, I would never consider tailgating worthy of the death penalty. I don't think a bit of bumper paint is worth someone getting killed.

    On the other hand, if it does end up happening, I'd just chalk it up to an accident and not prosecute the driver involved. It may not have been an actual "accident" per se, but you never know how people will react when you brake-check them, and it was an outcome that could have been prevented by simply not driving like a granny in the first place.
    Is driving like a granny a felony? At least use an example from the following selection, if you're going to make an analogy like that: assault/battery, arson, murder, rape, kidnapping.

    Those are felonies like burglary/robbery. Tailgating and driving like a granny aren't exactly in the same league.
    Same league? I'm just pointing out ad absurdum how empty your argument is. It can be word-substituted to justify any kind of consequence to someone doing anything against the law. Try inserting "littering" or "noise violation" or similar nuisance-crime.

  20. #20
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    Re: Get off my neighbors lawn (or why I live in TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampdonkeyPLD
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuri-G
    Quote Originally Posted by SwampdonkeyPLD
    Quote Originally Posted by Beckwin
    It could have been prevented if that shitty old man had just followed directions and stayed in his house.
    Or if the shitty thief had just followed the law and stayed in his house.
    True, but that doesn't make murder an acceptable response to thievery, especially when you're in no physical danger from the robbers and it's not even your shit they're stealing. Pretty interesting that they were supposedly advancing on his property yet he shot them in the back. Moonwalking burglars?
    I didn't mean to imply that it's acceptable, just that the thieves made a decision and are responsible for what happens to them as well.
    Oh, then I misread you, sorry. Yes, yes they are.

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