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Thread: ???-Repops     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #21
    Bitchfist
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    Then let the low manners pop and gtfo. Saving time either way.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indalecia View Post
    Then let the low manners pop and gtfo. Saving time either way.
    That's not answering my question nor the original, unless I just don't understand your reply at all.

  3. #23
    Nidhogg
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    So, no chance at getting it through their heads that "congestion" shouldn't be the driving force on whether to lower the repop time?

    The whole entire complete exhaustive all-encompassing point to asking for a lower repop time is because waiting for a repop is a waste of time. A completely unnecessary waste of time.

  4. #24
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    Mail has been sent today. Did not have time before.
    I assume the earliest changes will be made with the Version Update in December.
    I also thanked them for taking the feedback for PW/AV serious.

    I will probably work on a Q&A again in October after the next Version Update.

  5. #25
    the whitest knight u' know
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    Why pick and choose? Any ??? that you trade to pop a NM (that doesn't move around or only appear under certain conditions) has no reason to have a timer more than those of the ZNM system. Period.

  6. #26
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    Any ??? that you trade to pop a NM (that doesn't move around or only appear under certain conditions) has no reason to have a timer more than those of the ZNM system. Period.
    We know that, however those repops have been on those NMs for years.
    ZNMs is something new. Changing old ??? to 5 minutes or lower is not going to work with 3 clicks in their system.

    Since we don´t know how much work is involved into changing each ???, you will probably have to do it one-by-one though (all ??? have different requirements to repop/respawn), we only sent in the important ones. Because those should be considered first.
    If there is a particular NM that this applies to, please let us know by giving us its name and what happens in detail. We can then examine the problem.

  7. #27
    Salvage Bans
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    All of them.

    Repop should be 1-2 mins. Why is it 15? There is no reason for it.

  8. #28
    CoP Dynamis
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    Umm I didnt read all post so just forgive me if my quesiton was asked before, but shouldnt BBQ ring NM be on that list too ?

  9. #29
    Nidhogg
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    Quote Originally Posted by SE
    Answer:
    As a basic rule, should there constantly be congestion...
    What needs to be the focal point here is that congestion is not the reason they should change these. There is no case regardless of congestion where shortening the repop time of these results in anything other than a win-win situation for all involved. Players get to waste less time for no reason, SE gets happier players.

  10. #30
    the whitest knight u' know
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    Quote Originally Posted by bercus View Post
    Since we don´t know how much work is involved into changing each ???, you will probably have to do it one-by-one though (all ??? have different requirements to repop/respawn), we only sent in the important ones. Because those should be considered first.
    No, they don't all have different requirements to respawn. I'm talking about every single NM popping ??? that takes a straight-up fifteen minutes to reappear and is 100% always up otherwise. Those, and probably only those, need to be reduced to ~2 minutes. This is the only real problem area. This covers Sky and Sea and also helps out all the lower linkshells that make an event out of shit like Gration and Bomb Queen. If a NM's ??? only appears under certain conditions (weather, moon, day of the week, moves around etc.) then it probably doesn't need to be touched as such ???s are rarely raided on and don't ever have 5+ people waiting to pop it.

    Ask for a blanket, not nit-picks. I'm thinking SE digging around for only specific ???s that were mentioned might be more work than creating a blanket adjustment for all ???s that don't have weird conditions involved.

  11. #31
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    You don´t have to explain me that changing all ??? would be the best.
    If they only want to change specific ??? and ask for which, then we will send them the specific ??? from NMs. (Which has already been sent to the Development Team by now btw. so all we can do once again is wait probably till one of the next Version Updates)

    And yes all ??? have to be adjusted one-by-one I am pretty sure. It is not done by simply changing "somewhere" the "15" into a "2" or "5". If it would be that easy SE would have probably done it already.

    As for different requirements, every ??? needs it NM to despawn or be killed before the ??? is able to repop. Then the Swift Belt NMs/Jailer of Faith have also additional requirements where they repop (random). Then we have also Jailer of Fortitude. I just worded it wrong what I actually meant.

  12. #32

    If it's an NM with pop-item spawn, I don't see why they can't be instant repop. I mean, you still require the pop item anyway, so why force us to wait?

    Imagine if there's a cool down 15 minute period with the various BCNMs... >.>

  13. #33
    Relic Horn
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    I'm hoping they surprise us and throw this in on Monday. I do Sky around midnight three nights a week so the extra wait is a complete kick to the nuts.

  14. #34

    Quote Originally Posted by bercus View Post
    You don´t have to explain me that changing all ??? would be the best.
    If they only want to change specific ??? and ask for which, then we will send them the specific ??? from NMs. (Which has already been sent to the Development Team by now btw. so all we can do once again is wait probably till one of the next Version Updates)

    And yes all ??? have to be adjusted one-by-one I am pretty sure. It is not done by simply changing "somewhere" the "15" into a "2" or "5". If it would be that easy SE would have probably done it already.
    From a programming standpoint, changing "somewhere" from a "15" to a "2" or "5" (for example) to affect multiple files is standard practice. If every single ??? has a time coded individually, then that's just very poor foresight on the part of their programmers.

  15. #35
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    They should adjust ??? repops to be proportional to the actual downtime needed between fights. I see ??? timers as a way to make sure everyone who dies gets R3s and no dummy pops a monster before your mages have MP back from the last one.

    On fights there aren't commonly deaths on, repops should be around 2 minutes, which is about the time it takes any mage with a solid MPwH build to rest their full MP bar. This could be everything in sea and the outside of sky, with the exception of AV.
    Your average alliance of players raises a few dead, unweakens, and heals to full in a little over 5 minutes, so 5 minutes is good on fights that there are frequently a few deaths on. In my mind, this would be Kirin and maybe tier 4 ZNMs.
    On fights where alliances regularly wipe repeatedly, the ??? repop time should be set to 15 minutes. This way everyone gets at least one R3 to compliment their R1s. I'm thinking this is pretty much limited to PW and AV at the moment. This longer repop timer should apply only if they're actually killed.


    Another way to do it (which I prefer) --
    If they felt like making it scale to alliance skill and generalize it to all pop NMs, they could just the formula:

    2 + number of deaths to the popped monster = number of minutes before ??? respawn.

    So the minimum respawn time would be 2 minutes, if you had a few deaths it might take 5-6 minutes for it to come back up, and if you full wiped it would take 20 minutes. I favor this way, because less experienced LSs don't pop before they're ready, everyone who dies gets R3 (and angry glares), and generally the repop timers will drop for experienced LSs. It also penalizes zombie-ing things and encourages less sacrificial strategies.

  16. #36
    the whitest knight u' know
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    I see ??? timers as a way to make sure everyone who dies gets R3s and no dummy pops a monster before your mages have MP back from the last one.
    They aren't forcing us to wait 15 minutes to make sure we don't get ourselves killed. What the hell is that? There's literally no purpose to a 15 minute repop on a ??? other than to time sink. NMs that take a group of people to kill should never ever have a repop of more than a few minutes because, chances are, when a group of 6 or more players makes the effort to travel out to some remote location to pop some NM, there's probably going to be more than one person with a trigger. Solo-able crap isn't wasting more than one person's 15 minutes so it's not as important... but forcing 6, 12, 18 people to wait around for a stupid ??? to reappear when they all have a trigger waiting for it... is utterly pointless.

    If some retard pops something before their mages heal MP back, that's their loss. Definitely not SE's job to hold your hand to make sure you don't die.

  17. #37
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    Then why the hell did they ever have repop timers? I know it's worthless and annoying, but I'm trying to guess why they ever added them to the game. That is the only reasonable function they serve right now.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Then why the hell did they ever have repop timers? I know it's worthless and annoying, but I'm trying to guess why they ever added them to the game. That is the only reasonable function they serve right now.
    Probably to prevent people getting 10-15 triggers, group of people and burning your way through them getting tons of items, and sellables.

    I can understand the point on small easy mobs that only take 3-5 minutes to kill. But something that takes good 30-40 minutes to kill, then adding another 15 minutes wait, plus there is even more wait time after that because usually people go afk, then come back 20-25 minutes later. If they are the tank, you have no choice but to wait.

    I find it stupid alot of the time.

  19. #39
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    Most likely the 15 min is a throwback from old code. IE the coding for the ??? was based upon an indoor monster which had well... a 15 min repop. Each ??? is probabaly unique and thus they would have to change each and every one manually. (Yay for not using modern object inheritance and polymorphism)
    Oh and during the process of changing the timers for the ??? your 2hrs will now take 3hrs to recharge if you use the ability on an even second.

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