Kirin and other sky gods are black mages?

[Avarice]

Of course they're not, but apparently Charitwo (of FFXIclopedia, we all know him) seems to think otherwise reverting any actually helpful edits about the five gods.

So instead of getting into a bitchfight with him over this where I imagine he'll abuse his admin powers lets ask an easy question: what defines a mob as have multiple jobs. For example, he says Kirin is "Summoner, Black Mage" - two jobs. What qualifies a mob to be eligible to be listed for the job of which they don't even use the two-hour ability of?

[SamanosukeShiva]

i'm assuming it's like pankration set up, a lv50 SMN/BLM mob = SMN50/BLM50

[Mayareira]

Job defining abilities.

i.e.: Astral Flow/Summoning: Summoner. I persoanlly wouldn't call Kirin a Black Mage.

[Therin]

I don't think monsters really have jobs. Beastman, yes. Monsters, no. I mean, Khimaira triple attacks. Does that mean he's a THF (or sub THF)? I don't think so. Pretty pointless argument anyway, you'll never know whether Kirin is a SMN/BLM or BLM and SMN or even just neither one, and just happens to have Astral Flow. If two-hour MUST mean that they're that job, AV is every job, and DL is like seven jobs.

Pointless argument that we'll never know the solution of.

[Omniyoji]

First off I don't think it really matters what they are. As long as you know what they do/don't do you're fine.

Secondly I think Char probably does that cause of the higher tier BLM spells they're able to cast idk...

Lastly just for shit and giggles Maat is a MNK75/xxx75!!!! or you could say he's a xxx75/MNK1 w/ Asuran Fists lol... who knows... who cares?

We won't know til we ask SE...

[Max™]

Technically you could go and find the level of a mob, it's Agi, Vit, roughly determine it's Str, Dex, job traits, nuke it and work out it's Int, spells it casts, and 2hrs it uses, and roughly determine the jobs based on the stats/abilities a PC that level would have...

It might not matter for non-beastmen mobs at all though.

[Lordwafik]

1st - who cares if he's making the other wiki's facts wrong
2nd - if they are BLM mains, then BLM is the most powerful job in FFXI, because BLM have invincible, chainspell, hundred fists, perfect dodge, and astral flow.

[Avarice]

1st - who cares if he's making the other wiki's facts wrong
2nd - if they are BLM mains, then BLM is the most powerful job in FFXI, because BLM have invincible, chainspell, hundred fists, perfect dodge, and astral flow.

It's a stupid argument; I actually like the wiki to be correct so when I have to argue with an Admin that is incorrect it tends to be hard to fix it when he's defending wrong information.

[Suiram]

Monsters (non-beastmen) do actually have jobs. I remember Nagamaki (I think) posting about how it dictates growth of base attributes by level, using the example of Aura Statues. Of course with NMs they can and obviously do go in and screw around with their stats and sometimes give them extra traits and such as well.

[Greatguardian]

Charitwo's a fucking idiot.

Just because a job can cast high level spells does not make it /Blm, or part Blm, or anything of the sort. Tu'Lia gods are given certain Offensive spells as a way to make them more dangerous. Byakko casts Paralyga and Banishga, but I don't see him casting Cure V on himself like a WHM mob would. The other 3 lesser gods cast Offensive magic, again, but don't cast the usual "Spike" spells that are associated with the BLM job. Tu'Lia gods have one job. They are given a small set of Offensive spells to compliment their existing abilities. That does not qualify as "Half BLM".

Is Charitwo the same guy who defended Paralyze stopping Weapon Skills?

[LinktheDeme]

1st - who cares if he's making the other wiki's facts wrong
2nd - if they are BLM mains, then BLM is the most powerful job in FFXI, because BLM have invincible, chainspell, hundred fists, perfect dodge, and astral flow.

Absolute Virtue must be a BLM too!

[AneyuS]

Kirin uses Heat Breath, he must be a BLU!

[Wizerd]

Charitwo's a fucking idiot.

Just because a job can cast high level spells does not make it /Blm, or part Blm, or anything of the sort. Tu'Lia gods are given certain Offensive spells as a way to make them more dangerous. Byakko casts Paralyga and Banishga, but I don't see him casting Cure V on himself like a WHM mob would. The other 3 lesser gods cast Offensive magic, again, but don't cast the usual "Spike" spells that are associated with the BLM job. Tu'Lia gods have one job. They are given a small set of Offensive spells to compliment their existing abilities. That does not qualify as "Half BLM".

Is Charitwo the same guy who defended Paralyze stopping Weapon Skills?

Byakko uses Roar, doesn't cast Paralyga. <_<

Also, Seiryu casts Blink, doesn't that make him Monk, Black Mage, and Red Mage or White Mage?

[LD]

Monsters (non-beastmen) do actually have jobs. I remember Nagamaki (I think) posting about how it dictates growth of base attributes by level, using the example of Aura Statues. Of course with NMs they can and obviously do go in and screw around with their stats and sometimes give them extra traits and such as well.

This. It was either Nagamaki, VZX, or both (actually, I've been trying to find that topic, I forgot the stat rank formula). All mobs are job/job. Anything that breaks the mold is made specifically for the mob family or even the specific mob. Be surprised how few actually do that though, since mob subs aren't capped and therefore allow every JT and spell the sub has (and occasionally JAs).

[Eldelphia]

Also, Seiryu casts Blink, doesn't that make him Monk, Black Mage, and Red Mage or White Mage?

He casts Diaga - he's obviously a WHM with delusions of THF grandeur!

[lichtl]

He casts Diaga - he's obviously a WHM with delusions of THF grandeur!

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Diaga (WHM,RDM)

[Apelila]

You have your answer, Charitwo is a retard.

[ringthree]

Job defining abilities.

i.e.: Astral Flow/Summoning: Summoner. I persoanlly wouldn't call Kirin a Black Mage.

Basically, I think the better way to look at it is to say that mobs in general can have multiple jobs and after ToAU was released they can also have job traits without even having the job itself. Also spell-casting doesn't necessarily indicate the job of a mob either.

This is just speculation of course, but lets look at the Sky gods.

Genbu could be PLD/BLM reasonably. Or it could just be PLD with spell-casting abilities. You could probably even figure out if it was a BLM by doing tests nuking it and damage taken from its spells.

Suzaku could be RDM/BLM reasonably or it could be the same case with Genbu. Thinking back now, I can't remember if it double attacks or not, but my assumption is that it can double attack (in fact, I think all sky gods can double attack). Which means it could be RDM/WAR with spell-casting abilities, or it could be RDM/BLM with the double attack trait or it could be RDM/BLM/WAR.

Seiryu would be MNK/BLM, but this would be a little more tricky. It doesn't swing like a MNK, but then again MNKs can use two-handed weapons. But again I think it can DA, so MNK/BLM/WAR?

Byakko presumably is THF/WHM and I know that it can also DA so THF/WHM/WAR?

Kirin when it does melee, has an attack round that always includes both hands swinging. So maybe it is SMN/MNK/BLM? Or maybe it is just using hand-to-hand which is available to more jobs than just MNK.

In general mobs will have /WAR somewhere in their design make up. There are definitely some exceptions, but it is generally the case. Greater Colibri are one of the exceptions because I believe they were tested to be RDM/RDM (maybe it was BLU/BLU or BLU/RDM don't exactly remember). The point is that I don't think we should look at it in the same manner that we look at player jobs, because that can be quite misleading. It may be a good starting point for understanding the system but it doesn't have anywhere close to the same limitations that the player job system uses.

EDIT: In general on pre-ToAU (maybe even pre-CoP) NM's, my pretty unfounded assumption is that they have all of jobs for the abilities that they exhibit. If they have DA, then they have WAR some where in their make-up. If they cast Black Magic, then they have BLM somewhere, etc. If they don't use a certain spell, there is no reason to believe they just weren't given the spell, just like if a player never used a scroll to learn the spell. Somewhere between CoP and ToAU my rampant speculation is that they changed the mob design system and separated out all of the individual traits, spells and everything. There are still defaults, but for NM's it appears that anything can be added or subtracted irrelevant of the job of the mob.

[ringthree]

Charitwo's a fucking idiot.

Just because a job can cast high level spells does not make it /Blm, or part Blm, or anything of the sort. Tu'Lia gods are given certain Offensive spells as a way to make them more dangerous. Byakko casts Paralyga and Banishga, but I don't see him casting Cure V on himself like a WHM mob would. The other 3 lesser gods cast Offensive magic, again, but don't cast the usual "Spike" spells that are associated with the BLM job. Tu'Lia gods have one job. They are given a small set of Offensive spells to compliment their existing abilities. That does not qualify as "Half BLM".

Is Charitwo the same guy who defended Paralyze stopping Weapon Skills?

Dude, don't call other people idiots when you exhibit a complete lack of understanding of the mob system. I am not claiming that I completely understand it, but you understand it even less that Charitwo.

It is obvious that some mobs have their spell lists limited no matter their job. Whether the spells come from having that job as part of their make up or as part of the job system is just completely unknown. Since mobs have been proven to have "subjobs" (actually a second main job since they are equal in level) it would be incredibly hard to prove one way or another that casting or JT's come from the subjob or from the mob design programming.

[ringthree]

You have your answer, Charitwo is a retard.

A thief? Maybe. Evil? Maybe. Retarded? Not at all.

Olde FFXIwiki drama is olde.