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Thread: PW/AV E-Mail     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #1
    Old Merits
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    PW/AV E-Mail

    Posting this in the Interview Section since it is related to communication between Square Enix and the Community.

    So we all know about this :
    http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showt...=60265&page=19
    Page 19, mentioning all the forms of Pandemonium with an unreasonable time needed to fight.

    Armored Chariot
    Long-Bow Chariot
    Battleclad Chariot
    Long-Armed Chariot

    Troll Destroyers
    Mamool Ja Hussar
    Acroliths

    Galka General ( +25% Movement speed )
    Elvaan General
    Mithra General
    Hume BLM
    Hume RNG

    Gurfurlur the Menacing
    Medusa
    Gulool Ja Ja

    Vampyr + Bats
    Hydra + Dahak
    Khimaira + Puks
    Cerberus + Bombs
    Dvergr + Mini-Dvergrs

    Fight start time: 3:30pm EST, End time: 9:00am
    We also have somewhere an unconfirmed information from Sage Sundi saying that AV is designed to be a 2-digit-hour expected fight.

    - Most endgame Linkshells could probably kill all 3 Kings (some maybe only if they practise a bit on them) – problem here is claiming/getting involved in third Party programs and the competition in general. It is something the legal playing people would like to get changed, but still nothing is being done till today. So yeah.

    - With enough practise most Linkshells could kill Tiamat/Cerberus/Khimaira too.
    Almost every Linkshell would win those fights if they would be able to claim a few each month. Here though the problem is the motivation to camp for hours/days for a few people to hold/claim when it pops. (the good old mule camping only is over these days on most servers)
    If you want those these days all you actually have to do is camp and having luck that it pops in your time. Still not a perfect design but yeah.

    - Others not involved in camping/third party use like Ouryu, Bahamut, Kirin. Beatable by most Linkshells. Good design, good balance. This is what makes people happy. Except the 15 minute repop time of ???. Even better the Zeni NM System from Tier 1 to 4 is perfect. Low repop time. Different strategies involved. Open for everyone. (Unless some idiots think they have to proof with a popped NM that it is soloable in 1-2 hours)
    (I am not mentioning some stupid ways to pop some Sea Jailers/NMs here)

    - Now a look at AV/PW.
    AV is out since years now. Unhelpfull hints and an useless video were released too with the information that this is all we can get at the moment. According to SE a fight lasting over 12 hours with the strategy the DEV Team uses.

    PW. Recent attempt was almost 18 hours. Someday maybe less. But again…. Yeah.
    No Balance. 10+ hours expected to fight (we assume we can get PW down to 10 hours like all other NMs in the past (Tiamat from 4 hours to under an hour, other fights from 1 hour to 30 seconds Zerg ect).

    Question:
    How does the PLD tank in that fight get to go WC in a 10+ hour fight?
    How do the 2 WHMs RL moms bring their kids to bed or cook?
    Why does a NM result in people having to play FFXI for so many hours?

    Does Square Enix remember what we have to [Accept] before we get to our character select screen?

    What I would like to do is write an E-Mail to people from Square Enix that I know. Not in an Interview. But my try to bring something to their attention, especially since I will not be going to the Games Convention this year I think. And maybe getting a better answer on this 10hour+ stuff.

    Who wants to sum all this up and write a nice little E-Mail?
    Again no joke E-Mails, and no offense/attacks to any SE Employee. If you don´t want to post it here, PM me too.

    Bercus, why are you not making an E-Mail on your own?
    Because other people can write a lot better, can sum up things better and can write/speak better English then I do.

    Bercus
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  2. #2
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    When i talked to Ganiman he told me that while talking about AV to Sage Sundi and another SE Developer, that Sundi said the fight is about 18 hours, maybe 9-10 if you get lucky with the abilities he uses
    http://petfoodalpha.com/?p=794

    I also posted an article about this. I know SE does watch the site so if lots of people commented on the article im sure it would get noticed.
    http://petfoodalpha.com/?p=1055

    I'd also say to fill out that form in POL viewer wherever it is and let them know that this is indeed a big problem for players that needs to be resolved
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  3. #3
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    Hello xxxxxx,

    I have recently contacted xxxxxxxx about the GC (which is in less then 2 weeks) and still got no confirmation if the FFXI Team will be there or not. Can you give me an update?
    Also it would be nice if you can read through this article regarding Pandemonium Warden.
    http://petfoodalpha.com/?p=1055

    It would be nice if we (the whole FFXI Community) can get a responds regarding those 10+ hours fights versus Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden via E-Mail, Premiere Sites or www.playonline.com (it´s all in the article I posted a link to above)

    Thank you for your help and time,
    Bercus
    I just realised I wrote Bercus instead of my real name.
    Anyway now it´s time to wait.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bercus View Post
    Question:
    How does the PLD tank in that fight get to go WC in a 10+ hour fight?
    He doesn't, another PLD relieves him.
    How do the 2 WHMs RL moms bring their kids to bed or cook?
    Simply, by being relieved by the other two WHMs contacted to take over when the usual cooking/bed-bring time is.
    Why does a NM result in people having to play FFXI for so many hours?
    To further the community aspect of the game. Makes good use of the overhead of level 75 players and forces them to be unselfish to an extreme to defeat the hardest mobs in the game.

    I do not think, that AV or PW were meant to be fought with just the few people other mobs normally go down, too. I think, these mobs are more intended to be like the Twinkling Trees from Christmas, or the crystal shards pre-WoG, these events were meant to be won by community effort.
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  5. #5
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    Voila....

    Also thank you for the link.
    I can't guarantee when or how, but I hope we can present some kind of information regarding this issue.
    Now all we can do is wait
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  6. #6
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    Thanks for getting this out there Bercus. Even though I'm sure the response we will get will be similar to AV info, hopefully they will at least see that fights like this are just overly ridiculous...
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  7. #7
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    Thanks for doing this Bercus. I too sent in a message about this through comments & suggestions on PoL. This is not acceptable.
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  8. #8
    Yoshi P
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    Should maybe include in your email that people were actually getting sick from playing with that level of concentration for such a long period of time. Honestly, I think fear of a lawsuit could change SEs mind on these things.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by fantasticdan View Post
    Should maybe include in your email that people were actually getting sick from playing with that level of concentration for such a long period of time. Honestly, I think fear of a lawsuit could change SEs mind on these things.
    This was mentioned in the linked article. Wouldn't hurt to re-state it thought to get the point across
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  10. #10
    I ask Dumbass Questions and get Smartass Answers
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    sent a comment via PoL:

    The difficulty of final HNM battles is too extreme. Any encounter with the monsters Dark Rider, Absolute Virtue, etc. is considered foolish because of unreasonable health and abilities possessed by them. My group and others are losing interest in FFXI as Square Enix ignores this problem. The items held by these foes do not exist in the game, and most players believe they are jokes or have programming errors. Please fix this issue and make the items obtainable without cheating. Being forced to play uninterrupted for over 6 hours is very inconvenient and unhealthy for your customers, who provide your income. Allowing your clients to jeopardize their lives and relationships is unwise for any business model. Making such HNMs a win-able challenge will bring interest back to FFXI and restore the trust of FFXI players who have been discouraged from attempting difficult content.
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  11. #11
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    Interested is what their responce will be to it.

    I know a lot of people are against it, but really, screw it, this game has been out long enough, just turn all roz/cop/toau kings into pops. Yeah it'll mean more people with Ridills and such, but come on, no one wants to deal with that BS anymore. There comes a time in a games life where it just doesnt matter if the whole server has EBodies or not.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cog View Post
    Any encounter with the monsters Dark Rider
    huh
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  13. #13
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    Dear Square-Enix Inc.,

    How much does any human being work on a given day? US national average, Japanese National average, World average? Has that time ever reached a point to where one has to remain aware, and in extreme focus and concentration for time periods in excess of 10 hours without any break? Now that's work, and you expect your customers that they turn to your products for entertainment; in which the requirements to succeed at certain events exceed the expectations required by a paying job? It is not reasonable or ethical to expect this of your customers. And do to the particular mechanics involved with your game Final Fantasy XI, alternative solutions are too few and far between.

    Pandemonium Warden was attempted several times now and each attempt is revealing that the battle will exceed reasonable amounts of time to accomplish. Your other "World Class" mega-fight Absolute Virtue is about to celebrate its third birthday undefeated, and it was through a slip of the tongue that one of your representatives stated, the time required to defeat said monster is in excess of 10 hours. We as a gaming community are very accepting of challenges, but when taken to the scale that we need to sacrifice basic human needs like human contact, feeding, using the restroom, and sleeping for periods of excess, it's no longer challenging, it's downright demeaning and immoral.

    Nothing in this game should exceed four hours even at its most challenging point without some form of relief. A fight doesn’t need to rival sleep in order to be considered challenging (Absolute Virtue, Pandemonium Warden)... Nor does it need to be so painfully luck based that repetition in excess of hundreds of tries; to the point one memorizes the event, only to gain little or no reward (Slavage). Either way, no one likes having their time wasted, period; especially when it comes to one’s entertainment. At work, we get rewarded for doing menial, boring, repetitious, and/or stressful tasks. We expect better when we seek entertainment. We don’t find the 2 pieces of gear we got from Slavage after attending close to 150 events rewarding... We don’t like the thought that we can “Look forward to” a single event where we have to spend 10+ hours non-stop fighting one mob that at any second can wipe out the entire group with a single attack and ruin that 10+ hours of work...

    Exercise discretion when designing future events, and please fix current events to reside at the very most in the grey areas around “prudent”... We do understand that you deal with a massive amount of criticism, and we are not unthankful. We do thank you in your continuing efforts to make our entertainment well... entertaining... Please help us out a little bit on your less ethical constructs...
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  14. #14
    Yoshi P
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    Yeah, they're gonna throw your comment out now because you mentioned Dark Rider.

    He's not supposed to be fought. Like, really.
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  15. #15
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    When are you going to stop fucking about and make a real game for people who want to enjoy it as that? 10+ hour fights are not challenging, they are demeaning and laws should be passed to stop this, 1% drop rates are not challenging, they just make you repeat things so many times they are boring and you feel like you are losing brain cells every time you repeat the process, 72 hour windows are not challenging they are just a huge time sink. Good luck trying to keep people playing this game, it really will be the FINAL Fantasy for a lot of players for sure.

    That's what I sent.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starr View Post
    When are you going to stop fucking about and make a real game for people who want to enjoy it as that? 10+ hour fights are not challenging, they are demeaning and laws should be passed to stop this, 1% drop rates are not challenging, they just make you repeat things so many times they are boring and you feel like you are losing brain cells every time you repeat the process, 72 hour windows are not challenging they are just a huge time sink. Good luck trying to keep people playing this game, it really will be the FINAL Fantasy for a lot of players for sure.

    That's what I sent.
    Excellent!
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenzy View Post
    He doesn't, another PLD relieves him.

    Simply, by being relieved by the other two WHMs contacted to take over when the usual cooking/bed-bring time is.

    To further the community aspect of the game. Makes good use of the overhead of level 75 players and forces them to be unselfish to an extreme to defeat the hardest mobs in the game.

    I do not think, that AV or PW were meant to be fought with just the few people other mobs normally go down, too. I think, these mobs are more intended to be like the Twinkling Trees from Christmas, or the crystal shards pre-WoG, these events were meant to be won by community effort.
    whm could in theory be replaced however for tanks things are much more difficult since BTL said hate stays from form to form, and pld(or any job for that matter) lack a magical Job Ability to give their hate to their replacement tank, otherwise PW would go eat the mages, DD, and everyone else while the new tanks are rebuilidng hate, and saying to be won by community is laughable we're suppose to get huges groups(40~60 at least by what you say) of people to reward 3~10 people at most, for hours of effort?, retarded.
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  18. #18
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    Small issue but I don't think it would hurt to ask about the possibility looking back on old poppable NMs (e.g. Sky gods, Gration, et cetera) and reducing the ??? repop time to match those of the new ZNM system. Shouldn't be too difficult and would definitely be a welcome adjustment for those linkshells that go to Tu'Lia with pockets full of triggers hoping to get fights in without turning in for the day because people go /away between the awkwardly long waits for the ???.
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  19. #19
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    If anything, I would expect an answer along the lines of

    "We want all the players to work together in shifts, or "Teams" if you will to defeat such a powerful and exotic monster"

    Something stupid and idiotic like that.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by miokomioko View Post
    Small issue but I don't think it would hurt to ask about the possibility looking back on old poppable NMs (e.g. Sky gods, Gration, et cetera) and reducing the ??? repop time to match those of the new ZNM system. Shouldn't be too difficult and would definitely be a welcome adjustment for those linkshells that go to Tu'Lia with pockets full of triggers hoping to get fights in without turning in for the day because people go /away between the awkwardly long waits for the ???.
    http://bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58147
    Question 3 (Repop time of ??? –Questionmarks-)
    Is it possible to reduce the time it takes for the forced-pop “???” NMs to respawn from fifteen minutes to something like five minutes? Spawning eight NMs results in a total of two hours being wasted. This is not only time-consuming but also causes any group after us to wait.

    Question 3:
    What is the purpose behind the fifteen minute waiting period we currently experience?

    Answer:
    As a basic rule, should there constantly be congestion, some kind of adjustment is made (for example, this is applicable to NMs fought by the player in order to obtain the Samurai job). If there is a particular NM that this applies to, please let us know by giving us its name and what happens in detail. We can then examine the problem.
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