/NIN to /SAM to /WAR for RNG

[Avarice]

I understand every subjob is situational, but to end a dispute between two friends, can you list the pros and cons to each of the three subs and then, if you are a career RNG or even have the job at 75, explain which sub job you prefer to use and why? Thanks.

[Rya]

/Nin
I Like to it for Campaign battles and claiming Ixion
/Sam
This is my personal prefered sub when fighting Ixion, Meditate and Seigan/3rd eye for mitigation puts it above /war on Ixion for me.

I dont really use ranger that much so my experience with the various subs in detail is limited, i do not and would not ever use ranger for merits unless i had a KClub.

[Starr]

Well if you do Ixion on RNG, NIN sub is worthless shit as everything he does that will get you goes through shadows, SAM sub is meh because 9 times out of 10 if you want fast and easy TP there are weak as hell EP mobs at the camp anyway so TP on them, WAR sub is best. Odin, sub WAR because if you got this far I damn well hope your tanks can hold hate, well you may take hate a little later on but it's np. Erm merits I always sub NIN but I can see how sam would work just as well with Seigan. RNG is good for a lot of ZNM but really safest to sub NIN for all these except when you're at Tier4 in which case you'll die if you get hate anyway pretty much.

[cdgreg]

I recently leveled rng to 75 mostly for Odin and zergs since I am a career mage and I posted a very similar question on our LS forums, this is the reply I got back. For the record I already had /nin, and was trying to decide between /war or /sam.

Well if your planning to use it for mostly zergs. Then WAR. When you use warcry and besrek magic happens with archery.

I prefer /WAR allot, the only time I find /SAM to be usful and out damaging over WAR is like dynamis, or TP burns, thats onl if im killing savages. If its birds you bet your ass im going /WAR.

If your only going to lvl one, and for what you plan to use RNG for, lvl WAR.

[Jakson]

/NIN most of the time. War is just asking to die, though in things like sky when there's like 8 more people than you need, I'll do it for Gods. Suzaku is totally worth it, though you're almost guaranteed to die.

[Wulfgang]

/WAR for most things with an established tank (Cerb, Khim, Gods, etc)
/NIN for solo and lower man stuff
/SAM is a toss-up, the only thing I use it for 100% of the time is Odin

For merits, I moogle > job change.

[ninjafox]

I don't think I've ever used /sam. I just /war to most things cuz its easier to use. Even if I do go /nin its cuz I don't wanna buy powders and oils, being that most of the thing you'll fight either do aoe or have some kinda multi hit tp move that'll blow through shadows anyway.

[Mojo]

To begin with, I never used RNG for merit. If you're looking for advice in that regard, I have nothing for you.

WAR.: This is a good subjob, although it has drawbacks that people overlook too easily. Primarily, you're left completely defenseless. Pulling hate while Berserk is up can get you killed very easily. Death and the subsequent need to be Raised not only places a burden on the rest of the alliance but enables any sensible and equally geared RNG to eclipse your damage. Berserk is only up for 3 out of every 5 minutes, so you're left with minimal subjob benefits for the other 40% of the time.

NIN.: Two axes/daggers is nice, although it's nothing to write home about. There isn't much else NIN has to offer in terms of increasing your potential damage output, although having Utsusemi available will allow you to be somewhat liberal in your TP/Barrage use. A skilled RNG/NIN can still pull off respectable damage by going all out while still retaining great survivability.

SAM.: Many will say this is some kind of middleground subjob between damage and survivability. It is in a sense, although its potential damage output is highly overlooked. It's been a while since I've played RNG, but I'm fairly certain that most RNG/WAR end up using S/E/Vbow for a 7 hit build (maybe 6). A well geared gun-wielding RNG/SAM can build 100% TP in 5 hits (one of those being Slug/Heavy Shot, mind you). The difference in time it takes to build enough TP to weaponskill can be staggering, it adds quite a bit to your potential damage output. You also have Meditate, which is 2/3 of a weaponskill every three minutes. It's especially useful in those cases where most of your time is spent walking around (Dynamis, Limbus, etc.) Lastly, you also have Seigen/Hasso, the former being highly useful if used correctly.

Either way, it's all situational. There are times when I would have chosen every single one of those as my subjob. If I were forced to choose a subjob I would have to use forever, it would definitely be SAM.

[Silpha]

/sam makes me feel i can live longer than /war, but...

As would /nin even more, but...

Most of the time when you take hate at bad moment, you'll die with or without shadows~
So /war ftw, lets pump those sidewinders, son!


(guess /nin can be good if you want to dual wield for a good racc boost; like ixion with no brd-cor and still eat meat,...)

[Syntex]

/nin for when you have shitty tanks or something thats being kited as you will just eventually pull hate and shadows is nice, not to mention more acc+rattk with a fran/kriegs(that may be outdated, last time I played my RNG was over a year ago). Although this doesn't matter but having a free invis so you don't have to carry powders is a nice bonus

/war like others said is asking to die, beserk+warcry+WS+barrage+WS is going to kill you, slap a EES to add insult to injury since your going down anyways, you either need amazing tanks or a paladin to cover you or your toast but my only RNG experience is limited to sky and some land HNM.

/sam I never tried, I don't think it would beat war in damage and to me thats what you should put fourth the most your the BLM of Melee jobs and I can see where the survivability with 3rd eye and the other /sam benifits would help but its a middle street and your DPS you need to do as much dmg as possible imo.

[Mojo]

The sheer number of people who say that /SAM damage is mediocre without actually giving it a proper try never ceases to amaze me.

[Kohan]

The sheer number of people who say that /SAM damage is mediocre without actually giving it a proper try never ceases to amaze me.

Aside from the bows you mentioned, what gear would you specifically use as a RNG/SAM for a 5-7 hit build?

[terraflarex]

Even the best tanks will not hold hate over a good RNG/WAR spamming Sidewinder, it is just impossible. That being said, it is a great SJ for certain fights especially if you have a THF in your PT to steal some of your hate. If you know how to manage your enmity, you can pull off warrior sub in longer fights, but it is very easy to pull hate off even the best tanks if you are not careful.

Ninja sub I never really cared for. The idea of using axes on fights where you would use rangers just seems completely useless. Of course it enhances your survivability if you need it so it obviously has some uses if you anticipate having to tank or quazi tank at some point.

Samurai sub is often overlooked, but I think it is a fairly useful SJ. You can still do good damage with it, and you get the benefit of meditate / hasso (minimal benefit but still not completely useless). Seigan / Third eye can potentially save you if you pull hate as well.

If you just play ranger for e-peen numbers, then obviously you're just going to use war sub for everything, but if you actually care about your survivability, it's not always the best choice

"Shit's situation" etc etc

[terraflarex]

Aside from the bows you mentioned, what gear would you specifically use as a RNG/SAM for a 5-7 hit build?

RNG/SAM on bow can't really do what I would call an efficient 5 hit build in terms of the gear you need to pull it off (or the food). Though I am sure it is possible to do with some of that newer store TP cobra stuff.

You can do a 6 hit bow build on RNG/WAR (or /SAM) with pretty optimal gear, however. I forger what the numbers are for Vali's/Ebow, but with Yoichi you need Skadi legs and Rajas ring basically. Vali's bow is lower delay, so I believe you also need to use brutal earring in addition to the other two pieces of gear. [That's assuming WAR sub, you need less STP for /SAM].

[Mojo]

Aside from the bows you mentioned, what gear would you specifically use as a RNG/SAM for a 5-7 hit build?

The 5 hit build is RNG/SAM with a gun, the 6-7 hit build (I honestly can't remember which it was but I'm leaning towards 7) was for RNG/WAR using bow. There was a lot of good gear put in for RNG in the last few years that I didn't bother getting, so my ideal build would have been a bunch of stuff I never had heh. I could put something together for you if you're curious, although I would need to know exactly how ranged TP is calculated as I've forgotten and it's not on the wiki or any other place I can find.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Store TP Calculator

[Kohan]

If you could, please. My significant other plays RNG and I directed them to this thread, and they're interested. Has all of the applicable subs.

[Antithesis]

I'll give a tl;dr summary of the subjobs:

WAR: Shit-ton of damage. Everything is mass damage, no exceptions. Stealth Shot is your friend. Conorach is your prostitute if you have it.

NIN: Play it safe. All about shadows. Dual Wield is nice but in this day and age its overshadowed really easily.

SAM: I have no idea why people keep saying "middlegrounds" sub. 5 hit Build with a gun makes this sub wipe the floor with anything else besides WAR. Easily gives WAR sub a run for its money. Seigan owns your soul. Meditate is fun.

[Wulfgang]

What's the point of shaving X number of hits off the race to 100 when you can't WS at 100 anyways? Khimaira, Cerb, Odin, etc; you will be tanking if you WS at 100 every time (assuming you even land the WSs, which is another flaw with the X-hit build theory for an endgame RNG).

Dynamis / Limbus, bring another job outside of DL (which you better be /WAR for anyways).

[jimbobsonofgod]

Antithesis G

Change your sig damn it, I waste a good 5 mins after each one of your posts just staring at it.