Feelings on Salvage ls Funding upgrade costs

[KSDI]

I am working with friends towards putting a salvage ls together and one place we've hit a snag in is that some of the people who are applying to the shell all want to upgrade body pieces but most have expressed to us that they don't have the means gil-wise to do so.

How do other ls's deal with this? do most salvage shells fund their members upgrades? maybe doing isnm's or something else? or do you give lotting priority to members that can afford to upgrade over members who can't, given that their attendance and effort are about equal? I'm not sure how to handle this and advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Amele]

it's difficult at best to linkshell fund upgrades in a 'salvage-only' shell, because salvage doesn't have residual cash drops.

I'm blessed with the good fortune that everyone who joins my shell realizes that they're on the hook for upgrade costs and only ask for pieces they can actually afford (which means some people ask for three bodies and some, while wanting more than one, only ask for one etc.)

several of my shell members have formed xnm statics to raise funds for their upgrades but it's not something I would spend shell time on; salvage is slow enough going even when you spend all the time in the instance.

as for lotting priority: if someone was really going to work to upgrade it I'd give it to them, but I have tended to favor the person who could upgrade tomorrow vs. the person who won't for three months. etc. this is easier to handle in /point than in a dkp system.

in dkp I think you have to give the drops to the person the points say the drops go to.

[Zubuis]

Way my ls works is, if you get cloud evokers it can qualify you to get gil funding for a salvage body. From the cloud evokers, we do Bahamut 2 and help fund salvage bodies with cashmere cloths. It works well because it gives people a hope of getting salvage bodies as well as brings in more bahamut masks/staffs for the linkshell.

This is harder of course to pull off with a "Salvage only linkshell" depending I guess how many ppl you actually have.

In the event where you cant really fund the cost of the body, it can be good idea to give priority to members who can afford it. It is kinda a delicate issue though because the person who deserves it most might not be able to afford it. I'm not really sure there is a best way to handle this scenerio. Depends I guess how the members of your salvage group are. Its a bit easier scenerio to deal with (I think) if everyone is contributing hard, and their all team members. The further it gets away from being a perfect scenerio the harder it will be to make decisions on who is deserving vs who can afford it.

[Amele]

Way my ls works is, if you get cloud evokers it can qualify you to get gil funding for a salvage body. From the cloud evokers, we do Bahamut 2 and help fund salvage bodies with cashmere cloths. It works well because it gives people a hope of getting salvage bodies as well as brings in more bahamut masks/staffs for the linkshell.

This is harder of course to pull off with a "Salvage only linkshell" depending I guess how many ppl you actually have.

yeah, an ls that runs a profit in another event (baha/sky/dynamis/hnm etc) can afford to fund bodies with the profits from the other event pretty easily, in the grand scheme of things bodies aren't really that expensive.

setting up one of those events expressly to fund salvage seems counter productive to me, however.

[fndragon]

How do other ls's deal with this? do most salvage shells fund their members upgrades? maybe doing isnm's or something else? or do you give lotting priority to members that can afford to upgrade over members who can't, given that their attendance and effort are about equal? I'm not sure how to handle this and advice would be greatly appreciated.

As the owner of a self-funded Ares body, I can just say that if people get the drops, they will be motivated to find the time to make the money to finish it. I know several people who are selling off everything they own, doing ISNM's as often as possible, and various other things in order to afford the upgrade materials.

The only real big hit is the Body piece, as the other pieces' synth materials are vastly smaller, so what you're asking is whether or not to give lotting rights to members who will never be able to upgrade due to monetary reasons; You've got to make the hard decision, and the only real right answer is to talk it over with the members in question and ask them what they truly want. If they can see the problem and come to understand that them getting the drop would not result in a gear upgrade, then the members will agree to put someone else who can afford the upgrade ahead of them in the drop order for the body piece.

If you have someone who will lie about their financial affairs and wants handouts from the Salvage group as a whole in order to upgrade their piece, then you've got to question their value to the group as a whole. If they're the only BRD/MNK/RDM your group has, then it might be worth thinking about whether funding that piece as a group is worth the price of looking for another BRD/MNK/RDM. It's cold and callous, but it's the truth when you're talking about a 9-10 million gil upgrade in the current economy. Especially if people are flighty after they get whatever drop they were looking for.

In general, however, I've seen more of the first type of players; People will understand that making the gil is their own responsibility, and tend to focus when the prize is as tangible as holding 15,25,35 pieces for a body piece.

[Scorp]

We let people request 1 body regardless of means. We discourage people from free lotting or requesting others if that isn't upgraded. (i.e. you can sit on a main requested one but if you haven't upgraded it we may prevent you from requesting another or taking one off members who would upgrade).

The way I see it if you really want a body you'll work for it. If you are struggling then it makes more sense for someone else to benefit. Most bodies (except usu) are free lot now anyway so its not really an issue.

Salvage is one of those events where it is best to have a strong group bond and common sense between members. In a pick up environment it probably needs something more formal.

[Amele]

I've never had trouble getting another mnk/rdm/brd (maybe not all on the same guy) at least, not as much trouble as dealing with the fallout of handing someone 8million gil would do in a 'salvage only' ls.

make a successful shell and on most servers you will have people lining up to do this content.

[KSDI]

Excellent, thank you all for the responses.

[Hanyoko]

Salvage has become my favorite activity, sure often you get no drops; but at least you could tailor your efforts towards particular drops which are desired. I'm not sure what Square was thinking with Alexandrites but as it is right now (may change next update) those do not provide much income to mitigate the cost of a body upgrade. The hands, legs, feet all seem to have stabalized at a somewhat reasonable price for what you get, the orichalcum seems to fluctuate but remains at a fairly stable price however the Imp wootz is just insane.. I have not checked every server but the ones I have all saw a dip in cost around the time of the update then an inflation in price with nearly constantly sold out status.

I'm not saying that people should be handed fully upgraded bodies left and right, but for some people that only have 4-5 hours a night to play Salvage is a decent event with good rewards. That is why I feel salvage should have some method to restock the AH with the very items it removes. As such I have been submitting the following suggestion to SE somewhat frequently.

Imperial Wootz Ingot
--------------------
This item is becoming increasingly harder to obtain, its rarity in conjunction with high demand has made the cost to obtain it very difficult. Therefore I ask to look into this situation and keep in mind the following possible suggestions:

1) Since Imperial wootz ingots are needed for salvage, have something from salvage able to add stock to the Auction House
New item(s): Archaic Gizmo, Wootz nuggets, Khroma nuggets, Purified Wootz, Purified Khroma
Archaic Gizmo drops from: Chariots, Ramparts, Gear/Gears type mobs in Salvage
Archaic Gizmo is desynthable into some quantity based on synth result of Wootz nuggets and Khroma nuggets
Purified Wootz is synthed from some quantity of Wootz nuggets
Purified Khroma is synthed from some quantity of Khroma nuggets
(Reason for suggestion of the 'purified' is that following the normal nugget to replace ore formula would take the synth over 8 base items)
Additionally wootz/khroma nuggets could be grown in gardening
Modify Imperial Wootz Ingot synth formula as follows:
Fire Crystal + Iron Ore + Khroma Ore + Khroma Ore + Wootz Ore
Fire Crystal + Iron Ore + Khroma Ore + Khroma Ore + Purified Wootz
Fire Crystal + Iron Ore + Khroma Ore + Purified Khroma + Wootz Ore
Fire Crystal + Iron Ore + Khroma Ore + Purified Khroma + Purified Wootz
Fire Crystal + Iron Ore + Purified Khroma x2 + Wootz Ore
Fire Crystal + Iron Ore + Purified Khroma x2 + Purified Wootz

2) Implement the mining for Khroma ore in other areas to ease congestion in Mount Z. and to allow more to drop
Additionally implement other methods to obtain Wootz ore (possibly through mining) outside of dynamis; or increase drop rate of it in dynamis

3) Add new or adjust existing Imperial Standing battlefields to drop Imperial wootz ingots

4) Add Imperial Wootz Ingots as the reward for some kind of quest that requires Captain level; This will both drive more people to aquire captain as well as make it impossible for RMT to farm the quest for profit.

5) Have the Smithing NPC in Al Zahbi able to sell Imperial Wootz Ingots very rarely (1 every game month) at a reasonable price which will act as a 'suggested Auction House price'

Thank you for your time

Pipe dream I know, but clearly the event is way more popular/successful then they had thought when they designed the requirements for the 'rewards'

[Amele]

if it makes you feel better, the recently added imp. ingots and khroma ore to the drop tables in einherjar

[cdgreg]

I don't give "priority" to those who have the gil for upgrades, however I do speak privately to those who can not afford the upgrade. My personal feeling is a person with no means to upgrade, nor the time/effort level to make 9m gil should not be lotting a Macha's over someone who has the 9m and is ready to go. If they have 6m+ fine, or 3m + 5m in gear to be sold fine, but someone who can barely scrounge up limbus money by selling coins to LS members for the entry fee is no way getting ahead of someone sitting on 12 ignots. If I speak with a member and they tell me privately they can not afford Morrigan's body but they still want it, I tell them they *shouldn't lot* anytime soon. If they still chose to I'd most likely kick them or not help them get the 15/25, it's just a waste of everyones time. Call it harsh, but I'd rather see a piece be completed than rot away in someones MH until they quit because they "deserved it."

edit: this of course doesn't mean I'd give it to someone on their first 10 runs before someone that's been on 150. I guess this also falls into the category of "shit is situational."

[Hanyoko]

if it makes you feel better, the recently added imp. ingots and khroma ore to the drop tables in einherjar

I've seen this have very little effect on Imp. Wootz ingots. It has however made orichalcum ingots a tad more avaliable (since those seem to drop from Einherjar WAY more frequently)

[mdkuser]

we all farmed our own money for our bodies (6 so far). None of us has amazing crafting skill or anything, we just farmed. One of our member got her 12 ores in about 3 month of regular farming. Another got them in 4 months of mining in gusgen etc. It's not that hard to get the money for them, just takes time, but so does the 35s to drop.. so farm early.

[Kaylia]

Give them 200k, and a HQ LS Field Set.

I'm not good at making money, but shit, I would never beg for stuff like this. Just go mine, do ENM or w/e...it takes 1-2months to get 10m without spending absurd amount of time farming every day.

[Ahlah]

Farming for 1 salvage body upgrade is probably doable. I picked up random lv35 body pieces from doing salvage for a year and none of them were my main/sub lot, got them mostly because I was the only one in the party who can use them. Spent all gil andsold everything I can to upgrade morrigan set. As for now those lv35s are probably going to stay in mog house storage until I quit the game and delete the account.

[meson]

With the change to alexandrites and Mythic weapons coming, hording them to help fund upgrades of your group may become viable.

[cdgreg]

With the change to alexandrites and Mythic weapons coming, hording them to help fund upgrades of your group may become viable.

I say just let them auto distribute and people can do with them as they please. If people can't afford body upgrades it's not the LS leaders fault, they have enough on their plate leading salvage. People can fund their own!

[rithridan]

I think out of the 15ish people in my salvage group only 3 or 4 are able to upgrade a body in a reasonable timeframe. Unless you are someone whose already found his niche in the market and doesnt get overwhelmed by others trying to cash in on the same market you won't find it easy to upgrade a body in the current economy. I did ask everyone if they are able to gather imp. wootz ingots and half the time the answer I get is "when I get the equip pieces I'll farm like crazy". Easier said then done, when you got a fulltime job and limbus/sea/salvage events 5 out of 7 days in the week AND you don't have that niche in the market that nets you loads of gil I really doubt you can afford a salvage body in a decent amount of time.

I'm both glad and sad that I haven't had to make the decision yet on choosing between person with ingots and person without means of getting them. Unfortunately our droprate isn't very high, in 102 runs we've gotten 5 lv35 body pieces (2x ares, 2x morrigans, 1x marduks). So far we have 2 completed Morrigan bodies and for both of them I personally helped them manaburn two-faced flan countless of times for a shot at khroma ores. For us its basicly your responsibility to get the materials and you can usually count on your friends to help you out. I've had offers of people lending me gil for my upgrade (Marduks), but I rather not be in debts.

[Tomiko]

As the owner of a self-funded Ares body, I can just say that if people get the drops, they will be motivated to find the time to make the money to finish it. I know several people who are selling off everything they own, doing ISNM's as often as possible, and various other things in order to afford the upgrade materials.

we all farmed our own money for our bodies (6 so far). None of us has amazing crafting skill or anything, we just farmed. One of our member got her 12 ores in about 3 month of regular farming. Another got them in 4 months of mining in gusgen etc. It's not that hard to get the money for them, just takes time, but so does the 35s to drop.. so farm early.

These 2 responses cover my thoughts on the topic.

If someone plans on upgrading a body (or any piece) they should start collecting materials once they've decided instead of waiting til the last minute. It's alot easier to pay 8-9m over 3-4months time as opposed to 8-9m all at once. And the closer I got to completing mine, the more determined I was to have all the ingots for when I finished (which I did).

[pchan]

It's hard already to gather your salvage team and assault team during the week. So it's out of question to plan ISNM runs with the group, and tbh ISNM drop rate is not great and you need 24 drops for just 1 person. By the time you do your 6 ISNM runs (2H total gathering + 6 bcnms+ travel ?) you'll probably do equivalent money farming.

Also, my einherjar LS has won every single chamber since the last VU (we run 2x a week), including 3 wingIII, and not a single imp. wootz ingot ; the best we got was 1 orich ingot, and the AH is permanently out of ingot/ores just like before the update. Price dropped to 700K right after the VU, probably due to people anticipating more supply, but they are now back to 900-1M lol.