Your opinion on dual boxed characters.

[Aksannyi]

Specifically, how you handle it in regards to points/drops. This has come up for me and a few people I know recently, and wondering how people handle it.

~Do you give dual boxed people points?
~Do you treat them as though they're there?
~What about players who share accounts, not playing their own account but their friend's so friend can get an item if it drops?
~What if someone is dual boxed and they're up for a drop? Do they get it?
~If John takes a few months break but Jim plays his character, who gets the points?
~What are the consequences if someone has been "RPing" as the person who owns the account, but isn't the original player and is discovered?

Basically wondering what people's thoughts are on this in terms of lotting rights and gaining points, and what happens when people are discovered to be dual collecting points and other such shady things.

[drewbixcube]

I don't like 2boxing at big events(I'm not really that talented at it), but I've only ever asked to lot on freelot items. I would never put a secondary character before a main character for an item that matters.

[Therin]

Dual-boxed characters should only be given gear after everyone else at the event has gotten the item, and it would have otherwise been freelot. The only exception to this rule is when a person has been up for a certain item for a long time and it is common knowledge to the rest of the linkshell. Someone logs this person on specifically to lot this rare item (something like a D.Ring for the linkshell's main PLD) and his attendance is strong otherwise. If it's a purely secondary character or a character that never attends, it shouldn't be lotting.

Also, if you discover someone trying to sneak into events for credit on a friend's account they should be immediately reprimanded or kicked, depending on the person's behavior otherwise (first offense, etc.).

[Aksannyi]

Yeah, I'm basically talking about other people's mains that are being dual-boxed by another LS member or played entirely by another LS member. Sharing accouts, basically. Not mules/secondary characters.

[jurjur]

~no
~no
~if the friend is in the LS and deserves more than real players that are present, sure -- if you use point system, then points will come from person who is controlling that char
~see above
~jim
~if you have people who do this kind of crap in your LS, you have more problems to worry about, in the meantime /breaklinkshell

[S N K]

Dual-boxed characters should only be given gear after everyone else at the event has gotten the item, and it would have otherwise been freelot. The only exception to this rule is when a person has been up for a certain item for a long time and it is common knowledge to the rest of the linkshell. Someone logs this person on specifically to lot this rare item (something like a D.Ring for the linkshell's main PLD) and his attendance is strong otherwise. If it's a purely secondary character or a character that never attends, it shouldn't be lotting.

Also, if you discover someone trying to sneak into events for credit on a friend's account they should be immediately reprimanded or kicked, depending on the person's behavior otherwise (first offense, etc.).

This.

Edit: I knew someone in my previous shell that while she wasn't a Dual Box, She had two characters on the same account. One being a WAR with a Ridill and another which was originally a Cooking Mule.

It turns out that even tho her PLD and WAR were very well geared up, more people wanted her mule which ended up being a merited WHM at events more then her WAR. There was some stupid crap about her not being allowed to lot the Relic Body for WHM along with others at the time which I thought was stupid considering she was on her WHM more then her WAR and showed up on that job more then her other character.

I don't know how it panned out in the end but I didn't think she was treated fairly seeing as she worked hard to gear up that character so it could be of use in events.

imo if a person does the work and they want an item for that character then it should be no contest.

Piss on anyone who says otherwise.

[octopus]

Allowing dual-boxed characters to lot important items will just lead to pointless drama. If that item is that important, show up to the event.

[Maxxthepenguin]

1. Do you give dual boxed people points?
2. Do you treat them as though they're there?
3. What about players who share accounts, not playing their own account but their friend's so friend can get an item if it drops?
4. What if someone is dual boxed and they're up for a drop? Do they get it?
5. If John takes a few months break but Jim plays his character, who gets the points?
6. What are the consequences if someone has been "RPing" as the person who owns the account, but isn't the original player and is discovered?

1. The dual boxxer gets the points, not the dual boxee
2. Nope
3. Depends if that friend deserved it. I mean logging on a friend and getting that friend an item that he worked so hard to get, that's ok. Somebody missing 1/10 of the time should have a shot over people who happen to be there 8/10 of the time, but are there that 1 time it drops.
4. See above. If somebody deserves it, somebody deserves it.
5. Jim, but if he uses both at once he doesn't deserve double points.
6. Something bad.

These are the problems of creating a system based on concrete rules and numbers (IE a point system) instead of judges (IE leaders decide.) You need rules for cases and exceptions and details and all that bullshit for a concrete rule system, and even then you will probably miss something, leading the the system being able to be 'gamed' to get what people want by contributing less. That's not to say a judge based system doesn't have issues too, there you have a system where it can be hard to seem fair at times and it's entirely possible to have a poor leader screw things up. They both have their ups and downs.


Of course, for one person who just uses two characters (due to friend quitting, 2nd character, wanting a galka love slave, etc) then you just treat as one character for things with the possible exception of ZNM, since they literally do twice the work and are twice as efficient for it.

[Aelyssa]

The only exception to this rule is when a person has been up for a certain item for a long time and it is common knowledge to the rest of the linkshell. Someone logs this person on specifically to lot this rare item (something like a D.Ring for the linkshell's main PLD) and his attendance is strong otherwise.

^ was the case basically. A dynamis zone was changed kinda last minute from bastok to Glacier and the person up for RDM is out of town (working i believe). RL close friend (also in LS) logged him in for the possible drop. And it dropped. Guy may have missed 3-4 runs in 6+ months (yes hes been in shell longer than that, thats just the attendance list in front of me atm). Also person that was not there doesnt get a point for the run, no.

[Guitarman]

It's generally a person by person basis. Let's face it; shit happens. Rule #1 for our LS is RL > game. If a person always shows up, always gives 100%, has their meds is on time or what have you all the time; and has an emergency and has to be dual boxed, yeah we'll let it go and give them item/point whatever. But if its someone thats always late, never puts in the effort to help others and never wants to be around unless they get somethin out of it, we'll be less inclined to give things to them when theyre being dual boxed all the time.

[Aksannyi]

^ was the case basically. A dynamis zone was changed kinda last minute from bastok to Glacier and the person up for RDM is out of town (working i believe). RL close friend (also in LS) logged him in for the possible drop. And it dropped. Guy may have missed 3-4 runs in 6+ months (yes hes been in shell longer than that, thats just the attendance list in front of me atm). Also person that was not there doesnt get a point for the run, no.

This is one example of what I've seen lately.

Another example: In another shell, it turns out that someone has been playing someone else's character for months and not letting on that he wasn't who he said he was, and getting drops and everything. This recently came out, and I don't know what the outcome was, because I'm not in that shell.

Another LS on the server that my friend is a member of apparently now has a rule that if you're caught dual boxing someone else so they can get points/items it's grounds for immediate kicking for both parties. Apparently they were having problems with people using whoever's account suited them so they could all loot whore it up, so measures were taken to prevent that.

Mostly I was wondering what other linkshells believe is the norm in terms of people using other accounts to get crap.

[Aelyssa]

Hiding shit is never good in any situation. No two ways to look at that really. If you have to hide that youre doing something, theres a 99.9% chance that its shady business. Anyone caught hiding anything (DB'ing someone thats normally there, pretending to be someone else, etc) needs a swift kick in the ass and a nice /breaklinkshell to follow.

[Suterusu]

My linkshell it's common at most events there is alteast 2-3 2box char there. Sometimes people will be playing 3-4 chars, having a couple at cerb, a couple at at the ls event going on etc. We never count 2box as anything, it's just another body. We also don't count it if someone is camping let's say, Tiamat on a mule, while XPing there main if there are other actual people camping on their mains.

[Issac]

~Do you give dual boxed people points?
No.
~Do you treat them as though they're there?
No.
~What about players who share accounts, not playing their own account but their friend's so friend can get an item if it drops?
If they deserved it.
~What if someone is dual boxed and they're up for a drop? Do they get it?
Same as above.
~If John takes a few months break but Jim plays his character, who gets the points?
Jim.
~What are the consequences if someone has been "RPing" as the person who owns the account, but isn't the original player and is discovered?
Warning, point deduction from both parties, possible expulsion, etc.

This is all imo. I don't have a hnmls these days.

[Mizango]

Meh, it doesn't bother me at all. Just as long as they are paying attention and not being fucking retarded, which would result in needless death or confusion etc... Truth be told I have been in LS's and in parties where the person dual boxing has more skill and is all around more attentive than (for instance) a person that's kiting and talking or chatting in /tells. I remember tanking in Sea and having the other PLD not paying attention because he wanted to watch the season finale of "Scrubs". >.>


I guess this is a classic "to each his own" situation and can pretty much go either way I suppose; to which I have no issue. The only issue I could foresee is if said person being boxed is ducking events for stupid reasons and is being covered by a friend. I've had instances where I have been late getting home from work and had someone zone me into Dynamis, Limbus etc.. so from that aspect I can understand.

[Calina]

I used to dual and triple box for ls events when we where shorthanded dyna kings limbus sea and sky pretty much anything I was needed to do. Always got seprit points for each character cuase I was doin 2-3 times the work anyone eles was.Its not fair to the dual boxer whos just trying to help events go smoother to only get points for 1 character.Playing on 2-3 characters at once isent really fun gatta really pay attention ive played as blm thf and rdm during dyna befor and nuking sleeping and pulling isent fun its just 1 big headache but we needed it so I did it.

As for how I used the points on the other characters I pretty much was aload to bid for whatever i wanted on them I used all 3 characters I had at the time pretty much evenly I dident keep a main if i wasent needed on 2 or 3 at once i went as witchever character had the job I was needed on unless there was an item i realy wanted with anouther and id make arengments with leader to either bring it the character i wanted to lot with there or come on it and someone eles go the job I would have on alt character.

No one really complained about it pretty much everyone understood i was just doing it to help the ls.A few ppl who just joined the ls from time to time complained but everyone would just ignor them.

When you think what to do remeber playing like that takes the fun out of the game for most of us and the person.

Although if the person is just doing it to get extra points when you have alot of ppl there alrdy and dont need the extra characters i say fuck the greedy bastard.

[amentis]

*My* personal approach to this is thus:
There are two situations where there would be a dual box (in my world).
1: Let's say I'm dualboxing a cor for my blm party. Just using a friend's character to give Wiz/Evoker's roll, randomly do some QDs, but all in all just kinda be there.
~In this case, I'd only give this character a drop if, say, no one else wanted it.
2: Very very big event, and someone who VERY CLEARLY deserves a drop more than anyone else in the LS can't show up. I'm talking to the point like, this person has more attendance than anyone else in the entire LS, and they've been waiting over a year for an item.
~In this case, I'd let another person play the account, and let the person get that drop. They've done the fight tons before, they've been incredibly loyal to the LS, and simply bad RL stuff shouldn't screw them over. I'm not sure how many people agree with me as far as this goes, but if you've got, say, a paladin who's gone to every limbus for the past 2 years, and the hands simply REFUSE to drop (and there are no other paladins remotely close to his attend), then I say let someone log them in and take 'em for him.

That's just how I would run it.

[Izzy]

For Dynamis, we don't let you lot if you're not there. Period. No one is allowed to play your account just to lot.

In my HNMLS, we used to have a running list of the order that everyone will get their items in. We would adjust the list based on attendance and effort. So, if something dropped and you were next on the list...someone would log on your account and lot it for you if they could. We didn't want someone to miss out on something just because their parents decided to go out to eat that night or something.

[Mizango]

For Dynamis, we don't let you lot if you're not there. Period. No one is allowed to play your account just to lot.

^ Oh yeah and this. The lotting and not "being there" really chaps my ass as well, I lost Pld hands to this once. Bah, I completely forgot about that.

[anathema]

my low man shell relies on 2/3-boxed characters as we don't have enough to kill stuff without them, so we reward people who are good enough and make the extra effort to 2/3-box. this is a different situation, though, so my 2 cents is pretty pointless :\

4 human, 10 character-omega is fun