Being Proactive vs Reactive in FFXI

[Questionable]

In a way, I'm kind of frustrated with some people I'm playing with. Does anyone play with people who are very passive and won't do anything, as in just being Reactive to things? Like not sleeping a mob till someone is deep in red HP or not dispelling ice spikes till everyone is paralyzed 5x.

I'm not sure what I can do to teach these people to be more proactive in playing but it's not that they are new, they've played longer than me, and I've played around 4.5 years. Is it just some people just suck? I feel like I'm playing with robots that need commands or else they just stand there repeating a script without any creative thinking...

[Callisto]

I typically just yell. Well, textually. Use Caps Lock, and swear at them often, it's the only thing that gets attention most of the time.

[Lyramion]

A problem with many mages is that they cannot "feel" how it is to be a melee because they never leveled a melee job to a certain level.


Some people are very slow in their mind with crowd control. Playing Ballista helped me tons there. Always on the fence fro Gravity, Bind and Sleeps.

[isladar]

Talk to them afterwards and tell them how frustrating it is. Then stop playing with them.

[SamanosukeShiva]

tell them that they're retarded, stop playing with them, and steal his bike.

[Questionable]

Funny thing is, this particular person has more jobs @ 75 than me, many of them melee...

I can't stop playing with them, they are my friends but we've all tried to tell the person to do more things but they never learn? But sometimes it's driven us to the point we just want to say "Hey go find another group to do this event with"

[sleekmotorwurkz]

In a way, I'm kind of frustrated with some people I'm playing with. Does anyone play with people who are very passive and won't do anything, as in just being Reactive to things? Like not sleeping a mob till someone is deep in red HP or not dispelling ice spikes till everyone is paralyzed 5x.

I'm not sure what I can do to teach these people to be more proactive in playing but it's not that they are new, they've played longer than me, and I've played around 4.5 years. Is it just some people just suck? I feel like I'm playing with robots that need commands or else they just stand there repeating a script without any creative thinking...

I dont know if this is the same thing you are talking about... but there are certain people that take the game way more seriously then others. I for one, take it very serious. When I see a hnm pop and we are in desperate need for people to gather, and people are out xping, campaigning, etc and dont feel like coming, I tend to fly off the handle and start calling them out on it. Id say a fair amount of my ls thinks im an asshole, but I know that im doing it just to see the ls excel, and they arent helping.

From their point of view, its a video game, and if they dont feel like doing something in particular, and they are playing a game to have fun, they arent going to do it. From my point of view they are letting the ls down. Is either side "wrong"? Not really, there are 2 sides to every story. Some people play the game more seriously then others.

[chardero]

Gimp idiots will never change their ways.

[isladar]

But sometimes it's driven us to the point we just want to say "Hey go find another group to do this event with"

Then say this.

[Albender]

Depends...
There's many HNMLS that claim to be HNMLS when they are End-Game Shells. (Sea,Sky,Dynamis,Einherjar,etc)

If you belong to a HNMLS (so you do Cerberus, Fafhogg, etc...) and Cerbe pops (example) and you often refuse to go fight cause you don't want/need Algol or care on the materials dropped or even refuse to help camp then you better be off that shell.
Plain easy to me.

[chapstick]

A problem with many mages is that they cannot "feel" how it is to be a melee because they never leveled a melee job to a certain level.


Some people are very slow in their mind with crowd control. Playing Ballista helped me tons there. Always on the fence fro Gravity, Bind and Sleeps.

I agree with all of this. However since you said they have melee jobs and still play terrible support, I dunno what to say - try screaming at them.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

Depends...
There's many HNMLS that claim to be HNMLS when they are End-Game Shells. (Sea,Sky,Dynamis,Einherjar,etc)

If you belong to a HNMLS (so you do Cerberus, Fafhogg, etc...) and Cerbe pops (example) and you often refuse to go fight cause you don't want/need Algol or care on the materials dropped or even refuse to help camp then you better be off that shell.
Plain easy to me.

I dont think there are any linkshells (on lakshmi at least) that ONLY camp hnms, and not do ANY sea/sky/dynamis/einherjar/salvage/znm type stuff. And if anything taking off the shell just makes you look worse. Especially when you have low numbers and youre starting to /sea people and find them all over the place and not in the shell, when you know they were just talking 5 minutes before it popped.

[Isiolia]

Usually what I find is that people react according to prior experience, particularly from their first job or two.

Maybe it's in part because someone's initial job choice is (possibly) influenced by how they think. A player that chose DRK first because they wanted to hit stuff and see big numbers is probably going to play BLM later on a bit differently than someone who chose WHM or RDM to start with.

Not necessarily negative, since a PLD playing a RDM will have learned to appreciate enfeebles, Haste/Refresh, not being overhealed on PLD, etc.

[Cakes]

A problem with many mages is that they cannot "feel" how it is to be a melee because they never leveled a melee job to a certain level.


Some people are very slow in their mind with crowd control. Playing Ballista helped me tons there. Always on the fence fro Gravity, Bind and Sleeps.

I completely agree with the Ballista thing, but i'm not sure if I agree with the first part.

In my experience, the worst support jobs and mage players have almost always been (up until that point) exclusively Melee-only players. Going along with this, most of the best melee players i've met originally began as a mage job.
I think there's something about the 'mentality' of a mage which translates well to different types of play. Although playing as a melee, you get to experience what good support is, and hold onto that when you become a mage, often the support goes unnoticed, and the transition from 'good melee player' to 'good support player' is no where near as smooth.

[Spekkio]

the problem is that most blm have it ingrained in their minds that they're dd. they CAN be, but that's not what they're best at. melees can cause a mob's HP to fall just like a blm, but no other job has sleepga2. that's a very defining trait to blm and in situations like dynamis, if mobs are up and running amok, a blm who's nuking anything but a statue that's pinning down people and killing them RIGHT NOW is not doing their job. remind them of the special abilities only THEY posses and how critical it is that they use them to their fullest.

[Deadhands]

Yes they can just suck, sometimes they can get better, most times not. If you're not looking to distance yourself from playing with them then you need to either explain to them what they need to be doing and if it doesn't stick then make them come as a job that isn't going to make or break the group.

[Hoshiku]

Just because a person has a job leveled does not necessarily mean that they will be good at it. If they have multiple jobs and are absolutely atrocious at one of them, try having another multi job player swap jobs with them.

[Lyramion]

In my experience, the worst support jobs and mage players have almost always been (up until that point) exclusively Melee-only players. Going along with this, most of the best melee players i've met originally began as a mage job.
I think there's something about the 'mentality' of a mage which translates well to different types of play. Although playing as a melee, you get to experience what good support is, and hold onto that when you become a mage, often the support goes unnoticed, and the transition from 'good melee player' to 'good support player' is no where near as smooth.

I tend to agree with this haha i started out as WHM and then after became a NIN.


I am taking a practical example:

Playing Salvage almost exclusively as WHM I only knew it from a WHM standpoint. Getting to play NIN after a few months sometimes and tanking the chariots by myself changed my views on some things and changed my priorities on spells and also gave a different understanding to cell lotting.

So having played NIN really benefited my WHM play in Salvage while vice versa playing WHM helped to get a better view on the whole scale of salvage because playing a DDtank is a very busy job and leaves little time to look around.

[Thistle]

Usually what I find is that people react according to prior experience, particularly from their first job or two.

Maybe it's in part because someone's initial job choice is (possibly) influenced by how they think. A player that chose DRK first because they wanted to hit stuff and see big numbers is probably going to play BLM later on a bit differently than someone who chose WHM or RDM to start with.

I can see that.

My first job was DRK, but in my whole trip to 75, I never once partied with a BRD (this was three+ years back so that wasn't as odd as it'd be today). I 'grew up' never knowing the difference a BRD could make to a melee. My next job was BRD and I was so amazingly meh about it -- my static melees told me what a big difference it made, but I never once experienced that difference so I never really broke out of the 'songs really don't matter all that much' mindset. Same thing when I later took COR to 75. I'm not a slacker about songs/rolls, I keep the right ones on the right people as close to 100% of the time as possible, but even today I feel like it really doesn't matter all that much for melees. (Mages are different since you can see the MP ticking back.)

Maybe I need to level another melee job just to see what the difference is like.

[Yugl]

I completely agree with the Ballista thing, but i'm not sure if I agree with the first part.

In my experience, the worst support jobs and mage players have almost always been (up until that point) exclusively Melee-only players. Going along with this, most of the best melee players i've met originally began as a mage job.
I think there's something about the 'mentality' of a mage which translates well to different types of play. Although playing as a melee, you get to experience what good support is, and hold onto that when you become a mage, often the support goes unnoticed, and the transition from 'good melee player' to 'good support player' is no where near as smooth.

I think the real issue with moving from a melee to a mage class is MP management, whether or not the issue is knowing when you're casting too many spells or not enough spells causes concern for new time mages. Then again, even if you do play your first mage class well, it won't go as noticed. Whens the last time you told your RDM they had good MP management or a good haste cycle?