BRD: Ixion Cloak vs. Errant + AF2 Head

[Znake]

I recently got an Ixion Cloak (yay!) to replace my Royal Cloak for BRD, since I don't have nor will I be getting a Jubbah or Dalmy anytime soon. I wanted it mainly because it serves the same purpose as Royal Cloak (Refresh) and has some nice added perks. But now I'm wondering (the m.acc thread got me thinking) if it'd be the better choice for debuffs as well.

Ixion Cloak:
+13 CHR
+5 Magic Accuracy

Errant Houppelande + Bard's Roundlet:
+15 CHR
+5 Singing Skill


I suppose the difference is very small, and the Cloak would only really be better when you're past the CHR you need (~100-110), assuming Skill = 0.9 MAcc. Though if it's CHR = 0.5 Skill (or MAcc, I forgot) too, then Ixion Cloak falls short. It's just I hadn't considered using the Cloak for debuffing so it striked me as odd that it would be so incredibly similar as the other setup, and I hadn't seen this analysis (albeit, very simple) anywhere so I decided to share.

[Omnipotent]

Get a minstrels, sell your vermy and ixion cloak, find 500k-1M depending on server get a manteel. Have errant + manteel = Success.

[Lordwafik]

Get a minstrels, sell your vermy and ixion cloak, find 500k-1M depending on server get a manteel. Have errant + manteel = Success.

No way. During some events the regen+refresh is great , especially when stacked with other things (Einherjar, Dynamis, low man limbus). Sell the vermy though, it's useless now.

[Spekkio]

i think it may be a tough call to try to say a is better than b. certainly it does go a long way towards a strong auto-regen build with orochi and marduk hands. cloak is a very attractive option if you're a brd in salvage and don't get head cell though.

[crux]

The CHR isn't much of a bother depending on the other gear obtained, but I doubt this question could be answered sufficiently until someone figures out a way to better test various debuff variables with Bard. Magic Accuracy has to be compared to two skills instead of one, like with Enfeebling skill, and we still don't have an accurate grasp of how Singing and Wind work in conjunction. With Enfeebling skill, Magic Accuracy becomes more potent as Enfeebling skill goes up. Bard, on the other hand, can only get a single skill so high, as they naturally cap at 225. Combined, the skills equal a considerable amount, but no one has narrowed down the relationship between skills in order to even start to figure out at what levels Magic Accuracy becomes more potent for Bard.

[Antithesis]

I find that the 2 slot Refresh body for Bards is kind of lackluster for the most part. If I got an Ixon's Cloak id sell it and get a Dalmatica just because I think Dalmatica > Ixon Cloak. I can not stand not wearing my head armor so maybe its just me. +13 CHR and another Regen is always nice but personally thats just me.

For Skill + CHR setup I would use: Errant body, Shadow Coat, Marduk's Jubbah or Sha'ir Manteel depending on the situation and or what I have.

For MP Build: Dalmatica, Goliard Saio, Ixon Cloak, Royal Cloak, etc.

Personally I'd use the Goliard Body more often on /SCH sub than on /WHM (until my MP reserves start running low which doesnt happen often with /SCH) because the haste + conserve mp I find more useful than just 1 mp a tick. On /WHM id definatly use Dalmy more than Goliard.

[eva00r]

I always find that Ixion Cloak > all in any situation. Because I'm not a min/max BRD, I care about MP gain even when singing and moreover, I don't want to waste any of my precious inventory space.

[Vigilia]

If I got an Ixon's Cloak id sell it and get a Dalmatica just because I think Dalmatica > Ixon Cloak.

I don't know what game you play on but last I checked Dalms weren't available at AH or Rolanmart. Ixion cloaks on the other hand are plentiful.

I've been using Ixion Cloak for BRD enfeebles ever since I got one for my SCH (selling it is not an option as it was given by the LS and I wouldn't want to sell it either, I also have Manteel and Dalmatica). And I by far prefer Ixion cloak over Errant + AF2 hat. I have 4 wind skill merits and that's it and never going to get more unless SE raises category caps again. I find I get much more consistant results, especially with Requiem that never before used to stick for me as reliably as it does now. If I had the time I'd go sing a thousand requiems on some Sky mobs to get definitive results but alas I don't. I just know that until Ixion I could not for the life of me stick requiem on Salvage bosses after Soul Voice wore off. Now I keep it on them for the entire duration of the fight. We do 6-7-man salvage runs so lack of cells is rarely an issue but the less cells I get the more it shines.

[Kainos]

I recently got an Ixion Cloak (yay!) to replace my Royal Cloak for BRD, since I don't have nor will I be getting a Jubbah or Dalmy anytime soon. I wanted it mainly because it serves the same purpose as Royal Cloak (Refresh) and has some nice added perks. But now I'm wondering (the m.acc thread got me thinking) if it'd be the better choice for debuffs as well.

NOT including Jubbah, which would be the best body piece, i will argue that ix'cloak is your best choice for debuffing. However this is also dependant on if you have any wind/sing merits and a few other pieces of gear. While dalmy is a nice e-peen piece, it does nothing you cant get from a vermy.

Now assuming you have at least 3 merits in singing skill, the only difference would be 2CHR which is nothing. So that leaves us with Mag. Acc. +5, which i believe is what makes it better choice. Take that +5 and lets stack it, ill list below:

Ix cloak +5
balhran ring +4
omega ring +3
goliard clogs +2
light/earth grip +2

= 16 Magic Accuracy

Now i know there is not a lot of conclusive test on Mag. acc. but i think most will agree that +16 is nothing to scoff at. Obviously this requires certain gear that you may or may not have but for me the important thing with cloak is that you can full time it. Even on buffs ( might want to swap af hat for march or madrigal, but u can hit cap of most buffs) Getting a full benefit of refresh/regen to me is a huge plus, especially for long fights. Again it would be helpful to know if you have the gear/merits to do this.

btw i am still working to get the cloak myself, but i have borrowed one a few times for events and i liked it very much.

[Spekkio]

NOT including Jubbah, which would be the best body piece, i will argue that ix'cloak is your best choice for debuffing. However this is also dependant on if you have any wind/sing merits and a few other pieces of gear. While dalmy is a nice e-peen piece, it does nothing you cant get from a vermy.

Now assuming you have at least 3 merits in singing skill, the only difference would be 2CHR which is nothing. So that leaves us with Mag. Acc. +5, which i believe is what makes it better choice. Take that +5 and lets stack it, ill list below:

Ix cloak +5
balhran ring +4
omega ring +3
goliard clogs +2
light/earth grip +2

= 16 Magic Accuracy

Now i know there is not a lot of conclusive test on Mag. acc. but i think most will agree that +16 is nothing to scoff at. Obviously this requires certain gear that you may or may not have but for me the important thing with cloak is that you can full time it. Even on buffs ( might want to swap af hat for march or madrigal, but u can hit cap of most buffs) Getting a full benefit of refresh/regen to me is a huge plus, especially for long fights. Again it would be helpful to know if you have the gear/merits to do this.

btw i am still working to get the cloak myself, but i have borrowed one a few times for events and i liked it very much.

adding in the other slots is irrelevant as you could wear an omega ring with or without the ixion cloak. in addition, wearing an af2 head does not turn off your singing merits, so you can not discount the skill that it affords. the only relevant calculations are between the 2 gear configs you're considering.
a.) ixion cloak: +5 magic accuracy (and regen/refresh but doesn't affect debuff)
b.) af2/+10 chr body: +2 chr, +5 singing skill
so this leaves us to try to determine if 2 chr and 5 singing skill is more or less powerful than 5 magic accuracy and without figures for macc, we can't really answer that.

i'd be curious too if the math would change for a player who owns a marduk's tiara. relevant stats are +3 chr, +7 singing skill meaning you're comparing 5 macc to 7 singing skill. also looking forward to trying to squeeze some tests out of my soon to be shadow coat (valk coat if through some bizzare act, one of my 3 remaining cursed coat synths turns out an HQ!) vs af+1 body.

[anathema]

I like using full yigit for idle/curing/ballads/precast and then whenever I sing, equip optimum chr/skill gear. That way I get refresh while idle or curing, and the -10% cast time when I sing buffs. Plus Yigit triples as a great hMP set and lolevasion idle set.

[Spekkio]

except allow you to wear a headpiece?

well that's not a huge issue since refresh body is a standing piece for refresh. if you lose 2 MP while you cast a song, it's not a game breaker in most situations. same is true of black cloak vs af2 body for blm (old debate, yes, but it's the same idea) af2 body is cool to be sure, but a black cloak is a perfectly acceptable substitute for standing and you nuke in weskt/head of choice. regardless, the ixion cloak is the superior standing piece due to regen for just about any job that can use it which alone makes it an attractive piece. with orochi/ixion/marduk hands a whm or a brd/whm can hit 4 hp/tick regen before any spells which is a great way to recover from some AoE damage w/o wasting a single MP. that's almost a free cure2 every minute which imo is very valuable.

[Kainos]

adding in the other slots is irrelevant as you could wear an omega ring with or without the ixion cloak. in addition, wearing an af2 head does not turn off your singing merits, so you can not discount the skill that it affords. the only relevant calculations are between the 2 gear configs you're considering.
a.) ixion cloak: +5 magic accuracy (and regen/refresh but doesn't affect debuff)
b.) af2/+10 chr body: +2 chr, +5 singing skill
so this leaves us to try to determine if 2 chr and 5 singing skill is more or less powerful than 5 magic accuracy and without figures for macc, we can't really answer that.

i'd be curious too if the math would change for a player who owns a marduk's tiara. relevant stats are +3 chr, +7 singing skill meaning you're comparing 5 macc to 7 singing skill. also looking forward to trying to squeeze some tests out of my soon to be shadow coat (valk coat if through some bizzare act, one of my 3 remaining cursed coat synths turns out an HQ!) vs af+1 body.

I dont think the other slots are irrelavant b/c m acc. is more potent the more its stacked, so it would be +11 m. acc VS +16 m. acc

Also i can discount the sing skill, you can merit the sing skill but not m. acc. From personal experience i feel the cloak is better, but again it would depend on persons merits/gear. If you can get over 500 combined skill WITH cloak, i believe it would be better. If not might want to stick with AF2 hat.

[Kainos]

except allow you to wear a headpiece?

lol you're calling me out? why dont you mention their your headpiece is an opo-opo crown, which goes great with those heavens rings btw! I've read your bullshit BRD post's before and still dont get why you feel the need to add your 2 cents for a job you admitadly care nothing for.

[Spekkio]

I dont think the other slots are irrelavant b/c m acc. is more potent the more its stacked, so it would be +11 m. acc VS +16 m. acc

Also i can discount the sing skill, you can merit the sing skill but not m. acc. From personal experience i feel the cloak is better, but again it would depend on persons merits/gear. If you can get over 500 combined skill WITH cloak, i believe it would be better. If not might want to stick with AF2 hat.

evidence that macc scales in any other fashion than linearly? we're still trying to get a handle on even vaguely how much macc affects resist rates and you're making wild conjectures that stacking macc makes every prior point of macc more powerful. i'm not biting.

you can't discount singing skill because if you have 3 merits in singing skill, by putting on the af2 hat, they don't suddenly evaporate. brd singing skill caps at 225. if you have 3 merits and wear an ixion cloak you have 231 skill. if you have 3 merits and wear a bard's roundlet you have 236 skill. therefore you have more skill while wearing the roundlet regardless of merits and the singing skill on it is relevant. yes, i've just demonstrated addition still applies. if i were to buy your logic, i should dispose of my genie tiara and instead wear my morrigan's coronal to sleep because i have 5 enfeebling merits so i'm only getting 1 skill out of the tiara.

[Antithesis]

I don't know what game you play on but last I checked Dalms weren't available at AH or Rolanmart. Ixion cloaks on the other hand are plentiful.

I've been using Ixion Cloak for BRD enfeebles ever since I got one for my SCH (selling it is not an option as it was given by the LS and I wouldn't want to sell it either, I also have Manteel and Dalmatica). And I by far prefer Ixion cloak over Errant + AF2 hat. I have 4 wind skill merits and that's it and never going to get more unless SE raises category caps again. I find I get much more consistant results, especially with Requiem that never before used to stick for me as reliably as it does now. If I had the time I'd go sing a thousand requiems on some Sky mobs to get definitive results but alas I don't. I just know that until Ixion I could not for the life of me stick requiem on Salvage bosses after Soul Voice wore off. Now I keep it on them for the entire duration of the fight. We do 6-7-man salvage runs so lack of cells is rarely an issue but the less cells I get the more it shines.

I am sorry I believe that was my fault for not being specific enough. If you have the Abj for Dalmatica then Id sell Ixon's Cloak and buy a Dalmy. To me honestly Ixon's Cloak is more of a trophy item for Bard. It DOES have its uses (Like you stated which is fantastic) but there are body armors far superior to it. Again that's just my personal opinion, if you want to use Ixon's Cloak go right ahead. I dont like it that much but there's nothing wrong with using it.

[Kainos]

evidence that macc scales in any other fashion than linearly? we're still trying to get a handle on even vaguely how much macc affects resist rates and you're making wild conjectures that stacking macc makes every prior point of macc more powerful. i'm not biting.

you can't discount singing skill because if you have 3 merits in singing skill, by putting on the af2 hat, they don't suddenly evaporate. brd singing skill caps at 225. if you have 3 merits and wear an ixion cloak you have 231 skill. if you have 3 merits and wear a bard's roundlet you have 236 skill. therefore you have more skill while wearing the roundlet regardless of merits and the singing skill on it is relevant. yes, i've just demonstrated addition still applies. if i were to buy your logic, i should dispose of my genie tiara and instead wear my morrigan's coronal to sleep because i have 5 enfeebling merits so i'm only getting 1 skill out of the tiara.

I'm not going to comment on BLM b/c I dont play the job but you are missing my point on the skill. I don't believe in gimping your gear for stats that can be merited. I have 8/8 sing skill merits, that puts me at 241 singing skill. I sacrifice the +5 skill i get for af2 hat for a stat that i can only get from gear (Mag. Acc +5) For DEBUFFS the af2 hat will make no difference for the majority of the activities I will be doing on BRD, i could be using W. Turban and still be able to land my songs. For BRD you want to stack a lot of skill, but for DEBUFFS there comes a point where Mag. Acc. will serve you better in some slots because you already have reached the tier you need to not resist(skill).

The question in play is Ix Cloak VS Errant Body/AF2 Head when DEBUFFING. I am saying that with merits and enough skill gear in other slots Ix Cloak is the winner.You are getting +5 Mag. Acc, plus a fantastic bonus of refresh/regen on the same piece. Now if you dont have the available gear in other slots to have a good amount of combined skill or if you spent your magic merits on other things like elemental, enfeeble ect. than as I said before you might be better of using the AF2 hat. Personaly though, from just my own experience i think wind skill has more of an effect on debuffs than sing. I havnt seen any test from it, but i would be interested.

[Yvonne]

Back to the topic, I feel that Ixion Cloak > AF2 hat/Errant, just because of the Refresh/Regen bonus. It's up to a player's preference really. No one is wrong here, let alone right. I own an Ixion Cloak and all I can say it's pretty spiffy.

[drwaffles]

Might as well idle and debuff in Ixion Cloak until you get Marduk's Tiara or Jubbah, then you'll want to debuff/idle and debuff in those respectively.

[Znake]

So we can't conclude anything until we know exactly how Magic Accuracy works. Makes sense. For now though, Ixion Cloak appears to be on par with Errant + AF2 Roundlet, making which one is better just a matter of preference. Either way, you'd be idling in Ixion Cloak for the Refresh & Regen. I think we all agree that Marduk's Jubbah is quite superior to either of those setups and we'd all idle (although I suppose Ixion Cloak is better for idling, because of the Regen, but I don't think anyone would keep a Cloak having a Jubbah) and debuff in it if we had one.