Crafting for your Linkshell

[Guitarman]

@Guitarman You know jack shit, how is it selfish when the leader do the same that they expect from the member? Thats bullshit. Any member is in my opinion to help the LS as good as he can, and if he has a craft to help the LS, he better do so.
Fuck, i dont want to be in your guys Linkshells if such a behavious isnt standard. I never even thought about this topic before it came up here. It was the most normal thing in the world for me to help the LS. Neither did anyone in my LS ever think about that. People argue about who gets to craft stuff because they like to see rare HQ's signed by them.

Actually, your the one that doesnt know shit. The craft was done for THEMSELVES. Do you comprehend that? Let me say it again, so you understand THEY SPENT TIME EFFORT GIL for themselves. In fact, you're the one being selfish by saying "you must synth for me, so if you HQ, i get more money!". Nice way to ride on other's hard work, seriously, your greed is phenominal. You must be really fun to follow. you wanna synth for your members? Great! Members want to do it for you, its thier perogative. There should be no arm twisting to use a craft like that. Seems like pretty piss poor leadership to me.

if he has a craft to help the LS, he better do so

Just reiterating, no crafter owes you a damn thing. They went and camped/fought with you put in just as much work as you. You aren't owed a damn thing.

I craft for my lsmates because theyre my friends. Not one of them ever twist my arm to get an item from me. I synth for them because i want to. Your retarded "do as i say youd better!", basically lording your leadership over them and threatening to kick them is really really low. Wanna guess what ive been doing the past week? Manta fishing to craft skins into a HQ heca legs for my ls lead. He isnt forcing me to, he never has, which is why i go down there and help. I respect him because he never forces bullcrap like that on me. Once i hq, guess what? No charge!

[Jaregue]

in no way do i feel obligated to synth for anyone, i leveled the craft for my benefit, and a ls is not going to use my craft to its benefit. now i will synth for ls members if they ask, and mostly for free they can tip if they want. but when the ls starts to make me synth for them ect. i'd drop the pearl.

[Niki]

Wow if I was to apply to an LS with those shitty crafting rules, I wouldn't even put the fact I have crafts on my app.

I'm guessing when your thieves use Steal in Dynamis, you force them to hand the coins over too.

We dont have any crafting rules, its not needed. In 4 years nobody ever thought about getting tipped for helping the LS. It is a thing that goes without saying because people are happy to return something to the LS. Sorry if people are too greedy in your LS, i would call a rule, that the LS bank has to pay a Member for HQing a LS item, a shitty crafting rule. But thats just my opinion.
Keep in mind im talking about Cerb mantles, Hermes' sandals and occasionally a Shining cloth only. And they get synthed when we got mats for 5-10.
Crafting for LS member is a different topic and everyone can handle that how he likes.

Actually, your the one that doesnt know shit. The craft was done for THEMSELVES. Do you comprehend that? Let me say it again, so you understand THEY SPENT TIME EFFORT GIL for themselves. In fact, you're the one being selfish by saying "you must synth for me, so if you HQ, i get more money!". Nice way to ride on other's hard work, seriously, your greed is phenominal. You must be really fun to follow. you wanna synth for your members? Great! Members want to do it for you, its thier perogative. There should be no arm twisting to use a craft like that. Seems like pretty piss poor leadership to me.

Again, nobody ever got forced to craft anything neither did we ever talk about that topic. Nobody ever crafted something because he is scared. Stop making foolish assumptions.
And the correct wording would be: "If you expect your 1 million gil from the LS per week, you should help as good as you can." If you dont want to help the LS, why should the LS spend any time to camp shit for you? Assume you are a "newer" member (we are 4 years old), some people were fully equiped with king gear. Why should they spend hours camping to help you get stuff? You didnt do shit for them? Thats why i say a good leaded linkshell has members that are happy to take, but also happy to give if they can. You can call it piss poor leadership, but i'm glad we dont have any member that thinks about crafting like you. That is piss poor in my opinion.
Keep in your mind the LS didnt force them level any craft, they dont lose any money crafting for the LS and they dont risk any items. They spend 10 minutes of their time for the LS, that is all.

But meh, different kind of Linkshells, different kind of player. Glad everyone can go look for a LS with a thinking that fits his.

[Izzy]

We dont have any crafting rules, its not needed. In 4 years nobody ever thought about getting tipped for helping the LS. It is a thing that goes without saying because people are happy to return something to the LS.

This is basically what I always thought. I've always crafted for my LS for free, and so has everyone else. We've never asked for anything in return.

In the end I guess shit is situational. If you want tipped for your LS synths, tell them up front. If your LS doesn't agree, don't synth for them.

[Lordwafik]

We dont have any crafting rules, its not needed. In 4 years nobody ever thought about getting tipped for helping the LS. It is a thing that goes without saying because people are happy to return something to the LS. Sorry if people are too greedy in your LS, i would call a rule, that the LS bank has to pay a Member for HQing a LS item, a shitty crafting rule. But thats just my opinion.

Wow he actually tried to pull the my LS is greedy card when he's the one forcing his people to craft or see a crushed pearl. Riiiiiiiight

My LS has many crafters, majority of them synth for free, but so long as I didn't pay for their crafting, I am not going to tell them what they can and cannot do with their craft. Majority of LS members also tip each other when the other one crafts for them, as a sign of appreciation instead of taking it for granted.
Also we have no LS bank so nobody's going to get any special LS funding for their synths

[Ruiner]

If you dont want to help the LS, why should the LS spend any time to camp shit for you? Assume you are a "newer" member (we are 4 years old), some people were fully equiped with king gear. Why should they spend hours camping to help you get stuff? You didnt do shit for them?

Because they get points. When they craft for their LS, they get nothing.

[Guitarman]

Our ls is like wafik's, except most times tips are outright refused because, hey, its all gonna come around in the end. Me synthing x item for my ls mate is no skin off my back, i know they're gonna be there to help me out if i need an item or something crafted. No tyrannical "synth or i break your pearl" idiocy. Mutual respect goes a long way.

[wop]

Getting a craft to 100 takes months and fucktons of gil. Huge descrepancy there.

Sorry for derail, but this is such a bad misconception.

If you lose a fucktons of gils leveling to 100, you're doing it WRONG.

Between me and my sis, we have 4 x100 and Gold 88 going up and we've never lost gils in taking to 100. Craft smart, not craft hard.

Another point is, you need to be cruel to be rich.

I used to do stuff like buying up all platinum leafs and NPC them, to block other alchemist from skilling up (when AH price = or < NPC price)

I still buy Rainbow capes at 10k, and NPC them for 11k or just desynth. A LOT of people are dumb and do not know that many items, NPC > AH price.
I guess, we need dumb people for us to get rich. Go figure.


And back on to topic, I agree with Niki completely. I just recently made Cursed Dalm-1 for one of my LS officer. Newsflash! FREE synth! Although any tips are welcome, but hell I won't sell it as items like these, I would like to remain in LS.

[Chen]

if you not willing to craft for your ls, don't put it in your application, otherwise it's as useless info as the 75 BRD/RDM/WHM who won haut in the lotto.

you use your 100 craft to boost your chances of getting accepted, then once you do you say lolno you gotta pay me bitch haha...

[barber2006]

A big difference is that 99.99% of the playerbase doesn't have a linkshell situation like wop or Phoenix. If your linkshell is helping you get 3 relics or flat out buying you currency for a relic for a job that is level 20, of course it's not wise to gripe about a 10-20k tip here or there. People in linkshells who distribute 30M to their players a week from the ls bank would be slap crazy to charge for a synth. I'm not saying this specifically about anyone posting in this thread since I'm not into judging people I don't know, but I think it goes without saying that if someone is handed 1M a week on average just for doing ls events their intentions when they 'craft for free' might not be as altruistic as we imagine. They are milking a cash cow just like people who charge for crafting.

For other players who don't enjoy a linkshell that has a 24 hour presence online and players maxed out on gear so they can sell drops, gil is hard to come by. They do not have the same incentive to do things for free since they are doing events for 'free' rather than getting paid for them.

It's also important to note that not everyone has been in the same linkshell for 4 years. My first week in a linkshell last year I made a cursed kabuto -1 and a thesso +1 and didn't see a dime for it. I worked my way up from 8th on the haidate list to 1st and 7th on the novio list to 2nd and then the shell broke after leaders had full homam/torques/etc. There was no 'give and take' in that situation and that is the situation that many, if not most, players find themselves in. Crafting big ticket hqs for free in an environment like that is just setting yourself up for a fall.

[Niki]

Because they get points. When they craft for their LS, they get nothing.

We don't use a point system.

Wow he actually tried to pull the my LS is greedy card when he's the one forcing his people to craft or see a crushed pearl. Riiiiiiiight

My LS has many crafters, majority of them synth for free, but so long as I didn't pay for their crafting, I am not going to tell them what they can and cannot do with their craft. Majority of LS members also tip each other when the other one crafts for them, as a sign of appreciation instead of taking it for granted.
Also we have no LS bank so nobody's going to get any special LS funding for their synths

What part of "nobody was ever forced to craft anything" or "We never even discussed this in the LS at all" you dont understand?
People take it for granted that the LS helps them, the LS takes it for granted that the people do their best to help the LS. If you see anything wrong with that be that way, i clearly dont.
It's cool, if you are happy with member expecting to get paid to help the LS, leave it that way. I couldn't and i wont. You dont want to be in a LS like that thinks like me, and we dont want any member that thinks like you. Its all fine

[Toksyuryel]

A big difference is that 99.99% of the playerbase doesn't have a linkshell situation like wop or Phoenix. If your linkshell is helping you get 3 relics or flat out buying you currency for a relic for a job that is level 20, of course it's not wise to gripe about a 10-20k tip here or there. People in linkshells who distribute 30M to their players a week from the ls bank would be slap crazy to charge for a synth. I'm not saying this specifically about anyone posting in this thread since I'm not into judging people I don't know, but I think it goes without saying that if someone is handed 1M a week on average just for doing ls events their intentions when they 'craft for free' might not be as altruistic as we imagine. They are milking a cash cow just like people who charge for crafting.

For other players who don't enjoy a linkshell that has a 24 hour presence online and players maxed out on gear so they can sell drops, gil is hard to come by. They do not have the same incentive to do things for free since they are doing events for 'free' rather than getting paid for them.

It's also important to note that not everyone has been in the same linkshell for 4 years. My first week in a linkshell last year I made a cursed kabuto -1 and a thesso +1 and didn't see a dime for it. I worked my way up from 8th on the haidate list to 1st and 7th on the novio list to 2nd and then the shell broke after leaders had full homam/torques/etc. There was no 'give and take' in that situation and that is the situation that many, if not most, players find themselves in. Crafting big ticket hqs for free in an environment like that is just setting yourself up for a fall.

This.

[Niki]

The payout started only like a few month ago when we stopped with sponsoring relics. And even before nobody ever asked for a tip.
In my opinion its just wrong and greedy, but of course you can do whatever you want with your LS and your lv 100 craft.

[Saithorx]

So... in conclusion, there needs to be an agreement between the crafter and the LS. I thought I stated this in the first reply on page 1.


Different LS and different crafters will make different agreements (The agreement may be to craft for LS for no personal reward but to improve your LS). Just because one LS is successful doing it one way, doesn't meen it works for all. I don't know why you are arguing about this still.... unless it's because of the getting kicked for not being in agreement with the LS/Crafter.

[ZhanAsura]

Not even gonna bother, lol. Two posts above me explain it pretty well.

[Iskra]

The payout started only like a few month ago when we stopped with sponsoring relics. And even before nobody ever asked for a tip.
In my opinion its just wrong and greedy, but of course you can do whatever you want with your LS and your lv 100 craft.

i would never ask ppl to craft for me or for a ls without paying them, as for an exemple you talked about cerberus mantle hq. I would feel really cheap and greedy to not tip greatly a crafter that allowed us/me to get an HQ by paying all alone those countless nq that he did beforehand. Greed also work that way too.

[Darwinion]

You mean help the team profit off of a craft that they spent a lot of time and money leveling by themselves with no assistance from the ls whatsoever? I'm sorry, I just don't think that's fair to the crafter unless you make everyone in the shell level a craft to 100.

To be fair to Niki I have to agree with him. If someone applies to their LS (and they get plenty applying I know) then they should know in advance that they are expected to use their 100 craft for the benefit of the LS. There's a reason people apply to them... it's because they are a 24 hour LS that claims 80%ish of stuff on our server. So anyone joining them should be expected to use their skills and abilities to the full.

Of course I'm talking about items that have dropped from LS events and HNM kills. Stuff that you get yourself and want crafted on a 1-to-1 basis would be a different matter. If I "found" a bargain hide in a bazaar and got it crafted by 100 crafter in my LS I'd expect to share any HQ profit with the crafter. And I wouldn't expect any LS to want to take it from me.

[Sev]

I have to agree with the crafting for you linkshell for no charge no kickbacks in most shells. From what Niki is saying and my shell, they kick back gil (in niki's) or items (in my shell) it works. There have been cases where I start refusing to craft linkshell items that I have run into a) when your shell starts demanding you craft now! I ran into this when I would be exping/camping nm/doing mission. They would want me to drop everything and go craft instead of waiting for me to finish or sending/giving me the items. b) Shell demanding gil to replace materials on break. If I am taking my time to craft for you since you demand it you better not bitch at me if it breaks.

[Niki]

i would never ask ppl to craft for me or for a ls without paying them, as for an exemple you talked about cerberus mantle hq. I would feel really cheap and greedy to not tip greatly a crafter that allowed us/me to get an HQ by paying all alone those countless nq that he did beforehand. Greed also work that way too.

I dont know why i should feel cheap and greedy for that. Explain it please. And scratch the word "me", i'm only talking about synth materials obtained by the LS at events. I dont expect anyone to craft for me or any other LS member for free. Most do it anyway but thats everyones own decision.
I don't feel bad at all for expecting someone to help his LS, sorry. I really wonder whats going on in those Linkshells where ppl expect to get paid for helping the LS when they dont do or pay anything beside 5 minutes of their playtime. I'm proud to be where i am and i'm glad for every chance to help my LS.

[MillionDollarMan]

I dont know why i should feel cheap and greedy for that. Explain it please. And scratch the word "me", i'm only talking about synth materials obtained by the LS at events. I dont expect anyone to craft for me or any other LS member for free. Most do it anyway but thats everyones own decision.
I don't feel bad at all for expecting someone to help his LS, sorry. I really wonder whats going on in those Linkshells where ppl expect to get paid for helping the LS when they dont do or pay anything beside 5 minutes of their playtime. I'm proud to be where i am and i'm glad for every chance to help my LS.

what craft do you have 100?