Crafting for your Linkshell

[Amele]

They should not be obligated if they didn't advertise it as a selling point to invite them. But, if you were like "I have 75 PUP DNC and BLU, and I have level 100 Goldsmithing" on your application, you had better fucking synth our fucking manteels when I ask because we sure as fuck didn't invite you for your jobs.

^ right. which is why I put the disclaimer I did

[Talus]

I have always synthed for free for LS. I've accepted tips if people are offering, because I think it's rude not to accept it. Outside of the LS, if it's a friend, I'll most likely do the synth for free. If they're not a friend or I don't know them, I charge. Simple as that. The one caveat is if I break, I'm not replacing shit out of the goodness of my heart. It's a risk YOU assume when you trade me the materials, regardless of if it's a 400k behemoth hide, a 2m cerb hide, etc.

[dbdesigns]

Wow alot of stuck up cunts in this thread, lol. I craft for free period for anyone. Its fun to help people out, shit ill even go out of my way to do it sometimes. Maybe if I was in a gimp LS and didnt make millions of gil for doing events id be an average broke fuck and get pissed when I dont get 'tipped' but its all good.

[Theraven]

most of the people in this thread aren't saying that they *wouldn't* craft for their shell, just that, unless it was contingent on their getting into the shell, they shouldn't be *obligated* to craft for their shell.

^

I gladly craft whatever the shell asks me to craft, but if I was ever told "you have to craft this or your pearl is getting broken" I'd go ahead and drop the pearl before they got the chance to break it.

[Talus]

Wow alot of stuck up cunts in this thread, lol. I craft for free period for anyone. Its fun to help people out, shit ill even go out of my way to do it sometimes. Maybe if I was in a gimp LS and didnt make millions of gil for doing events id be an average broke fuck and get pissed when I dont get 'tipped' but its all good.

This may or may not have been directed at me along with some others in the thread. That's your prerogative to sometimes go out of your way to do it. I said earlier I craft free for LS, and friends as well. Strangers? Not so much. I'm taking time out of what I'd rather be doing in a game, that I play for my own personal amusement and enjoyment, that happens to have a social aspect, to help them out. It doesn't take long to synth something for somebody, but too many times I've been in a good mood, I get a random tell while I am doing something else, I head back to town to meet up with them, and they don't even have all the materials ready to go. Don't waste my time. Last I checked, that is definitely a nonrenewable resource.

It doesn't make someone a cunt, it's not like there's a paucity of high level crafters in ANY craft now, and some are much friendlier and willing to help than others. My problem is when people feel like they are entitled access to a high level crafter and their time. It's not even a privilege. They're doing you a favor, so at the very minimum, at least say thank you, even if they break your shit. A simple, "Thank you," or "Thanks for trying" goes a long way.

[Fasl]

I craft for my various linkshells and would not mind at all crafting end-game items. That is not the issue for me. Once you are a noted crafter then comes the real problem in my opinion - "normal items".

How about this "We need some poison pots for Vrtra, so why don't you just make 30 stacks for the LS for our run on Tuesday". Sleeping pots, yes please. I need some Prisms and Oils - can you make me some? And it gets better, can I put in an order for demon arrows, silver bullets, steel bullets, squid sushi +1 ("I can't stand the NQ now).

Then It becomes:

"I need some ninja tools and I am not willing to pay the AH price, can you make me some?"

Let me translate this for you:

"I am too busy levelling a ton of jobs, so "Lackey", go make me the stuff I need and do it for FREE!"

I am not the personal LS crafting slug - I am not the WALMART of Vanadiel either. Why on earth would I spend my time to farm materials, level the crafting skill and make normal stuff for someone, free?

I love the viewpoint that a stack of Sushi +1 cost as much as or even less than a stack of regular Sushi so why am I not selling to LS members for that price.

For you that don't craft I suggest that you walk a bit in our shoes and watch how it will evolve over the years. Then when it comes time to make the decision as to crafting for your linkshell, you will understand what it means in terms of your personal time.

Rant off, been there and done that. Lesson learned, crafting end-game items is ok with me - few synths and far between. But once you have broken that barrier, how do you say no to people who want to "break LS" because you didnt synth sushi or poison pots for the shell?"

[Spartin]

I have three crafts at 100 (Gold, Bone, Leathercraft) and I don't mind synthing the mats for the ls for certain things. If the synth is going to be used by a ls member in end game events, I have no problems at all doing that. HQ/NQ, it doesn't matter to me.Cursed gear, great I will do that no problem. I do mind when my skill is being used to pad the bank or members without any compensation for me. When I am synthing for members to make money off my crafts, I tell them to gtfo. I am not a substitution for farming. I am not a charity. I leveled gold through the 3.7m per stack gold phase and received 0 help from the ls getting to where I am now.

It generally isn't the ls as an entity that is the problem with crafting, it is the ls members. Like the above poster said, synth me this, synth me that. When the lotto happened I was sorely tempted to level cooking on my leather mule so I wasn't high enough to do dusk because I would get tells to do up batches of dusk to get hq on multiple occasions during all times of the day / night. Call me greedy, but unless you are a friend, I am not doing that. I joined a ls to kill things and have fun, not be a whore that is casually discarded after people get what they want out of me.

I have a question for the shell that makes it mandatory for people to craft the cerb mats etc. The members who do not have a craft at 100, or even have a craft at 10, do they get the same split as a person with multiple 100 crafts? If that is the case, what is the point of even leveling a craft at all or telling your ls you have a 100 craft if some schmoe can get the same benefits as someone who poured millions into a craft to 100 in a craft. Put that way, does it seem fair to the crafter who put all his time / money into a craft?

[Saithorx]

I believe their argument (not mine) is that you leveled the craft for yourself and not the shell. Therefor, you should use it just like if you leveled 75 BRD for yourself, you should use it for LS events if needed.

[Seyrr]

I craft for my various linkshells and would not mind at all crafting end-game items. That is How about this "We need some poison pots for Vrtra, so why don't you just make 30 stacks for the LS for our run on Tuesday". Sleeping pots, yes please. I need some Prisms and Oils - can you make me some? And it gets better, can I put in an order for demon arrows, silver bullets, steel bullets, squid sushi +1 ("I can't stand the NQ now).

Then It becomes:

"I need some ninja tools and I am not willing to pay the AH price, can you make me some?"

Let me translate this for you:

"I am too busy levelling a ton of jobs, so "Lackey", go make me the stuff I need and do it for FREE!"

I am not the personal LS crafting slug - I am not the WALMART of Vanadiel either. Why on earth would I spend my time to farm materials, level the crafting skill and make normal stuff for someone, free?

I actually want to ask your opinon on this... I worry that I may have been guilty of what you're describing, and I've tried to avoid it. Like, when I want shihei, I'll gather cone calamary and elm logs, and make the ink and bast parchment myself (I have most of my subcrafts in the 50-60 range). I'll ask "Hey, do you have time to make some shihei", and provide all of the ingredients and crystals myself (even temporary storage space if they don't have room). I've offered cooking services or TH4 whoring in return, though I usually get turned down.

I don't want to take them for granted, but I'm not the greatest at making money and so being able to make my resources stretch further is really important to me. Is that still taking advantage of them? How would you recommend I handle this?

[Hubie]

I think you're doing it just fine. It's not as though you're taking advantage of them. You are offering your services in return for theirs. I have some friends that make me some low level goldsmithing chains just for the chance of HQ. In return i make anything they want. If they HQ for me its like 100k profit for me, but if I hq for them its usually 10 times the profit. I don't look at it in a dollar sense but just an exchange of services. Hes willing to help me and i have no problem helping him in return.

I do however refuse certain items to people in general and they know that well in advance of synthing. There are a select few items that i leveled my crafts specifically to make. I know its garbage but id never give away a signed Gem Cuirass. Its something ive wanted since i started playing and thats the only reason. Well that and back in the day i paid 20 Mil for mine.

The other part that kills me is while i was camping AH's for materials and going crazy farming them, these people who want to use my sevices to synth were complaining about me not being at certain events (that i wasnt even needed for). So it was a problem i was skilling then, but now that i have it done and they want to use it its ok. Consistency is all i ask.

[Valyana]

Consistency is all i ask.

If you don't do whatever helps me the most RIGHT NOW you are a bad person and you should feel bad.

Seems consistent to me!

[Hubie]

Yep, fair enough! At least i know what i'm getting into.

[Darkmoon]

My shell, we just tip the crafter if they HQ, the tip ammount varies based on what was HQed.

Small things we let the crafter keep the HQ, and they just provide us a NQ. something like a Manteel, or Cerberus +1 we would give them aprox the NQ value sometimes more, and the bank sells the HQ (or gives it out etc).

We feel crafters should be rewarded for thier work that they do for LS. But in the same turn since we don't charge them when they break a LS synth, we don't feel the need to give them extreamly pricy HQs if they do HQ. So there is balance.

[willriker]

looks to me that the crafters are already benifiting with Niki's way of doing things. The LS crafters synth the items farmed up into items of more value. As much of it as possible is sold. Well, minus items on wish lists. The ls as a whole makes more money for its bank. This is in turn split among active members.

The end result is the crafters, and everyone else in ls, make more gil when the bank is distributed than if it were to simply sell the raw materials. So, yes the LS crafters do seem to be getting payed for their craft. In the end they should be making more money off of this system od doing things than they would if they simply sold the materials, uncrafted, away.

It is definately one way of doing things. I must say that i wish my LS does things in a similar fashion.

As it stands it seems that crafters are just being used by my LS to synth materials into finished products for sale. The sales are collected into an LS bank as well, but that is where the similarity ends. The LS i am currently in makes its members use LS points, the same points used to get wish list items, to buy gil packets on auction days. So, the crafters really see no return at all on thier efforts as they would have to forgo gaining wish list items to get gil packets instead.

As a crafter myself, i prefer Niki's way of doing things. It seems all make more money in the LS by acting as a team. Noone seems to be taken advantage of or being over compensated.