Opinions on new BRD Torque

[Tsukasaz]

Just found this on the AH: "Piper Torque" level 69 or something, forgot and logged off already.

CHR+5
Wind Instrument Skill+5
Campaign: Wind Instrument Skill+10

Searched for "Piper Torque" and found no threads/post.

Discuss.

[Arthars]

i will use it over wind torque for sure

and sell wind torque for 350k

im not the super duper wind instrument skill brd fan so this one "seem" better to me

[Thorny]

If it's under 500k I'll buy one and hang onto wind torque for buffs, otherwise fuck it. It's not that big an increase for debuffs anyway.

[SamanosukeShiva]

great for elegy i guess =o

[Therin]

Always confused me. Is that +10 skill for campaign, or +15 (are the effects additive)?

Similarly, does the Viator Cape (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Viator_Cape) give only HP+15 HP+5% in Campaign, or does it give HP+30 HP+5%?

[ringthree]

There are items that have both effects but similar descriptions. Only way to know for sure is to test them.

[Tsukasaz]

I think it means Wind Instrument Skill +15 in campaign, but we all know BRDs don't do campaign anymore, or if they do, they don't focus on enfeebling the mob.

[dendryte]

Main question is whether CHR+5 or Wind skill +2 will give more magic accuracy in practice. I believe it would be, but I have no data to back this up. I think I have access to enough gear (no g.horn though) to be able to test bard magic accuracy in general (e.g. trying different combinations of wind skill, singing skill, charisma, and magic accuracy) if I can get some help with devising a proper test. But if this has already been tested, well, then I'm just dumb.

[Fwahm]

If magic skill works like melee skill (quite likely), then 5 chr is worth 2.5 magic accuracy, while 2 skill is worth 1.8 magic accuracy (when above 200).

[Callisto]

I think it might also matter if you're sitting right on the edge of a March tier, where that 2 skill would bump you up to 513 or w/e the tier was at. Not a huge deal, but if you're trying to min/max things like that you may want to keep the Wind Torque.

[Valyana]

March tiers are 0.1% Haste every 6-7 skill.

http://bg-wiki.com/Victory_March#Notes

[Yvonne]

It's not a bad torque at all. If your LS can help you farm it, then by all means. Freebies via NM drops aren't bad in most cases.

Wind Torque is still 300k, so if you own both, might as well get some of that gil back by selling it. -2 skill won't be noticeable unless (like everyone else is saying) you're boarder lining a tier.

[Lordwafik]

I'd take it over wind torque for the sake of inventory. I'm not a min/maxing bard so I don't care about 2 skill more than I care about 2 slots.

[Funkworkz]

One thing which is overlooked by the endgame bard is the duration of your songs. Sure the instruments provide +2 (6 seconds roughly) but sometimes bards dont notice their debuffs/sleep songs wear off early sometimes. the only real explanation i can come up with is a low CHR base and too much skill... This is very noticable in Dynamis when the occasional mobs wake up earlier than the rest of the group when you know nobody overwrote you with a sleepga II.

I wont go into it any more than that unless someone wants to start a debate, but I would wear this for offensive songs, and macro in my Wind Torque for that coveted March tier

[dendryte]

One thing which is overlooked by the endgame bard is the duration of your songs. Sure the instruments provide +2 (6 seconds roughly) but sometimes bards dont notice their debuffs/sleep songs wear off early sometimes. the only real explanation i can come up with is a low CHR base and too much skill... This is very noticable in Dynamis when the occasional mobs wake up earlier than the rest of the group when you know nobody overwrote you with a sleepga II.

I wont go into it any more than that unless someone wants to start a debate, but I would wear this for offensive songs, and macro in my Wind Torque for that coveted March tier

I've had a Troubadour'd ES Elegy wear at around the non-troubadour duration once; I did check the logs and verified that I did activate troubadour before casting elegy, and the only reason I could come up with was that I cast elegy too early after using troubadour(?). I haven't seen a elegy half-resist otherwise. Lullaby resistance happens a lot in campaign -- sleep the same monster for a while and lullaby starts wearing after a few seconds or is resisted outright. Swapping out of gimp melee gear back to normal gear then gives full duration lullabies again for a bit.

[Bardlet]

I don't know, unless it's cheaper than a Wind Torque and you're a new/cheap BRD, I can't see using this over a Wind Torque.

My Elegy/Ltng. Threnody set has me at 70+41 CHR (not counting Gleeman's Belt, since I usually leave it in my MH), and +20 Wind Skill. I don't personally feel that 2 less wind skill and 5 more CHR will help land it more reliably on particularly resistant mobs (I've even tried adding in a Gleeman's Belt into my waste slot for a bigger CHR boost... didn't help).

Likewise, my Finale/Lullaby set has +12 Skill and 70+36 CHR. Again, I don't see how losing 2 skill and adding 5 CHR is going to help with the land rate at all.

If I did Campaign regularly on BRD, and actually got something worthwhile for enfeebling the mobs (ie, I didn't need to wear melee gear and sub NIN to get any kind of reasonable points...), then yeah, I'd bother with it. Otherwise, I can't see it being worth the loss of skill, even if it *is* only 2 points.

[liggy 0]

but forgive me on this math.

currently:
heavens ring = 5 chr
wind torque: 7

change to:
piper's : 5 chr, 5 skill
nereid: 3 skill

wouldn't i actually *gain* another level?

I think they meant
wind torque + nereid for +10 just to hit a cap, (if they needed the 2skill for buffs)

[Meat]

One thing which is overlooked by the endgame bard is the duration of your songs. Sure the instruments provide +2 (6 seconds roughly) but sometimes bards dont notice their debuffs/sleep songs wear off early sometimes. the only real explanation i can come up with is a low CHR base and too much skill... This is very noticable in Dynamis when the occasional mobs wake up earlier than the rest of the group when you know nobody overwrote you with a sleepga II.

I wont go into it any more than that unless someone wants to start a debate, but I would wear this for offensive songs, and macro in my Wind Torque for that coveted March tier

This will be the 1st piece I'll get when i get my character unhacked.

I cant remember exact numbers but I'm fairly certain was was less than total 100 CHR.
My primary body piece being a shadow coat(I got hacked afk waiting to pick up my jubbah). I did an overload on skill because I was primarily an hnm bard so it was all about getting that elegy to stick on something pesky like a cerb without ES. my gear looked something like

DH+1
torque
singing\musical
shadow coat
nerid\omega
Nq hands\legs
Astute cape
Gleeman's Belt
oracle's pigaches

[Callisto]

I guess tied to that, anyone have opinions on Oracle's vs. Errant/Osode on debuffing?

[Bakthi]

I don't know, unless it's cheaper than a Wind Torque and you're a new/cheap BRD, I can't see using this over a Wind Torque.

My Elegy/Ltng. Threnody set has me at 70+41 CHR (not counting Gleeman's Belt, since I usually leave it in my MH), and +20 Wind Skill. I don't personally feel that 2 less wind skill and 5 more CHR will help land it more reliably on particularly resistant mobs (I've even tried adding in a Gleeman's Belt into my waste slot for a bigger CHR boost... didn't help).

Likewise, my Finale/Lullaby set has +12 Skill and 70+36 CHR. Again, I don't see how losing 2 skill and adding 5 CHR is going to help with the land rate at all.

This, although my numbers are a bit different, but my answer is the same in principle. I...don't have problems enfeebling. I don't need more CHR. I am, however, using wind torque to hit tiers on march and madrigal, and I like my rings the way they are for those buffs (Nereid + Minstrel's, just in case it's going to trigger; Spellcast would have difficulty determining this properly due to gear changes). Basically, this wouldn't save me an inventory slot, and it wouldn't really help me land debuffs better.

As for campaign...please. I sometimes...rarely...get resists on a general while wearing my melee gear. I do a lot of campaign, but I've never really felt the need for campaign-only gear (my BRD's melee gear is 100% used on other jobs). Maybe if those Refresh feet come to light.

Now...what I don't do is camp everyone's favorite drama-sinks. I suppose my answer might be different if I did. For the slot, this is a very similar argument to AF+1 vs. Marduk's Shalwar; giving up a bit of skill for a larger amount of CHR. It's a good trade, though not quite as good as on the pants, but for what I do (everything else) and to match the rest of my gear, not one that would benefit me.

As for Oracle's, I guess it depends on determining what amount of CHR = what amount of m.acc, and I've never seen a test to that effect. BRD has a fair amount of m.acc gear available now, possibly enough for a test. If you assume that 2 CHR = 1 m.acc, then Oracle's is equal to Jubbah and better than everything but Shadow/Valk, but I'm not sure that's a safe assumption.

(You also have to take other things into account; even if I didn't have Jubbah and felt that Oracle's was the best debuff body, I'd still carry Errant/Osode for Stoneskin.)