RDM|WHM Melee "Tweaks" to come...

[The Stig]

They aren't overreacting, they are underracting! It will be the end of Vana'diel. The stars and planets will fall from the sky. White Mages will be tanks and Paladins will be healers. Suddenly Galka WHMs will become the dominant force in Vana'diel, and will finally allow the Galkas to rise up and enslave the smaller races. They will force the inferior races to build a great tower from which to rule the land, and atop this tower their ruler will sit on a throne made from the skulls of his enemies while he dispenses his twisted justice to anyone who he perceives to have ever wronged him. It will be a fantastic time to be Atumre.

But seriously, why are people bitching so much about this? At worst, it is something that WHMs will never use. At best it will be rockin' for Campaign and maybe low-man content. You want a JA to give you MP? Sub Scholar and you get a JA and a JA that will give you a spell on steroids. (Oh Dark Arts and Aspir, you are my little secret for a happy MP pool in Dynamis.)

It's not like it is going to be a merited ability that will take away from Shellra V and/or Devotion, it is a freebie. Yes, they could instead spend time working on fixing kings or some other job, they they aren't and bitching isn't going to change their minds. My only hope is that they make some better melee gear for WHMs and RDMs to go along with this buff. (Seriously, would RDM on Homam really kill anyone?)

Hahaha at the first bit.

But you know, if in the circumstances you are asked to tank (and lets say, a career WHM) with minimal experiences of doing so (and probably with the wrong subjob) then whatever you are doing is going to fail anyway. And if you are going to tank after all the other tanks are down, then chances are the same fate will happen to you but with less EXP loss.

Not sure what the situation is but from reading other forums DNCs seem to think they can tank now? Not on easy stuff either.

[Headache]

And finally, someone with a sense of humor. Thank you, Septimus.

I've only been overreacting about this because noone else has. There's too much wrong with WHM melee, and I know from experience, for it to be something that will make me stop punting tarus and killing kittens.

Of all the gear that says MNK/WHM/RDM/etc, and you know what I'm talking about, why does it just stop for some jobs? Hell, WHM in a Shura Togi (yeah yeah, MNK/SAM/NIN) would look funny, but it wouldn't break the game. Or RDM in a Haubergeon. It'd be kinda sweet for the retarded things we do because WHM|RDM is our first 75, and we shouldn't have to level another job to have fun at a game.

That's what this is folks, a game. We're paying 13+ a month to play, so we shouldn't have to spend another 3-4 months levelling another job, subs, collecting gear, to have fun. If it bugs you that I may get to have fun, then maybe YOU should level something else ^^

[BRP]

I don't really see this as a bad or good thing. I guess you could say that's a bad thing in itself. I don't think it will improve the game's metagame at all.

[Septimus]

And finally, someone with a sense of humor. Thank you, Septimus.

I've only been overreacting about this because noone else has. There's too much wrong with WHM melee, and I know from experience, for it to be something that will make me stop punting tarus and killing kittens.

Of all the gear that says MNK/WHM/RDM/etc, and you know what I'm talking about, why does it just stop for some jobs? Hell, WHM in a Shura Togi (yeah yeah, MNK/SAM/NIN) would look funny, but it wouldn't break the game. Or RDM in a Haubergeon. It'd be kinda sweet for the retarded things we do because WHM|RDM is our first 75, and we shouldn't have to level another job to have fun at a game.

That's what this is folks, a game. We're paying 13+ a month to play, so we shouldn't have to spend another 3-4 months levelling another job, subs, collecting gear, to have fun. If it bugs you that I may get to have fun, then maybe YOU should level something else ^^

RDM was my first job to 75, WAR was my second. There is a vast world of difference between a RDM's melee ability and a WAR's melee ability, if I want to hurt something quickly, I will go WAR. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't sell the dev team to a pet store to get Homam and Enkidu's sets for my RDM for the times that I do go out and solo on RDM.

[The Stig]

But as it stands we can only speculate how they will change, unless they specifically make gear/abilities for it outside of what current WHMs can already wear to improve on meleeing, I don't see much changing.

Saying that, they should introduce a melee SCH like job, where if subbed, your weapon skill levels go to a B cap or something, perhaps by using ... I dunno, "Sword Arts" which will unlock your D skill in Sword to a B. Likewise for a lot of the other weapons, which works the same when subbed.

[Kriz]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/ffxi-...ndom-crap.html

If people don't want to read it all, general WHM melee gear set goes: Haste (26%) > Accuracy > Attack > everything else.

Acc for Hexa, and the MND for Boon.

Here's my addition- SE has always had a soft spot for melee WHMs. Reverend Mail, the pirate clubs, sneaking in Perdu wand (I mean, it seems so cute but makes an great offhand weapon), Hexa Strike, Blessed gear, etc.

We may not have the best choices in gear, in fact every time people talk about what to wear for melee WHM, it's not like much has changed.

The only bad part about more melee capabilities on WHM is that the WHMs who casually saunter up to a mob and clonk it will not be up to par, and establish / further erode the idea that a WHM could actually help out if in the right conditions.

[Dohorehn]

Dear SE: fix ninja, at least some kind of job ability
if you dont.
im going to murder the goofy looking dev guy.
he looks weak.

agreed. And after seeing Matsui (I think we're talking about the same guy) the face behind the atrocious PUP AI... I now have enough information for my Death Note entry. Now, get to work Matsui, or else.

[Caudle]

I guess I'm the last WHM that totally doesnt care about DD'ing. If i wanted to be a DD I wouldn't level a support job.
Beside Protectra V being shit, <3 Shellra V, <3 Devotion and <3 Repose. I prefer SE spend their time with other stuff and not making RDM or WHM better DD's.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts... I just think their time could be much better spent as well. I'm actually surprised they're lumping whm and rdm both into this whole mage to frontline thing. I expected it just to be a RDM change.

[Headache]

It would have been only RDM, that's what we'd been promised. But a few of us were pretty adamant that WHM is the only mage without a native MP tool, so they said "Let's give them Spirit Ta... Mystic Boon!"

I'm still pissed they called it unique, sorry.

[Isiolia]

Magic burst also increases magic accuracy, Obviously more tests need to be done to confirm it.

I tried out DB on Skeletons in Garlaige, still unable to land Sleep/Sleep II on them with full Enfeebling merits/Relic hat/HQ staff/etc. The MAcc down thing really doesn't seem to remove immunities, despite what the wiki says. I've read people are able to land things that a mob is highly resistant to more readily, such as wind based spells on Colibri, but that's not really the same thing.



Oh, and RDM on Homam, yes please >.>

[Izzy]

Is there a list of your gearsets anywhere Izzy?

Check my FFXIAH gear history, it's probley everything you would assume it was anyways.

[Linktri]

Melee WHM is very niche and always will be.

WHM was never designed to be a front line fighter but should SE consider it, there's some things they could do to improve a WHMs defensive and offensive capability.

Reduce club delay.
Increase base club skill.
Give WHM the Phalanx spell. (A light based spell that only RDM has access to... wtf?)


Oh and put hMP and hHP into the "Others" merit category.

[Headache]

I can't remember where, it may have just been fanart, but I believe I saw White Mages with two-handed hammers. WHM/SAM with a Great Hammer might be able to actually do some damage. Would still be gimping everything else we use WHM for though.

[Hosom]

I just shuddered a bit. What if they intend to make WHM a tank?

PLD is a raw blood tank, like WAR when we first started, it can cure itself though.
NIN was probably intended to be the first front line mage, instead we use it to tank, not being an MP sponge.
Neither job tanks magic damage very well, since -aga wipes shadows (not saying that it's great to block a tier 4 of AM with just one shadow), but they've given WHM all those Magic Def Bonus traits.
What if they make all that MDB actually worth something, bringing WHM/NIN|WAR|RDM into the tanking scene for stuff that spams -agas.

Pld/Rdm and Rdm/Pld for JoL do this well.
Pld/Nin or Rdm/Nin works fine with correct resist set ups for Wyrms.
Pld/Nin and Rdm/Nin works well with Ultima and a MDB/MDT setup for a low dmg/0 dmg CB...

Sorry, niche is already filled.

[Dimmauk]

Ever do Assault Periqia Requiem with 4xWHM 2xBRD? Ive never seen WHMs have that much fun ever.

[Baelorn]

Just to clear this up as some people seem very, very confused.

This isn’t something where people can expect to move up front and deal out damage. This is something that will produce some beneficial result from striking the enemy.

Not sure why people are acting like SE is trying to turn WHM into a DD job. Maybe there's just nothing else to get worked up over right now.

[Sanjiyan]

WHMs has some inherent drawbacks compared to other classes now and yet when ppl expect SE to do something about it as a healer, people think it's unnecessary bitching.

Everyone knows, even after a WHM melee "fix", whether it'll fly or not, whether it's niche or not, SE will say "well we updated WHM so there, no more for you for another 5 years lol" and after the melee WHM novelty wears off, you still haven't improved upon WHM's main role... being a WHITE mage.

I mean, if WHM wasn't so in the gutter in the first place, I'd welcome the change, but buffing WHM in the melee department is going about it in the wrong way especially since every class only gets that window of attention every so often.

That's just my feeling.

[Zathous]

OP:

So a few people submitted a question at the festival, IGN included, for WHM to get an ability or a spell to recover MP without the help of another job. Instead of giving us a simple "We don't want to", they tell us in an IGN interview that WHM has a "unique" way of regaining mp with the mythic ws Mystic Boon. I want to know who IGN talked to, because they're retarded. Mystic Boon on club is new, but Spirit Taker on staff has been around a while. Oh, Energy Steal anyone?

They said in the same interview that they'll be looking to tweak WHM and RDM for front line combat, probably sometime around March. Now RDM has a lot more readily accessible(AH) gear than WHM, RDM's problem lies in it's B skill, and the massive amounts of gear carried by a RDM to perform all of it's functions as best it can. WHM however, and some of this applies to RDM too, is the total lack of anything DD. Reverend Mail, Acc+10, doesn't make up for skill-20 from a normal DD job. Bellicose Mantle, Attack+6, ...you're kidding me, right? Seawolf/Sea Robber, nice damage, comparable to most hammer type clubs, but have you ever tried camping these pirates?

If you had a WHM at say, Tiamat, who's only way to refresh himself was to melee, would you let them feed tp to him? These "tweaks" aren't going to be enough, sadly, it would take a full overhaul of everything WHM for it to melee without the stigma everyone has put on it. As it is right now, WHM in the best melee gear is roughly equal to a newly 75 THF, but with 90% less criticals, no Sneak/Trick Attack, no Evisceration, considerably less evasion, and Blink instead of Utsusemi.

I'm sorry, Square, but just getting all that melee gear turns my love for melee WHM sour. It's too little, too late, I'm done with WHM, unless this March update, which probably won't happen til March '09, make WHM compete with any DD.

And you and I both know it won't.

WHY? why in gods name are you comparing mages to melee? moving a mage to the front line doesnt substitute for a DD, but rather adds some DPS and more WS to the mix, and MP return to whm (whole pt even? moonlight anyone?). I'm not endorsing mages to melee because in personal expericne with it melee mages dont have a clue, but if you move up front and do nothing but swing with the other 4DD in your pt you adding some DPS and can get MP back via weaponskill and at that point in a tp burn with 4DD if you say all your doing is tp feeding, youve never tanked a mob, because once you move above duo, your basically being spammed by WSs or being ws'ed on enough that more tp feed wont matter (go solo something in campaign and wait for like 4 people to run over, have fun casting utsus for the next 5mins because of WS spam). WHM will never have top acc, club skill etc. and its not meant to because it would make rdms useless if they could spam MP return methods.

You will also do well to notice that in fights where it matters (AV vid put out by dev team) all mages back off. Why? because mages have no right to melee endgame due to their blow ass acc. SE doesnt want mages up front fulltime but they would also probably not like to see them be chastised for moving up to melee.

[rezn0r]

Baelorn is right

[ambutter]

All this talk of WHMs needing some way to recover MP... and no one mentions /SCH and Sublimation (my apologies if I missed a mention). I know this is more of a WHM melee discussion... but if your issue is really MP, nothing beats WHM/SCH with a BRD and/or a COR in the pt. I realize that sometimes a RDM is more ideal than a BRD or COR, but even in those cases, the MP efficiency of /SCH coupled with Refresh should be sufficient. If you're not /SCHing on WHM... stop what you're doing.