Regarding base critical hit rate during critical hit weaponskills

[Shinryuu]

On my WAR, for merits on colibri, I have 120 DEX in my WS set for raging rush, because 120 is pretty much the cutoff point for maximum base critical hit rate (DEX - enemy's AGI) if I'm not mistaken.

However, a friend of mine mentioned (in regards to drakesbane, another critical WS) that he thought your base critical hit rate doesn't matter, and that only TP affects critical hit rate during critical weaponskills. Has there ever been testing done in this aspect? I'd hate to find out I could have swapped in STR and raw accuracy for better results all this time.

[Max™]

Pretty sure your it takes your base crit rate, merits, +crit gear, +crit from Tp%, and Dex vs Agi into account.

Like, ridiculously sure, given the results I've gotten as my gear has gotten better and moved from mostly Str/low Dex (pre-heca bits) to now at 71+48, 68+45 Str/Dex for RR.

[Valyana]

Nagamaki did some testing on crit rate in WS a while back. He found that for example, at 100 TP Rampage crit rate is the same as your base crit rate, and that Backhand Blow crit rate is base+40%.

[WraithLakshmi]

Yes, your base critical rate will be your crit rate for Raging Rush at 100tp. Some WS get bonuses on top of that, like was mentioned for Backhand Blow.

And FYI, crits seem to cap out around 117 DEX (on G.colibri), so you could lose a bit of dex if you have something better to fit in.

[Ophannus]

I wonder what the base crit% is on drakesbane/skewer

[Wolfknight]

I wonder what the base crit% is on drakesbane/skewer

^ this, though fact that parse showed cletine/claymore favor over thalo/pole, I'd think it's just base +small rate at best.

[Max™]

I'm certain that with a 50% Str mod and 4 hits, DB is base crit rate at 100%, and probably goes up like 5~10% per 100 additional TP.

[WraithLakshmi]

From calculations I've done, I'm fairly certain (80%) that Drakesbane doesn't get a crit bonus at 100tp. I'm not a drg myself, but if any drg want to test this, you'll just need to test by finding the damage range for a 1 hit crit drakesbane on a level 0 mob, and go outside bastok. Might take a while to build a good sample size, but if we have several people across all servers doing this, we might be able to get a running database.

[Ophannus]

If it doesn't get a crit bonus at 100% then how can people do consistant 1.5k~ drakesbanes at 100% TP if crit% is only like 7-9%

Surely the extra hit from penta even at 20%STR 20%DEX is still better than 1 hit less at 50%STR?

[VZX]

Nagamaki did some testing on crit rate in WS a while back. He found that for example, at 100 TP Rampage crit rate is the same as your base crit rate, and that Backhand Blow crit rate is base+40%.

IIRC, +0%, +20%, +40% are just the numbers he gave for example, not the real ones.

[WraithLakshmi]

If it doesn't get a crit bonus at 100% then how can people do consistant 1.5k~ drakesbanes at 100% TP if crit% is only like 7-9%

The same reason why Blade: Jin is better than Blade: Ku. For drakesbane, if you get one double attack, you've now matched penta thrust. Now, add in the chance to score a critical on one of the hits (most melee with crit merits will be around 10-14% crit rate, depending on the mob), and also the fact that most drg's will probably have more str than dex in their ws gear, and you begin to see why Drakesbane outperforms penta thrust.

Also, Drg's don't "consistantly" get 1.5k drakesbanes. Your average Drakesbane at greater colibri from a decently geared drg will be around 1 - 1.2k.

[Starr]

Also, Drg's don't "consistantly" get 1.5k drakesbanes. Your average Drakesbane at greater colibri from a decently geared drg will be around 1 - 1.2k.

I shouldn't hope so, I could do that at mamools.

[Baelorn]

I shouldn't hope so, I could do that at mamools.

With what gear? If it's above average then that comment was pointless.

[WraithLakshmi]

Keep in mind too that people see themselves do one 1.5k drakesbane, and in their mind that's their "average," glossing over the 500 damage one they did before from missed hits.

[Starr]

With what gear? If it's above average then that comment was pointless.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...223_210316.png

+Meat and BRD or COR attack buffs, although these are a given I hope.

[Baelorn]

image

+Meat and BRD or COR attack buffs, although these are a given I hope.

A.) I had no idea you were Taru.
B.) I'd call that above average. Maybe not for BG but yeah.

[Jem]

I shouldn't hope so, I could do that at mamools.

Whilst Drakesbane does seem to be stupidly broken, I think you might be exaggerating slightly on the average player.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...tDRGmerits.jpg

Greater Colibri.

Blaize - DRG/SAM
Jem - DRK/SAM
Lior - WAR/NIN

Buffs. Double March, Double Min. Average will be ever so slightly lower than what it should be as the Minuet BRD had to afk for a while.

I don't know Blaize's gear off the top of my head but you can get an idea of what it might be like from my gear.

Perdu / Pole Grip / Fire Bomblet
Ace's Helm / Justice Torque / Brutal / Abyssal
Adaberk / Homam / Ulthalams / Rajas
Foragers / Swift / Homam / Aurum

WS gear is cookie cutter DRK gear to the above standard. Black Cuisses, Heca Cap, AF+1, etc.


So the melees are by no means gimp and still averaged a lot lower than you suggest. In terms of gear Blaize was the worst but still by no means gimp. Pretty much the same as you but no Love Torque or Heca Harness and uses Thalasso. He does lack STR merits though and is possibly only 4/8 on Polearm.

EDIT: Blaize is Elvaan for the record. Other two are Hume.

[WraithLakshmi]

Starr, your gear is above average, but you're still not going to average 1.5k on drakesbane. Parse it and post it here if I'm wrong, but I highly doubt that, since I know elvaans with full merits and gear similar to yours that don't average anywhere near that high.

[Ophannus]

Penta destroys Drakesbane if you have an extremely high attack rating i noticed.

I was doing birds with COR,2 BRDs and a apoc DRK so i went DRG/WAR.

With berserk,warcry,minuets/chaos roll and coeurl subs I had about 850 attack and my pentas were doing 2.5k almost 3k with angon. RDM was dia IIing everything. Drakesbane was still decent (1.8k-2.6k)but generally lower(penta was more consistant 2.5ks)

My gear is identical to yours Starr except for Thalasso and Conte legs instead of Paluwan(And like 20 str from elvaan base stat) I think i might get Paluwhan once I get homam pants so i can make a mean 1m

[Starr]

Starr, your gear is above average, but you're still not going to average 1.5k on drakesbane.

The hell is with people putting words into your mouth these days lol, I said I can average 1k at Mamools and I can.