Star Wars: The Old Republic Random Question/Discussion thread - F2P

[Xerlic]

I don't think its that TERA stole your show, I think its more ppl didn't like the "community" thing. Least thats what I picked up when you tried to pitch the idea before

He means TERA has more hype on these forums than SWTOR since one has a subforum, a BG "community" organized guild and five times the posts while the other only has an all-inclusive thread with a bunch of people doing their own thing as far as guild organization goes.

[Zerocool]

Could just be a lot of people are waiting it out to see how the game turns out before they commit to anything. People have actually been able to play TERA for themselves so most of them know if they'll be playing it at NA launch or not. But I think a lot of people are still on the fence for TOR about whether it will be a long term game for them or not.

[Meko]

Could be that maybe there aren't that many jedi helmet wearing mofo's! But seriously, if it's just a WoW clone in space, people will get bored with it like everything else I'm afraid.

[Katlan]

Could be that maybe there aren't that many jedi helmet wearing mofo's! But seriously, if it's just a WoW clone w/ BioWare storytelling, people will get bored with it like everything else I'm afraid.

Unfortunantly this. But i fixed your original statement

[Man0warr]

Just accept it. Investors/companies aren't going to put hundreds of millions on the line to test out some new MMO model - WoW is the only thing that has had proven success in the last half decade. Bioware said from the beginning they are targeting the WoW market.

They have room to innovate in other areas. 200 hours of storytelling and voice acting, companion characters, Legacy system are all steps in a new direction that MMOs haven't done before.

The class/advancement/endgame systems will be copied for the foreseeable future. They are doing enough different to grab a huge share of the market, unlike Rift. Rift's one big innovation was the Rifts themselves and they failed to capitalize on them.

The only reason WoW is dying is it's age and the fact that Blizzard has pulled the majority of it's resources after the development of WotLK was finished. Blizzard has done just enough with B-teamers to keep it on life support, doing whatever they could to keep the most amount of subs until Titan releases. That includes adding hardmodes to reuse/extend content, redoing talent system to keep it fresh, and upping the major patch cycles to 6 months. People aren't tired of the WoW model (really the MMO model) as much as they are just tired of WoW.

[vrumpt]

The problem is not a lot of people have played it, so they can only judge from the outside. "Mouse click to target mobs? Yeah its a WoW clone lololololololol". It gets seriously stupid. Opinions completely change when they actually get hands on with the game, and people come out loving it. You go in with an objective opinion everything works fine, but haters gonna hate, always.

Of course there are things like talent points and action bars that WoW has others are going to use, you'd be stupid not to use those aspects because they work so well. Bioware knows this and thats why they did what they did.

[Isiolia]

People aren't tired of the WoW model (really the MMO model) as much as they are just tired of WoW.

While I'd agree that's true for some people, I think there are also a fair amount of people like myself who really are actually tired of the MMO model. You then get an additional hurdle of convincing potential customers that your new game won't devolve into barely disguised operant conditioning like the last one they played. The longer time goes on, and the more people get exposed to the model, and the harder sell a new MMO will be.

Essentially, a post-WoW MMO has to overcome the stigma of WoW. There were MMOs prior to WoW, of course, but their subscription bases were comparably small, exposing far less of the gaming population to the genre. With far more people having first or second-hand MMO experience, the willingness to jump could well decrease based on that prior experience.

[Kwijiboe]

Crafting leaked at alterswtor.. I made a writeup for it.. one sec.

[Kwijiboe]

Note: "Artifact" typically means items for Force Users. "Prototype" typically means items for Non-Force Users.

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Recommended Force User Specializations

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ARCHAELOGY- GATHER/LEARN

Archaeology is the study of crystal formations and archaelogical finds. Crystal formations contain crystals that an Artficer can use to construct lighstaber modifications and armor for force users. Archaeological finds contain artifact fragments of Force-imbued technology. These valuable items contain ancient formulas and algorithms used in Artifice and Synthweaving. Archaelogical finds possibly conceal rare datacron components that are used in the creation of attribute-enhancing Matrix Cubes. Archaeologists can send their companion on missions to gather resources.

(My Notes)
-Finds crafting recipes and/or material for:
+Artifice
+Synthweaving
-Chance of finding rare recipes for Matrix Cubes (Lightsaber crafting?)
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ARTIFICE - CREATE/LEARN

Artifice is the delicate skill of constructing lightsaber modifications, armor overlays and underlays, focii, and feet and wrist items for Force user's combat attributes. Color crystals, focus lens, hilts, and emitter matrices that augment a Force user's combat attributes. Color crystals also determie the lightsaber's beam color. Armor overlays and underlays provide additional armor protection and augment combat prowess. Artificers can reverse engineer their crafted focii, feet and wrist armor and possibly discover new ways to improve armor creation. The gathering skill Archaeology provides crafting resources for Artifice.

(My Notes)
-Create lightsaber modifications.
+Lightsaber modifications probably affect respective combat attributes:
++Power crystals (STR?)
++Color (?)(Also style)
++Focus Lens (ACC?)
++Hilts (?)
++Emitter matrices (?)

-Create force-user misc equipment.
+Armor Overlays/Underlays. (DEF stats?)

-Can reverse engineer to possibly discover new crafting recipes.(?)
--Note: Seems to suggest that you can only reverse engineer crafted items.

*Archaelogy provides material for this spec.
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SYNTHWEAVING - CREATE/LEARN

Synthweaving is the process of fabricating synthetic materials out of crystals, various chemicals, and artifact fragments to construct armor for force users. Vendors provide premade solutions, suspensions and compostes that are used during the Synthweaving process. Synthweavers can reverse engineer their crafted armor and possibly discover new ways to improve armor creation. The gathering skill archaeology provides crafting resources for synthweaving.

(My Notes)
-Create Force user armor.
-Requires purchases from vendor to craft armor. (money sink?)
-Can reverse engineer to possibly discover new crafting recipes.
--Note: Seems to suggest that you can only reverse engineer crafted items.
*Archaeology provides material for this spec.
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[Kwijiboe]

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Recommeded Non-Force User Specializations.
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ARMORMECH- CREATE/LEARN

Armormech is the ability to work with hard metals, alloys and synthetic materials to construct armor for non-force users. Vendor-purchase fluxes are used during the armor creation process to refine the materials to ensure suitability. Armormechs can reverse engineer theirrafted armor and possibly discover new way to improve armor creation. The gathering skil Scavenging provides crafting resources for Armormech.

(My Notes)
-Create non-force user armor.
-Requires purchased flux from vendor (money sink?)
-Can reverse engineer to possibly discover new crafting recipes. (?)
--Note: Seems to suggest that you can only reverse engineer crafted items.

*Scavenging provides material for this spec.
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ARMSTECH- CREATE/LEARN

Armstech is the ability to work with hard metals, alloys and synthetic materials to craft blasters and blaster modifications. Vendor-purchased fluxes are used during the blaster creation process to refine the materials to ensure suitability. Crafted blasters include blaster pistols, blaster rifles, sniper ifles and assault cannons. Blaster modifications include scopes, barrels and triggers. Armstechs can reverse engineer their crafted blasters and possibly discoer new ways to improve blaster creation. Te gathering skill Scavenging provides crafting resources for Armstech.

(My Notes)
-Create non-force weapons and non-force weapon modifications.
-Requires purchased flux from vendor (money sink?)
-Can reverse engineer to possibly discover new crafting recipes.(?)
--Note: Seems to suggest that you can only reverse engineer crafted items.

*Scavenging provides material for this spec.
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CYBERTECH - CREATE/LEARN

Cybertech is the skill to assemble droid armor, earpieces, grenades, armor overlays and underlays, electro weapons, generators, and feet and wrist items for non-force users. Armor overlays and underlays provide additional armor ptrotection and augment combat ability. Earpieces are external mini-computers that are worn on or near the ear They enhance combat prowess by giving audio and vidual feedback to the wearer or through direct neural feedback via an external nerve relay. Cybertechs can reverse engineer their crafted droid, feet and wrist armor, earpieces, electro weapons, and generators, and possibly discover new ways to improve their creation. The gathering skill scavenging provides crafting resources for cybertech.

(My Notes)
-Create non-force misc equipment.s.
+As opposed to Jedi, non-force characters seem to get many of their attributes from miscellaneous equipment.

Examples:
++Armor Overlay(s)/Underlay(s) (DEF?)
++Earpieces- Enhance combat prowess. (STR,DEX..?)

Some misc equipment may be specific to non-force user jobs:
Droids, Grenades -- Imperial Agent
Generator, Electro Weapons -- Bounty Hunter

-Can reverse engineer misc equipment and droids to possibly discover new crafting recipes.(?)
--Note: Seems to suggest that you can only reverse engineer crafted items.

*Scavenging provides material for this spec.
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SCAVENGING - GATHER

Scavenging is the art of salvaging useful parts and base materials such as metals, alloys and synthetic compounds from potential resources-junk piles, fallen droids, abandoned cargo, and broken-down vehicles. The crafting skills Armormech, Armstech, and Cybertech utilize scavenging Resources. Scavengers can send their companions on missions to gather resources.

(My Notes)
-Gather material for Armormech, Armstech, and Cybertech.
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[Kwijiboe]

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Additional Specializations
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BIOANALYSIS - LEARN/GATHER

Bioanalysis is the practice of collecting genetic material from creatures and vegetation. Genetic materials include cell fibers, bacterial strains, toxic extracts and medicinal fluids. Biochemists use these materials to create medpacs to restore health, stimulants (single-use injections) that provide a boost to physical abilities, and biological implants that enhance combat prowess by stimulating neural networks and regulating brain stem functions. The crafting skill Biochem utilizes Bioanalysis resoruces. Bioanalysts can send their companions on missions to gather resources.

(My Notes)
-Finds crafting recipes and/or material for:
+Biochemists
++Biochemists can create medpacs, stimulants and biological implants.
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BIOCHEM - CREATE/LEARN

Biochem is the skill involved in crafting medical supplies, performance-enhancing chemical serums and biological implants. Biochemists can create medpacs to restore health, stimulants (single-use injections) that provide a boost to physical abilities, and biological implants that enhance combat prowess by stimularting neural networks and regulating brain stem functions. Biochemists can reverse engineer their crafted implants and possibly discover new ways to improve implant creation. The gathering skill Bioanalysis provides crafting resources for Biochem.

(My Notes)
-Create medical supplies, performance enhancing stimulants and implants.
-Can reverse engineer to possibly discover new crafting recipes.
--Note: Seems to suggest that you can only reverse engineer crafted items.
*Bioanalysis provides material for this spec.
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TREASURE HUNTING - COMPANION GIFTS/GATHER MISC MATERIAL FOR ALL CLASSES

Treasure Hunting is the ability to track down and recover valuable items by following a series of clues. Companions sent on treasure hunting missions can return with rare gemstones used to construct prototype and artifact earpieces, focii, blasters and electro weapons, lockboxes that can contain valuable items or credits, and gits for companions to raise their Affection rating.

(My Notes)
+Possible gifts for companions to raise their Affection.
+Possible to find rare items or credits.

-Gather material for crafting misc equipment for both non-force users and force users.
+Misc Equipment is crafted by Cybertech and Artifice spec.
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SLICING - JACK OF ALL TRADES/GAMBLE

Slicing is the art of accessing secure computer sustems and lockboxes to acquire valuable items, credits, and tech materials. Common slicing targets include electronc safes, data stations, security mainfraims and biometric footlockers. They contain lockboxes that can yield valuable items, credits, rare tech materials used to construct prototype and artifact droid armor and generators, and mission discovery objects that unlock challenging missions that can potentially yield great rewards. Slicers can send their companions on missions to retrieve these valuable items.

(My Notes)
-Break into safes. (Steal Credits)
-Break into data staions. (Find rare crafting recipes for all crafts)
-Break into security mainframes. (Unlock challenging missions)
-Break into biometric footlockers. (Find Rare materials for all crafts)

+This ablity seems like a jack of all trades for gathering. Almost a gamble. Enough for everything, but not

enough focus in gathering one type of material/recipe. As a bonus, can unlock missions and earn extra Credits.
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[Kwijiboe]

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RARE ARMOR MATERIAL GATHERING SPECIALIZATIONS
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DIPLOMACY - DARK/LIGHT SIDE ADJUSTMENT/COMPANION GIFTS/***GATHER RARE LIGHT ARMOR MATERIAL--ALL CLASSES***

Diplomacy is the art of conducting and managing negotiations. Sending your companions on diplomatic missions can influence your light side or dark side standing. In addition to light side and dark side influence, possible Diplomacy rewards include rare light armor crafting materials used to construct prototype and artifact light armor, and gifts for companions to raise their Affection rating. **This is a very unique skill. This skill is probably best suited for those who wish to discover all aspects of the game without creating a brand new character. For example, you can play both light side and dark side using this skill.

(My Notes)
+Earn additional light side and dark side.
++Could be useful if you wish to alter your light side and dark side points.
+Possible gifts for companions to raise their Affection.

-Possible to find rare LIGHT armor crafting materials used to construct both force and non-force armor. (Maybe very small chance?)
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INVESTIGATION - COMPANION GIFTS/GATHER RARE RECIPES FOR ALL CRAFTS/***GATHER RARE MEDIUM ARMOR MATERIAL--ALL

CLASSES***

Investigation is the skill of researching, gathering, analyzing and decoding secret information. Sending your companions on Investigation missions can yield valuable items in the form of rare medium armor crafting materials used to construct prototype and artifact medium armor, prototype schematics for all crafts, and gifts for companions to raise their Affection rating.

(My Notes)
+Possible gifts for companions to raise their Affection.

-Possible to find rare crafting recipes for all crafts. (Maybe very small chance?)

-Possible to find rare MEDIUM armor crafting materials used to construct both force and non-force armor. (Maybe very small chance?)

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UNDERWORLD TRADING - COMPANION GIFTS/GATHER RARE RECIPES FOR MISC EQUIP/***GATHER RARE HEAVY ARMOR MATERIAL--ALL

CLASSES***

Underworld trading entails the exhange of goods and services on the galactic black market. Sending your companions on Underworld Trading misions can yield rare spices used to construct prototype and artifact implants, rare heavy armor crafting materials used to construct prototype and artifact droid and heavy armor, and gifts for companions to raise their affection rating.

(My Notes)
-Gather rare material for non-force user and force user misc equipment.
-Gather rare material for biochemists.
-Gather material for droids.

-Possible to find rare HEAVY armor crafting materials used to construct both force and non-force armor. (Maybe very small chance?)

[Kwijiboe]

You can assign up to 3 companions to one specialization each
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You can only have 1 crafting skill set at a time.
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So the setup will basically be. Have one character crafting, have one out gathering materials, and have a last one going on missions.

TO put things simple, pick one from each group. (or a combination of 2 Bs or 2Cs)

Group A: Crafting

Armormech
Artifice
Biochem
Cybertech
Synthweaving
Armstech

Group B: Gathering

Bioanalysis
Archaeology
Scavenging

Group C: Missions

Diplomacy
Underworld Trading
Investigation
Slicing
Treasure Hunting

[Kuishen]

After only one night of playing the game, I can say that it will definitely keep me occupied. Yes the combat is boring to me because it seems like I'm just mashing buttons but I've never liked the new MMO combat systems in the first place, but it's not so ridiculously boring that it will keep me from playing. The story however is enough to keep me playing, and if you throw in a really good crafting system and space combat then the game will succeed.

/shrug

[vrumpt]

Side note: Diplomacy, Investigation, Treasure Hunting, and Underworld Trading are all mission skills that are exclusive to the crew skill system. I don't believe you can ever take one of these as one of your 3 main professions.

[Katlan]

After only one night of playing the game, I can say that it will definitely keep me occupied. Yes the combat is boring to me because it seems like I'm just mashing buttons but I've never liked the new MMO combat systems in the first place, but it's not so ridiculously boring that it will keep me from playing. The story however is enough to keep me playing, and if you throw in a really good crafting system and space combat then the game will succeed.

/shrug

There is no crafting system. You basically tell your npc to do X, Y, or X and they go poof for a set amount of real world time (takes longer for higher level tasks) and come back w/ items, ect... If the thing your asking them to do requires items to make something, id assume they will get consumed from your inventory

[Man0warr]

Essentially, a post-WoW MMO has to overcome the stigma of WoW. There were MMOs prior to WoW, of course, but their subscription bases were comparably small, exposing far less of the gaming population to the genre. With far more people having first or second-hand MMO experience, the willingness to jump could well decrease based on that prior experience.

The most successful pre-WoW MMOs were EQ and FFXI, both had one thing in common: difficulty/tedium. It made your character, items, and dying feel more important and worthwhile.

WoW's is basically EQ's concept (all the big name developers at Blizzard were Uber guild leaders in EQ - Furor, Tigole, etc) with the tedium and difficulty slowly removed patch by patch and made the game more and more casual. When it first came out, all of us EQ players loved it because we had been slogging through EQ for years. But EQ was fun and had meaning, your gear wasn't rendered worthless after every expansion.

It's come full circle: some of the biggest complaints about WoW these days are how easy it is to get to max level and get the best gear. Your character and it's gear have no value, no one has any attachment to anything in WoW. The last expansion I hit max level, got the best heroic gear, and then promptly quit because I knew the next expansion would reset everything again, and couldn't find the motivation to upgrade my character any further.

That is the challenge for the future. Find some happy medium between EQ/FFXI and WoW.

I'm not sure if it's totally worth it, at best EQ and FFXI had 500k subs each, the majority of guilds used to raid 6-7 days a week back then, but those types of players are a minority these days. If making a casual game makes them more money then that's what companies will continue to do.

[Daemonxel]

After only one night of playing the game, I can say that it will definitely keep me occupied. Yes the combat is boring to me because it seems like I'm just mashing buttons but I've never liked the new MMO combat systems in the first place, but it's not so ridiculously boring that it will keep me from playing. The story however is enough to keep me playing, and if you throw in a really good crafting system and space combat then the game will succeed.

/shrug

The devs said that later on in a future patch they will be adding Guild ships/capitol ships..

I think if they added an element from EVE online it would make this perfect...guild sovereign and massive space pvp. However they would have to do away with the whole space fight on rails.

[fantasticdan]

Side note: Diplomacy, Investigation, Treasure Hunting, and Underworld Trading are all mission skills that are exclusive to the crew skill system. I don't believe you can ever take one of these as one of your 3 main professions.

What? Mission skills take up a profession slot like anything else. The only professions you can do anything with personally are the gathering ones.

[Isiolia]

That is the challenge for the future. Find some happy medium between EQ/FFXI and WoW.

I'm not sure if it's totally worth it, at best EQ and FFXI had 500k subs each, the majority of guilds used to raid 6-7 days a week back then, but those types of players are a minority these days. If making a casual game makes them more money then that's what companies will continue to do.

It's not so much the hardcore/casual angle that I was looking at. I agree, it's true - but mostly for those who are happily absorbed in the game.

What I had more in mind was the compulsive time suck that MMOs tend to be. As in, I played FFXI from release until the server outage. Worked in LS events n' all into my weekly schedule for years. Knowing what an MMO can turn into, I'm much more leery about jumping into another. You see comments like that often regarding WoW - people glad to quit because, essentially, the mechanics employed to keep them playing and paying worked. When they finally got out, reclaimed free time, etc, they were happy to have done so.

It's like saying you're going to make new less addicting, not as bad for you cigarettes or something. You might catch the eye of current addicts, but people who successfully quit smoking prior might think twice.