Shield DEF and damage reduction

[Zilong]

I've seen some discussion on how shield's defense value increases the percentage of damage reduction value from shield block (assuming same shield size), was there any truth to that? and if so, is there a specific calculation for it?

[fantasticdan]

I'm not sure if it's accurate, but I hear 2def = 1% additional damage reduction on block thrown around a lot.

[Tan]

I think thats on the Otherwiki so probably where people hear/see that, dunno the truth behind it personally though. But it kinda makes sense with Aegis being 40 Def and having the most damage reduction.

[siknoz]

I think this is about to turn into a riot shield discussion....

[Tan]

Riot shield will always be garbage unless you are using it for Salvage, or dicking around in Undead Besieged w/ Merrows, there is nothing that can justify 35.5% physical damage on blocks (if 2 def = 1% damage reduction) if you can't equip gear to boost the block rate, and gear in other slots that you normally would.

But something I would like to see explored is information on Shield Skill and shield types, i.e. are there Shield Skill tiers to obtain a desired block rate? What amount of shield skill + start to provide diminishing returns, and at what block % do these diminishing returns occur? And to go with this if you obtain a capped shield block rating (because you reach the highest tier or something) would moving up to something like a Tower Shield be a better choice for damage reduction / block rate activation? With my last question I'm not looking for Kite shield is better because of enmity, yada yada... but more along the lines is kite shield really the best for total damage reduction at say 300+ shield skill.

Those were just some question's I've always had and never really seen any data/info to back them up.

[Siralin]

I've always questioned this theory while hoping it was false. I use Wivre shield on PLD over Koenig for the enmity boost. However, there is a large DEF increase on Koenig.

I'm way too lazy to do any testing though. Plus, I don't own a Koenig shield, nor have I ever, to compare.

[Judai]

Pretty certain it does, i know shield blocks when i swap to Numinous Shield for fire kit are not as nice as when I have Koenig on. Pretty sure those are the same size.

[siknoz]

Tan, there are definitely "tiers" to shield blocking in relation to shield skill. I don't think anyone has figured out a specific formula yet though. However I will say that once you get above 300, and again when you get above 320, the block rate increases. I have noticed a MAJOR difference in our 2 Aegis plds when they tank Jailer of Prudence, one uses shield skill gear(~323 skill) while the other uses minimal shield skill gear(~300) and the one with more shield skill blocks a very noticeable difference more. And our whms always say the same thing when we fight prudence, "why does he block more, they both have aegis".

It would be nice if someone could actually figure out the tiers though and where (like you said) the diminishing returns are.

[Tan]

Oh I wouldn't be suprised that there are tiers as so many other things seemed to be tiered in this game, but yeah a formula or estimate that incorporates things like Shield Size, Shield Skill, Level Difference, and maybe AGI vs Dex or whatever checks are incorporated in Shield procs would be interesting to understand the mechanics.

I just was interested in a complex understanding of this because a week or so ago there was this giant thread (which I was involved in too) about "Yes shield merits are worth it", "No shield merits aren't worth it" back and forth and there was no real resolution and or hard data to back up either claim besides personal experience / preference.

As for 320 being the number I don't know, but the maximum amount of shield skill available for PLD seems to be 327, so I'm sure with some testing we can figure out if its worthwhile to use that much shield + or its better to be at a lower number.

Anyone up for the testing challenge?

[siknoz]

Testing isn't much of a problem, except the fact that I am not aware of a parser that can actually parse shield blocks. So, if that's the case you can only eyeball it and say "ya, that looks like more". If there is a way to parse shield blocks I would love to know, and I will run a few tests on Prudence this week.

[Neosutra]

The % damage down is a summation of two things:

1. Shield size (set amount of % down for each size)

2. Shield Def (Add (Def of shield)/2 to the "shield size" constant) to obtain your total % down on block.

While % down for each shield size is constant, the defense varies, and thus the total % reduction you will recieve will vary. Block rate is also a varying aspect between sizes, however max block rate caps at around 70% (give or take). The amount of shield skill needed to reach cap depends on the mobs lvl and isnt entirely linear from my observation, but I wouldnt call it "tiered".

As for the exact % constant each size adds, I am at work atm so I cant pull it up, but obviously it increases as the size increases, while max shield block % decreases slightly.

Aegis blocks like a size 3 (like a keonig shield), while giving the damage reduction bonus of a size 5. This works out to be about a 10% physical DoT reduction.