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  1. #21
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plow View Post
    A. CS was on the GCD for like a week literally, they changed it back soooo fast.


    B. Mages have probably been the most well balanced class through the entirety of TBC, they've never been massively overpowered in any build, and they've always had extremely good builds in every bracket.


    edit: watch some Bamo, he was amazing, this is all season 1 against people like Glorin, Spoh, etc. He made #1 in 2's and 3's with mage priest and mage war pally.

    Bamodus Mage Arena PvP By Chunga
    Season 1 is the key there, no resilience, very little geared people = easy blown up targets. The first fight in the video is against warrior/shaman lol? Mage vs warrior, and a terrible warrior at that. Also before the frost nova nerf it looks like too. Oh, warrior/pally, man, so hard to kite that /sarcasm

    Mages have been on the short end of the DPS stick for the top end of raiding, particularly with bad scaling/mana issues, seeing especially the decline in mages in raids. Mages being brought for food vending for the whole raid, then not allowed to fight the bosses, except when they needed heavy CC or mage tank. Or seeing that the raid has to be stacked in the mage's favor so they can compete with locks/hunters. Locks and Hunters bring quite a bit more utility than the mage does to the raid other than food/water/sheep.

    Mages aren't synergistic with other classes, and depend too much to do competitive dps for the amount of utility they bring to the raid for TBC.

    In fact, to even be competitive (top 5 DPS) you'd have to stack DPS in the favor of the mage by giving them CoE (at the time was seperate from CoS) That requires one lock to lose part of their DPS, or give up another curse for the mage instead of benefiting the rest of the raid, we also required a shadowpriest, as well as a shaman, and quite often a boomkin, if not a second shadowpriest in our group. We're finally seeing at the end of TBC fixes that should have occurred long before BT/Hyjal were implemented.

    Raids would rather bring a lock who could survive longer pick up more spell damage, didn't need to be pampered or rely on gimmics and complete perfection on cooldown management, and had better coefficients to boot on shadowbolt.

    But that's just me, and the consensus of many top teir raiders as seen on wowinsider/other wow oriented sites , they'd rather not bring a mage to SW/BT/Hyjal (Although need mages for trash on hyjal), and just stack locks/rogues/hunters.

    I didn't roll a mage to CC/Food Vend. I rolled a mage to blow shit up, and we're headed back to that mantra, yes there are problems, but we need to be moved back to glass cannon, rather than glass pea shooter from TBC.

    pom -> hide somewhere -> fireball+ barrage same time someone, probably 60-90% their hp, fireblast dead... hide somewhere till 2min timer up repeat. Drink between kills, think I use like 3K mana in the 3-5 seconds to massacre someone
    Doesn't work like that in arenas, BG's don't count in balancing anymore.

  2. #22
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korietsu View Post
    Season 1 is the key there, no resilience, very little geared people = easy blown up targets. The first fight in the video is against warrior/shaman lol? Mage vs warrior, and a terrible warrior at that.

    LOL dude that first fight is Glorin and Joeboe. Their gear outclassed Bamo's by miles, not to mention the fact that they're amazing players. (one of the only groups out there I don't have a winning record against, due pretty much entirely to their gear)

    He looks bad because bamo and advantage are soooooooooo damn good.


    And season 1 might have = low resil bad gear where you were playing, but I assure you the #1 teams in the BG that contained at the time Glorin, Spoh, Minti, Neilyo, etc were not playing against people with bullshit gear. I know, I was there (not #1, but top 10, and at one point with winning records against everyone above us including the #1 team at the time which was spriest/lock when I had no SR).


    Also before the frost nova nerf it looks like too. Oh, warrior/pally, man, so hard to kite that /sarcasm
    Some of it is right at the end of S1, some of it is early S2. Not sure when the nova nerf was, but pretty sure it was before this footage.

    Did you not catch the point of the warrior pally match? It was not to show how amazing they are, it was showing what a complete joke war/pally was against mage teams (hence the zoom-in on the 5+ cleanses without getting poly off). It was flat out not possible to beat them with war/pally without one of them disconnecting or something, that was a statement on how ridiculous it was that people cried so much about them. (hell I lost to 1 pally ever after getting 1900 as lock/pally and finally respeccing holy, and he wasn't even with a warrior)


    Watch the whole video. If you actually pay close attention to high end pvp, you'll recognize major players on the worldwide scene in almost every fight. Of course, "warrior/shaman lol?" tells us that you don't, but that's another story.


    Anyway, point is mages have never been underpowered in pvp, period. I could care less about raid dps.



    edit: Oh and btw, you have nothing to worry about, Kalgan is playing a mage now, all your dreams will come true.

  3. #23
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plow View Post
    LOL dude that first fight is Glorin and Joeboe. Their gear outclassed Bamo's by miles, not to mention the fact that they're amazing players. (one of the only groups out there I don't have a winning record against, due pretty much entirely to their gear)

    He looks bad because bamo and advantage are soooooooooo damn good.


    And season 1 might have = low resil bad gear where you were playing, but I assure you the #1 teams in the BG that contained at the time Glorin, Spoh, Minti, Neilyo, etc were not playing against people with bullshit gear. I know, I was there (not #1, but top 10, and at one point with winning records against everyone above us including the #1 team at the time which was spriest/lock when I had no SR).




    Some of it is right at the end of S1, some of it is early S2. Not sure when the nova nerf was, but pretty sure it was before this footage.

    Did you not catch the point of the warrior pally match? It was not to show how amazing they are, it was showing what a complete joke war/pally was against mage teams (hence the zoom-in on the 5+ cleanses without getting poly off). It was flat out not possible to beat them with war/pally without one of them disconnecting or something, that was a statement on how ridiculous it was that people cried so much about them. (hell I lost to 1 pally ever after getting 1900 as lock/pally and finally respeccing holy, and he wasn't even with a warrior)


    Watch the whole video. If you actually pay close attention to high end pvp, you'll recognize major players on the worldwide scene in almost every fight. Of course, "warrior/shaman lol?" tells us that you don't, but that's another story.


    Anyway, point is mages have never been underpowered in pvp, period. I could care less about raid dps.



    edit: Oh and btw, you have nothing to worry about, Kalgan is playing a mage now, all your dreams will come true.
    I've heard of one player out of the ones you listed, and that was Neilyo. Also, kalgan lol? Fuck him, he's the one that put us in the shitty position in the first place. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    I'm sorry but looking at that compared to what I've played/watched, I'm sorry, its just not that spectacular. Its the same classes we've been beating down for god knows how long. I watched the video, and really, the warrior is hurr durr, im rooted, saw no spell reflects, saw I think no trinkets? No shatter from the mage at all, and triple ice lance on FN = pre nerf lol. However, I do like the CC/Manaburn healer going on with the two of them, really nothing spectacular imo in the first fight. But that's personal opinion.

    How about some Saru and Tharbad? WarcraftMovies.com - World of Warcraft Movies
    Obviously pally/warrior or war/druid gets boring but these two guys are good for actually getting their team up to 2200 running double mage.

    I would say affix, but obviously, cliche.

    Vilden - mage/rogue where we have the standard gib going with S3 pigenhole 2v2. WarcraftMovies.com - World of Warcraft Movies Has three vidoes, im sure you can find them.

    If you look at the comps required to play the class and maintain a good rating, and at the time, the abysmally low arena representation (as low as shaman/hunter at the end of S2 through the end of S3), it was clear we had problems.

  4. #24
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korietsu View Post
    I've heard of one player out of the ones you listed, and that was Neilyo.
    That's just sad.

    But, one day we finally found a mage for our 5's, unfortunately he was transferring and we weren't able to convince him to stay, so we only got one day with him. We did run into Neilyo on a team that was top 5 tho:

    http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...lulzthatis.jpg

    That team was always just to get people points and sat in like 1700's, the day Babba played with us was the only time we got above 1800 for more than a couple games.

    Neilyo was actually at the lower end of the "high end" when he was in my battlegroup, he never got first in any bracket, I played him a *lot* and never lost to him. Famous for his videos only then, he's gotten a lot better now.

    Spoh is... kind of a big deal. I'm really amazed you don't know of him, you can't be paying much attention to not know of him. Glorin isn't as big, but has dominated bg9 and been competitive in a bunch of tourneys. Used to play him all the damn time, but he had full t4 + full blue honor set + amazing luck with heroic drops going into S1, I hit 1900 as prot in greens. Don't think we ever beat him in 2's though it was always close, but his turtle team in 3's dominated us ><

    Also, kalgan lol? Fuck him, he's the one that put us in the shitty position in the first place. Two wrongs don't make a right.
    ...

    That's even sadder.


    I'm sorry but looking at that compared to what I've played/watched, I'm sorry, its just not that spectacular. Its the same classes we've been beating down for god knows how long. I watched the video, and really, the warrior is hurr durr, im rooted, saw no spell reflects, saw I think no trinkets? No shatter from the mage at all, and triple ice lance on FN = pre nerf lol. However, I do like the CC/Manaburn healer going on with the two of them, really nothing spectacular imo in the first fight. But that's personal opinion.
    You're just failing to realize how ridiculous the opposition really is. The team shown in 2 different 3's vids (with 2 different comps) is guys that were #1 across all 3 brackets for the vast majority of the time before they transferred.

    I'm fairly certain every single match in that video has someone that's been #1 in Bloodlust.

    How about some Saru and Tharbad? WarcraftMovies.com - World of Warcraft Movies
    Obviously pally/warrior or war/druid gets boring but these two guys are good for actually getting their team up to 2200 running double mage.

    I would say affix, but obviously, cliche.

    Vilden - mage/rogue where we have the standard gib going with S3 pigenhole 2v2. WarcraftMovies.com - World of Warcraft Movies Has three vidoes, im sure you can find them.

    If you look at the comps required to play the class and maintain a good rating, and at the time, the abysmally low arena representation (as low as shaman/hunter at the end of S2 through the end of S3), it was clear we had problems.
    Heidiheinken - Highest Destrolock By mofogie


    My warlock parter's 5's video made after I quit with a paladin that's good but not great, ar/prep rogue, frost mage, elem shaman, and destro lock.

    same team, pally vid: Felstriker 3: Lolpaladin (2380 gladiator) By Felstriker

    2386 peak rating, in 5's.

    Mages fit in so many spots, and do so many things so well, seriously crying about mages being bad in pvp is like saying warriors are weak in pve.


    oh btw, the mage and rogue in the 5's videos were #1 in some bg season 1 as mage/rogue, don't remember which, they transferred to my server

  5. #25
    Relic Horn
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    I guess its either that I haven't played against those players competitively, or haven't seen them in any tournaments or heard of them by word of mouth. Mages off the top of my head: Affix, Everatras (good videos, not so good pvp), Pigvomit, otherguy, vilden, Hondous?, Lhivera (known for theorycraft/PvE), the mage off of the Korean RMP that lost to pandemic I think it was, name of both teams escape me at the moment.

    Rogues: Neilyo, Isolee; we had the highest numerical ranked hunter at 2700 something in our BG running hunter druid, but they transferred off to BG9, and I heard nothing of them again. Of course, being gone for the length of a season would pose problems for me and my perspective, however S2/S3 were a pain in the fucking ass.

    I will admit, at the top end mages are going to be better quality players, where as in the middle you would have seen quite a fair bit of mages struggling at the end of S3 because of the insurmountable learning curve at the top end. All that was available for me to run and actually synergise without a massive amount of overhaul to the group was Eurocomp/RMP/Magex2 or Mage/Rogue. But its the length of my experience within my battlegroup and what I've seen running mages during those two seasons.

  6. #26
    Ridill
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    The mage (and rogue) in the 5's vids is a God, you should watch them.

  7. #27
    TOO MUCH MAN
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    Most of the mages in my guild did fine DPS, around 2000-2300 most of the time provided they had a shadow priest (we rarely had ele sham and had a boomkin for about a week), this is when we were mid-hyjal and BT, so don't start talking about hunters and rogues doing 2500 or 3000 DPS. Arcane mages also did not need CoE, fire was not the only raiding spec.

    Mages were also part of the most dominant and common comps in 3s and 5s for a significant amount of time, and still had workable 2s comps.

  8. #28
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    I thought mage/rogue was the top combo for season 4 2's, but I didn't arena seriously (since I'm a paladin I'm not allowed to PvP unless I'm in 5's lulz)

  9. #29
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglestrike View Post
    I thought mage/rogue was the top combo for season 4 2's, but I didn't arena seriously (since I'm a paladin I'm not allowed to PvP unless I'm in 5's lulz)
    yeah, mage/rogue got better and better as the healers got nerfed weakening wars and the rogue dps got better


    other than the very best ones they were pretty crappy early on, they were real real good from s3 on

  10. #30
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    It's very good but other comps are more popular, and more common at high ratings (war/druid lolz). "Better" really depends on the players.

  11. #31
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishido View Post
    It's very good but other comps are more popular, and more common at high ratings (war/druid lolz). "Better" really depends on the players.
    The ironing in that statement is that Mage/Rogue destroys Warrior/Druid. makes no sense lol.

  12. #32
    TOO MUCH MAN
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    Because those teams don't play each other exclusively, and war/dru is more forgiving on errors than 2DPS teams.

  13. #33
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishido View Post
    Because those teams don't play each other exclusively, and war/dru is more forgiving on errors than 2DPS teams.
    rogue/mage, war/druid, and rogue/druid make up like 95% of the top teams in s3/s4

  14. #34
    Relic Horn
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    lock druid too