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  1. #121
    Relic Horn
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    Meh, i'm typically one to expect the worst so i never get disappointed. Pretty much just hoping the don't fuck this up. It's not possible for this game to be as shallow as say Aion, so i'm expecting depth. Until i see some group oriented content vids, i'll keep myself reserved.

  2. #122
    Ridill
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    Has there even been any news about beta? Or is it just a F&F Alpha? Game completely went under my radar as of late... no new info, and only announcement was that it wont be out until 2011

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katlan View Post
    [[removed]]
    wow, talk about a setback... always thought it was intended for an '10 release. Guess this means FFXIV will have free reign for its launch
    Yeah it looks like 14 going to be just as close to Cata as Warhammer was to LK, which got WH just completely owned in the face.

    They're probably doing the smart thing by pushing it back even if it wasn't necessary, right now an MMO coming in the period 6-8 months after a WoW expansion, when everyone's getting bored/burned out on WoW, should have the best chance.

  4. #124
    Relic Horn
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    It was always set for a Spring '11 release as far as i can remember, which is a good thing because i want some time in FFXIV.

  5. #125
    New Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plow View Post
    Yeah it looks like 14 going to be just as close to Cata as Warhammer was to LK, which got WH just completely owned in the face.

    They're probably doing the smart thing by pushing it back even if it wasn't necessary, right now an MMO coming in the period 6-8 months after a WoW expansion, when everyone's getting bored/burned out on WoW, should have the best chance.
    I thought Warhammer got owned because it just sucked?

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyan View Post
    I thought Warhammer got owned because it just sucked?
    its better to push the blame onto WoW, looks better for them.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    Eh, I'm not hyped at all for this game. They talk a lot of gumbo about how they're going to revolutionize the MMO world and talk a lot of shit on other MMO companies. They remind me of Mythic and Warhammer when it was in development.

    We all know how that turned out.
    this x10

    Their gameplay footage hasn't exactly been spectacular, unless you enjoy playing with 10 fps.

    Honestly though, with Bioware games the cycle usually involves them showing off the game early with a cocky attitude, me getting angry at said cocky attitude and flaming about Bioware talking smack early, and then come release i forget they had even said anything of the sort because the game is so awesome.

    i'll keep my eyes on it through beta i guess.

  8. #128
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyan View Post
    I thought Warhammer got owned because it just sucked?
    WH wasn't that bad at all, by far the worst thing about it was that I couldn't get people to come try it because of LK.

    At this point almost the entirety of mmo players play WoW, trying to compete with its expansions timewise is a recipe for disaster.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plow View Post
    WH wasn't that bad at all, by far the worst thing about it was that I couldn't get people to come try it because of LK.

    At this point almost the entirety of mmo players play WoW, trying to compete with its expansions timewise is a recipe for disaster.
    To be fair, WH was pretty bad. Started it on EU release day with my brother, it was so full of bugs I either crashed or got stuck somewhere every hour or so. It was like playing beta, only one you had to pay for.
    The PvP (or RvR or whatever they were called) battlegrounds were pretty fun, but class balance was pretty bad and I got frustrated pretty quick. There was one thing about WH that I wish every MMO Dev out there would copy; the public quests.

  10. #130
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    I've also heard that it was too close to WoW in terms of gameplay mechanics, and not close enough to DAoC, so of course if the two compete against each other the bigger (and better) would win. Seems that the public quests weren't unique enough to keep the players interested (and I hear those mechanics had some huge issues as well?).

    That said, it would indeed be wise for Bioware to "delay" the release until after Cataclysm has been out for a while. It doesn't look that different to WoW in terms of gameplay, to be honest...

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyan View Post
    I've also heard that it was too close to WoW in terms of gameplay mechanics, and not close enough to DAoC, so of course if the two compete against each other the bigger (and better) would win. Seems that the public quests weren't unique enough to keep the players interested (and I hear those mechanics had some huge issues as well?).

    That said, it would indeed be wise for Bioware to "delay" the release until after Cataclysm has been out for a while. It doesn't look that different to WoW in terms of gameplay, to be honest...
    Well, from what I've gathered from all the videos and interviews, SW:TOR isn't the same kind of carbon copy of WoW as most of the other MMOs in the market. Even though the combat system does look similar to WoW (and to be fair, probably is) the game's focus is in storytelling. Cutscenes give you multiple options on how to deal with a situation (dialogue options), and if you are doing the quest with a friend, both players have change to affect the outcome of the quest based on their class (Bounty Hunter, Jedi etc). This is what I meant when I said that the game will probably have rather poor amount of group content, when most of the development time goes to making storyline quests, which I imagine will take up most of the playtime. The problem with that is that storyline quests probably have little to no replayability.

  12. #132
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    I'm sure TOR will have new features that make it differ from WoW in a variety of ways, but the core problem still exists however- if the gameplay is similar, story or voiceovers will probably not save the game in the long term. Especially in the case of MMO's, which are played for years in the best case, story content is the worst kind of lasting content you can make for the development effort. If they base their whole game around storyline, it won't take long for most of the players to be done with the game, and I doubt Bioware can keep pumping out story faster than players clear it...

    It does work for some single player games, but those are meant to be played through in 5-50 hours, not in few months~years.

    And when you're done with the story, there's one thing left- gameplay. And if the gameplay (combat for the most part, let's be honest here) is similar to WoW, the game will probably face the same fate as WH- much slower one though, since there's no expansions to be released anytime soon. Hopefully that will give the developers enough time to get as close to WoW as possible in terms of polish and content, and it might stand a chance.

    I think the 2 million subs EA is aiming for sounds like an utopia though, no matter what happens. I bet that many people will buy the game, but won't stay subscribed for long.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyan View Post
    I'm sure TOR will have new features that make it differ from WoW in a variety of ways, but the core problem still exists however- if the gameplay is similar, story or voiceovers will probably not save the game in the long term. Especially in the case of MMO's, which are played for years in the best case, story content is the worst kind of lasting content you can make for the development effort. If they base their whole game around storyline, it won't take long for most of the players to be done with the game, and I doubt Bioware can keep pumping out story faster than players clear it...
    Yeah, that was kinda the point I was trying to make; most players will probably finish the meat of the game, which is the storyline, in the first free month and have absolutely no reason to to pay the monthly fee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyan View Post
    It does work for some single player games, but those are meant to be played through in 5-50 hours, not in few months~years.

    And when you're done with the story, there's one thing left- gameplay. And if the gameplay (combat for the most part, let's be honest here) is similar to WoW, the game will probably face the same fate as WH- much slower one though, since there's no expansions to be released anytime soon. Hopefully that will give the developers enough time to get as close to WoW as possible in terms of polish and content, and it might stand a chance.

    I think the 2 million subs EA is aiming for sounds like an utopia though, no matter what happens. I bet that many people will buy the game, but won't stay subscribed for long.
    The game could easily get over 2 million players during the launch (Bioware fans + people just wanting to check out the new MMO), but most of them won't be playing past the first free month if the game doesn't offer group content. So, SW:TOR might end up being a single player experience for most people.

  14. #134
    New Odin
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    Hmm, I think the game might be received better if it was some sort of co-op online game rather than full MMO experience. A bit like PSO/U maybe.

    Although from the sound of it it will be something like that. However, the overall impression I get is that they're still trying to make it an MMO which feels like a waste of resources which could be used to make it even more like an ORPG. So, basically what you said on the last page will probably happen.

  15. #135
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    Well that's sort of the problem with the direction they're going. Star Wars fans don't want a game, they want a world to explore and be part of. Bioware fans i'm sure will enjoy the story aspect but also blow through it, unless there are road blocks to prevent that from happening.

    As of now, space travel won't be part of release, which would be something to look forward to later on. You never know though, they may have it in time, but it sounds like a monumental task.

    I also have no doubts they'll sell 2mil boxes if not more, but it's where the game is 3-6 months after that concerns me.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plow View Post
    WH wasn't that bad at all, by far the worst thing about it was that I couldn't get people to come try it because of LK.
    WH was pretty horrible. Couldn't do pvp because game would crash out. Fort rewards were based on purely RNG (and who got disconnected the least). Couldn't go back to do lowbie content... lets not even get into how achievements / ect... were locked to certain zones that once you out lv'd u were SoL. PvE was mind numbingly boring w/ it taking minutes to kill mobs (solo) in T4 areas. Animation wasn't smooth.. And they committed the biggest mistake an mmo company could, by getting excited over launch figures and thus opening new servers that only ended up spreading the population too thin.

    /offtopic rant off

    How are ppl saying the game looks like a WoW clone alrdy? When nobody has even had a chance to touch the game. The term "WoW clone" should be shot from ppl's vocabulary... and im floored none have called XIV a wow clone yet

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katlan View Post
    How are ppl saying the game looks like a WoW clone alrdy? When nobody has even had a chance to touch the game. The term "WoW clone" should be shot from ppl's vocabulary... and im floored none have called XIV a wow clone yet
    Sometimes it's just apparent.

    It all depends how big of a step the game takes from WoW. XIV has some significant differences, while in TOR, as far as I know, you can take cover behind objects.

    It has to do more than that to not be considered WoW clone. Gimmicks aren't enough.

    And I am strictly talking from a gameplay perspective. Too bad that's what usually matters the most though.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katlan View Post
    WH was pretty horrible. Couldn't do pvp because game would crash out. Fort rewards were based on purely RNG (and who got disconnected the least). Couldn't go back to do lowbie content... lets not even get into how achievements / ect... were locked to certain zones that once you out lv'd u were SoL. PvE was mind numbingly boring w/ it taking minutes to kill mobs (solo) in T4 areas. Animation wasn't smooth.. And they committed the biggest mistake an mmo company could, by getting excited over launch figures and thus opening new servers that only ended up spreading the population too thin.

    /offtopic rant off

    How are ppl saying the game looks like a WoW clone alrdy? When nobody has even had a chance to touch the game. The term "WoW clone" should be shot from ppl's vocabulary... and im floored none have called XIV a wow clone yet
    A game can "look" like a WoW clone without you playing it. Just LOOK at it. Look at the freakin' game. The graphical style is cartoony (if you wish to call WoW's style cartoony - games like Mortal Online are at the opposite end of the spectrum: just as ugly, yet focused on realism instead of "cartoony), the colors are bright and vibrant, so as to take away from the fact that the character models are low-grade; it's not a twitch-based game, the movement and gameplay (from the vids presented) look nothing like a realistic-based game.

    There are realistic styles and unrealistic styles when art direction is concerned. As I said above, you have the WoWs on one side, the Mortal Onlines on the other side, and most other MMOs falling somewhere in the middle. These games are not graphical powerhouses - most of them look like their PC engines were built in the late 90's and early 2000's, and it shows. This Star Wars game is not easy on the eyes, in terms of pure graphical power.

    Games like FFXIV, Age of Conan, and, to some extent, even LoTR:O, are built with expansive graphics engines. It doesn't always translate into a pretty game, because typically, the "better looking" the graphics, the worse the attack and movement animations turn out. Just look at the running and shooting animation in Fallout 3 - god awful.

    Star Wars looks more like a WoW clone than some AoC clone, meaning that the graphical style is simplistic, the game world colorful (colorful doesn't equal cheerful - even WoW had some pretty colorful, yet depressing areas), and the animations more than likely hand-animated instead of choreographed, which typically looks better than choreographed animations, which are usually choppy as fuck, flat, and very uninspired. I cite Fallout as a perfect example of why realistic-looking games aren't always great - real, average people fight boring.

    Edit: Low grade graphics are low grade graphics. Mortal online's models look ugly as fuck, so having a "realistic" style doesn't necessarily mean attractive or jaw-dropping. FFXIV is pretty realistic with the typical Square Enix flair that we've seen in most all of their flagship games, but I even have problems with some of the stock animations already (not the beautiful and smooth canned /emote animations, but the everyday, default animations - they look lifeless and awkward).

  19. #139
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    I've always thought that Asians, generally, make the best looking visuals. Gameplay is a different beast altogether, but when it comes to animations, graphic style (and maybe music), there's no beating them.

    I always found games like Mass Effect or NWN to have quite bland visuals. I'd say Oblivion's graphic style appeals to me the best, but the animations and characters look ugly.

    On the other hand, Korean graphic style is so overdone with their "epic" art style, wo/men with perfect proportions and so on that it makes it almost just as bland, just on the other side of the spectrum.

    Maybe it's just my preferences, I dunno. Some western games do have great visuals, but it's just never as good as it could be imo.

  20. #140

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyan View Post
    I've always thought that Asians, generally, make the best looking visuals. Gameplay is a different beast altogether, but when it comes to animations, graphic style (and maybe music), there's no beating them.

    I always found games like Mass Effect or NWN to have quite bland visuals. I'd say Oblivion's graphic style appeals to me the best, but the animations and characters look ugly.

    On the other hand, Korean graphic style is so overdone with their "epic" art style, wo/men with perfect proportions and so on that it makes it almost just as bland, just on the other side of the spectrum.

    Maybe it's just my preferences, I dunno. Some western games do have great visuals, but it's just never as good as it could be imo.
    I agree completely, biowares aliens might look decent but their human models are disgusting looking, and its not just biowares but WoW and WAR are inferior to say ffxi or aion graphically.
    Ill give this game a shot because bioware does usually hit hard in the story department, but their gameplay/graphics are usually lackluster.

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