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  1. #1
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    Apparently GC doesn't have time to actually play WoW.

    MMO-Champion BlueTracker - GC which is it?

    Arcane mages aren't OP and they have no plans to nerf them? Holy shit. I can't think of one class/spec that can beat any decent arcane mage right now. I actually have no idea how any 2 players would beat one. Arcane mages kill me faster than ret ever did and they do it from 36 yards out not in my face, lol.

  2. #2
    Relic Horn
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    They aren't too bad to 1v1 against as Spriest, although I'm out of Shadowform most of the fight. It comes down to how lucky they are with Missile Barrage procs.

    They can wreck non-ranged classes though, especially if they don't have a gap closer. :/

  3. #3
    blax n gunz
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    Roll a DK.

  4. #4
    Mithra Ero-Sensei
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    Arcane barrage by Lv80 hits (naxx geared)

    3000-4000 no crit
    7000-10,000 crit
    pyro 5000-8000 crit

    Considering you get +30% crit when you activate pom, even in full S6 your probably going to take a big hit.

    that and talents reduce this down to 2min.

    They'll probably get nerfed and DK's by Lv 80 as more play it. People slowly going to arcane now for PVP, and the qq is rising.. it'll just rise alot faster once mages hit Lv 80

  5. #5
    Sandpaper Demon
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    I was surprised when I got hit with a couple of arcane barrage crits for like 3~4k the other day, hadn't really seen any arcane mages until that point I suppose

  6. #6
    TOO MUCH MAN
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    Doing Feral/Rogue arenas yesterday were fucking rediculous. Ret isn't nearly as bad as it was before (still ridiculous vs a burst team), but combine that with an arcane mage and you're pretty much dead in under 3 GCDs unless you have bubble or CloS (even that seemed broken at times).

    If it was 1 vs the 2 of us we would dominate it, but add another dangerous DPS and it gets ugly.

  7. #7
    Relic Horn
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    Ravenholdt

    This is the same thing that happened right before BC came out and Kalgan/Player reaction was NERF THE SHIT OUT OF MAGES FUUUUUUUUUUUU insert rage face. Wait till WotLK, and then cry for nerfs.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korietsu View Post
    This is the same thing that happened right before BC came out and Kalgan/Player reaction was NERF THE SHIT OUT OF MAGES FUUUUUUUUUUUU insert rage face. Wait till WotLK, and then cry for nerfs.
    I was in the beta, it seemed very ridiculous there as well (as Gulk pointed out). I actually thought ret was more balanced than arcane at 80, but a lot of that was due to every mage popping all of their cooldowns when they see someone, and blowing them the fuck up.

  9. #9
    Mithra Ero-Sensei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishido View Post
    I was in the beta, it seemed very ridiculous there as well (as Gulk pointed out). I actually thought ret was more balanced than arcane at 80, but a lot of that was due to every mage popping all of their cooldowns when they see someone, and blowing them the fuck up.
    Yeah, ret pally's aren't bad at 80, before the nerfs. Kind of like a joke now probably.. if I ever see one again at lv80 haha

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korietsu View Post
    This is the same thing that happened right before BC came out and Kalgan/Player reaction was NERF THE SHIT OUT OF MAGES FUUUUUUUUUUUU insert rage face. Wait till WotLK, and then cry for nerfs.
    No, I'm crying for nerfs now because my entire class got nerfed because of one spec being OP. They better do the same shit to everyone else who is OP.

  11. #11
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglestrike View Post
    No, I'm crying for nerfs now because my entire class got nerfed because of one spec being OP. They better do the same shit to everyone else who is OP.
    Oh wait. They already did that, TWICE. AP/POM nerfs, Double Trinket Nerf, damage tax, double dipping ignite/fireball crit against resilience (who the hell thought that one out?), ice lance/FN nerfs (although that one was sorta due, I can admit). Mirror Image nerfs, wetpet nerf. In fact, mages are the most nerfed/"looked at class" for changes because of how volatile our nature is.

    Either we're completely fucking broken so that we barely function in our role, or we're gods in one tree and everyone flocks to it. I've been so happy that ret pallies have been buffed, and I was quite disappointed when the nerfs struck that it was base line, and not even towards broken mechanics.

    Sound familiar? Damage Tax anyone? Double Trinket? AP nerfs? Counterspell put on a global cooldown (seriously, wtf was that, something that just affected frost mages? fuck no!)? Haste/AP not stacking anymore because mages have to coordinate all of their cooldowns with every other member of the raid to DPS? Mages coming below hybrid classes for DPS?

    Let me guess, you want slow on DR? Go look at hamstring and come back to me. The fact that almost all of the mage playstyle focuses on casting spells with cast times, where arenas are mobility based? The new arcane tree is the FIRST attempt at a mobile mage that doesn't rely on retarded mechanics / RNG. And guess what, mages will get nerfed because other classes can't stand the clothie not being a free HK anymore. I won't defend arcane saying its not OP at times, because it's truly faceroll and you have to be stupid to fail at it, and I'm a goddamned mage and I believe that. I still play frost because the finesse required makes me a better player.

    But to cry nerf because your class got nerfed is fucking hateful, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Buff other classes, don't nerf me bro!

  12. #12
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    Some of the things you listed affect all classes, some of them multiple classes. Also I haven't really seen anything about CS being on the GCD now, that wouldn't really make sense since they just removed pummel and kick from the GCD with 3.0. Damage tax I would say can go either way. Not sure what was nerfed from AP or PoM, both seem quite potent as they are.

    As for the "clothies not being free HKs," SL/SL locks and frost mages haven't been for quite some time.

    And then finally, I would agree with buffing other classes, but if it is one class out of line it would be far easier to bring them back in line than to adjust 8 other classes (soon to be 9) upward to compensate.

  13. #13
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    I know exactly what you mean and more, I'm a paladin, lol. Ret was even worse off than mages in BC and it was buffed to useful, deemed OP and nerfed to hell. The only truly OP aspect was DS -> kill people. They only insta-killed someone who didn't trinket their stun when their stun was up (1min cooldown at 70...I guess 50s with PvP gear). But without DS they were still completely open to CC, I fear/DoT's a 70 ret paladin from 10k to 4k health as my 63 warlock in EoTS when his bubble was down and somebody ELSE came and killed me to stop me from finishing him off. Just fixing that mechanic would've put ret as less OP than boomkins/arcane mages. But they "fixed" that while also nerfing ret TO THE GROUND BABY, and now paladin needs to be buffed again. Terrible development there.

    Barrage needs a longer cooldown and/or lower damage. Why not make barrage increase the damage of arcane blast by x% and then reduce the barrage damage by y% so it's same overall damage but you can't simply slow/barrage/slow/barrage/slow/barrage any melee in the game and insta-win. It'll still give mage some more mobility, just not burst + mobility at the same time (as a ranged class you shouldn't really be allowed to have both =P at least not on such a short cooldown)

    I do like mages and arcane, my first mage I leveled as arcane. Will probably go back to it eventually (frost is much better for leveling though imo) and it does need an instant spell and the arcane tree has tons of nice tricks. But it shouldn't get constant burst with all the survival/utility it has along with it.

  14. #14
    Mithra Ero-Sensei
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    But its fun to grab the +30% damage buff, sneak up on someone like.. maybe hide at the treestump in middle of WSG and fireball+arcane barrage hit them and probably kill them before they can figure where you are!

    Looks kinda cool flying at you atleast... soorta like... before you die o_O

    Mages always got the option to go frost and go "jump around fingers of frost rape" people. Soon as that rpocs is like... 3000-5000 spam for 3 hits for a spell thats like what 100 mana?

  15. #15
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishido View Post
    Some of the things you listed affect all classes, some of them multiple classes. Also I haven't really seen anything about CS being on the GCD now, that wouldn't really make sense since they just removed pummel and kick from the GCD with 3.0. Damage tax I would say can go either way. Not sure what was nerfed from AP or PoM, both seem quite potent as they are.

    As for the "clothies not being free HKs," SL/SL locks and frost mages haven't been for quite some time.

    And then finally, I would agree with buffing other classes, but if it is one class out of line it would be far easier to bring them back in line than to adjust 8 other classes (soon to be 9) upward to compensate.
    CS was on GCD for quite some time. It isn't now, but it proves the point that people don't pay attention to other classes other than to cry nerf. I don't know about you, but mages were down in arena representation for quite some times with hunters and shamans. We had one viable comp in 3's, and had to run eurocomp in 5's.

    2's was a terrible mess, but it always has been. Our representation had dropped to something about ~5% across all brackets. I don't know where we stand now, because I've been gone for 6+ months, and the representation now doesn't mean shit with the expansion coming out next week. For quite some time Mages were free HK's to Rogues, Warlocks, Priests, Druids.

    The AP/PoM nerfs happened right before BC iirc, and another AP nerf came in BC where it wouldn't stack with trinkets. The trinket nerf was aimed directly at mages, because people were getting pissed that mages were blowing people up once every 3 minutes with ZoTEP/ZHC AP/PoM, and then being delegated to only being able to scorch/blastwave for the other 2:59.

    As to Eaglestrike's comment, mages have always been about burst, and we've been always given a boon and a bane. Because if they break the balance with mages it breaks PvE/PvP for multiple classes. There's an extremely fine line on balanced and OP with mages.

    Mages do deserve the mobility and burst they've been given. We've been about killing everything as quick as possible, if not providing CC so someone else can do it. This first pass over arcane is very delicate, because if they nerf Arcane Barrage, they will kill Arcane PVE even more than it already is broken.

  16. #16

    And there lies the heart of the issue.

    If Arcane hits all of it's "I win buttons", it tends to vaporize meleers. Ranged, not as much. Burst is dangerous in PvP, but as it's also a portion of what makes mages useful in PvE, nerfing it for PvP can castrate the class in PvE situations where they need to deliver a metric fuckton of damage, extra quick.

    Personally, I think they should work on what you'd expect to be the bread-and-butter of Arcane Missiles more, spreading more Arcane damage over time and less into instant-gib Abarness. Maybe give Arcane a single-shot, rapid-cycling version that they can spam at range without the obliteration combos currently at hand.

    But mages are fueled by QQ, so it's normal.

    Hell, I'm Frost and they nerfed Brain Freeze and Deep Freeze alike. Then again, I don't have either talent....

  17. #17
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyreth View Post
    And there lies the heart of the issue.

    If Arcane hits all of it's "I win buttons", it tends to vaporize meleers. Ranged, not as much. Burst is dangerous in PvP, but as it's also a portion of what makes mages useful in PvE, nerfing it for PvP can castrate the class in PvE situations where they need to deliver a metric fuckton of damage, extra quick.

    Personally, I think they should work on what you'd expect to be the bread-and-butter of Arcane Missiles more, spreading more Arcane damage over time and less into instant-gib Abarness. Maybe give Arcane a single-shot, rapid-cycling version that they can spam at range without the obliteration combos currently at hand.

    But mages are fueled by QQ, so it's normal.

    Hell, I'm Frost and they nerfed Brain Freeze and Deep Freeze alike. Then again, I don't have either talent....
    Brainfreeze is still a great talent, regardless of the nerf. The free extra 1500 damage can't be argued with imo. Although, the deep freeze nerf was a little excessive, it might as well be a controlled stun that doesn't require the target to be frozen in its current form. That or it needs to be moved off the GCD.

  18. #18
    Mithra Ero-Sensei
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    Problem with arcane "burst is...

    even though you rape the shit outa people.. you rape like 50% your mana... thats the problem arcane has in PVE... mana!

    its np in pvp though...

    pom -> hide somewhere -> fireball+ barrage same time someone, probably 60-90% their hp, fireblast dead... hide somewhere till 2min timer up repeat. Drink between kills, think I use like 3K mana in the 3-5 seconds to massacre someone

    you can hear'em just go.. FFFFUUUUUUU!!!! AAAAHHHHHHHhhh

  19. #19
    Sandpaper Demon
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    I'm a big fan of silence shot -> chimera shot -> readiness repeat on mages.

  20. #20
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korietsu View Post
    CS was on GCD for quite some time. It isn't now, but it proves the point that people don't pay attention to other classes other than to cry nerf. I don't know about you, but mages were down in arena representation for quite some times with hunters and shamans. We had one viable comp in 3's, and had to run eurocomp in 5's.

    A. CS was on the GCD for like a week literally, they changed it back soooo fast.


    B. Mages have probably been the most well balanced class through the entirety of TBC, they've never been massively overpowered in any build, and they've always had extremely good builds in every bracket.


    edit: watch some Bamo, he was amazing, this is all season 1 against people like Glorin, Spoh, etc. He made #1 in 2's and 3's with mage priest and mage war pally.

    http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=45162

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