AV video solved? - Torque Theory Only

[Tsuko_Asura]

No, I extrapolated a great point

Mom, you're thinking masturbate..

Extrapolate is different.

[urat]

Question:

Pre nerf, if per say your group got lucky and AV used his least destructive abilities, lets say benediction and invincible, and you succesfully locked them, which in turn following the group lock idea, which would lock... chainspell/invincible/perfect dodge/manafont/benediction? I think thats right...

Anywho, if you got lucky and managed to lock those abilities in the first 10-20 mins, how long would you say it'd take to kill AV? Pre 2 hour nerf, just using standard alliance set up with the odds in your favour...

[Linktri]

Question:

Pre nerf, if per say your group got lucky and AV used his least destructive abilities, lets say benediction and invincible, and you succesfully locked them, which in turn following the group lock idea, which would lock... chainspell/invincible/perfect dodge/manafont/benediction? I think thats right...

Anywho, if you got lucky and managed to lock those abilities in the first 10-20 mins, how long would you say it'd take to kill AV? Pre 2 hour nerf, just using standard alliance set up with the odds in your favour...

Answer: A billun billun yrz.

[Hogie]

Sorry in advance, this post is super long

Ninja Edit at the End

I have so much i want to post about AV in general and ideas but ill try and keep this post as much on track as i possibly can.


First and for most i just want to say that i like the idea of Torques and that they can HELP, but i dont think they are the main focus. Sea weapons i have to say 95% sure that they have nothing to do with "locking" AV. I have examined all 4 video's and in all 4 there is no reference to any jailer weapons being used even once. The only reference, and im not even sure if its JoJ Sword (could be a Excalibur) is right at the end after they win and they all do /emotes. There is a Taru RDM right in the front that has a sword on.

Next thing to point out is that if Torques do help locking AV, we should also assume that capes will play a part in this for mages as well. Each cape can correspond with a mage job rather then a torque. Something like the following:


War - Fort torque
Mnk - Faith torque
Thf - love torque
Whm - Altruistic / Prudence Torque
Blm - Merciful / Prudence torque
Rdm - Altruistic Cape
Pld - Fort torque
Drk - Justice torque / Merciful Cape
Bst - Temp torque
Brd - Astute Cape
Rng - Hope torque
Sam - Justice torue
Nin - Hope torque / Astute Cape
Drg - Love torque
Smn - Astute Cape


So now, if these items associated with the correct jobs (and im not saying the above is correct, im just saying thats what makes the most sense) does in fact lock two hours, when and how would they effect it? Sorry i dont have a quote, but someone (maybe from Lord W's LJ?) mentioned that people are using thier 2h's before AV is. If you look back at the video's, they are not using them before hand, but a lot of the time is so very close. I dont think it is possible to make AV stop using 2h's all together, but rather you can divert him from using certain ones .

That is a very good thing to note.

Excellent point, if he pops Chainspell or PD or Invincible and the corresponding job 2hrs with the torque on, then he follows with another 2hr which is on the corresponding weapon, that should definitely be noted, also worth noting if there is any effect if a job on the weapon 2hrs with the torque on but it isn't a matched 2hr.

AV pops PD.
Pld uses Invincible.

or

AV pops PD.
Pld uses Invincible.
AV uses Invincible.

Both are important to consider.

Although i do find this very interesting, you can see from the different video's that this cant be true. There is a SMN using his 2h when AV uses Astral Flow and there is a BRD using Soul Voice when AV uses Soul Voice.

It was also mentioned that AV can only use the 2h's of people who are in your alliance. This is most definitely not true as in the video you can see there are WHM's in the tank party because when they use Benediction, it hits the tanks.

From what i have looked at in all 4 video's, SE has shown us AV using 6 2H's in just over 1 hour time span. The time stamps in the video's go from roughly 14:00 Ice day to 14:00 Thunders day as shown below:

Call Wyvern - English - 12:10 Ice Day - Uses
Hundred Fists - french - 16:13 Ice day - Uses
Soul Voice - DE - 14:42 Ice day (Jpn DE, Same)
Soul Voice - Jpn - 14:42 Ice Day (Jpn DE, same
Meikyo Shisui - Jpn - 16:55 Ice dAY (Jpn DE, Same) 
Meikyo Shisui - DE - 16:55 Ice Day (Jpn DE, Same)
Chainspell - French -  5:07 Thunders day (English French, same) - Readies
Chainspell - English - 5:07 Thunders day (English French, same) - Readies
Soulvoice - English - 6:50 Thunders day - Uses 
Astral Flow - DE - 8:55 Thunders day (DE French, same)
Astral Flow - French - 8:55 Thunders day (DE French, same)
??????? - Jpn - 13:55 Thunders day

As you can see from this, AV uses Soul Voice more then once. There is no way that they had locked the Soul Voice ability in the video, but maybe they didnt want to? Maybe SE has shown us these clips because they want to show us that you cant lock the 2 hours, but rather control them to a manor in where it is manageable. If i remember right, AV uses 2h's in sets of three. I tried to do some digging but i couldn't find the list of them, but for example, AV follows up Chainspell with a Manafont and then proceeds to ruin your day with Meteor spam. Now in the video, they show AV using Chainspell, but never uses Manafont. So although it is using a 2H, it is not following that 2H up with more. If you look at the time stamps of all the video's, there is roughly 2 game hours in between the 2h.

Looking at the time stamps above, they are showing us him using a 2h roughly every 2 game hours. If there is a series of 2h's he will use in a row, and the second 2 are locked out, that will leave AV in a melee state for the remaining time left in that 3 2hours. This would hopefully cut down AV's 2h's to roughly 5 different ones.

Now the huge problem, what makes it stop using 2 hours for that 2 game hours. I think to start, it would be a good idea to have everyone in the alliance using one of the above Torque or Cape combination, and from there if that works we can narrow it down. It wont hurt to try too much rather then too little.

Now the bigger question is, what job will need what Torque / Cape? There are a number of ways to do it, but i think most important would be to use to makes sense to start with. RDM's wearing a Altruistic cape when they 2h, BLM's using a Merciful cape when they 2h. But what about the torques? Would a PLD need to be using a Fortitude Torque because they have high sword skill? Or should they be using a Temperance Torque because they are meleeing in a Terra Staff int he video? Should a DRK be using a Justice Torque because of the Scythe skill, or a Prudence torque because of the Great Sword skill? In the video, they had RDM tanks, should they use a Altruistic Cape, or a Temp Torque because they are meleeing in a staff?


There are a LOT of different ways of testing out Torques and their effect on locking AV's 2h. Another huge problem we have is that in the 1 hour (real) time the clips are taken from the 4 different video's, some people use their 2h twice. In the English video (2:45) The DRK uses Blood Weapon at 6:50 Thundersday, then on the French video (2:55) the DRK uses Blood Weapon again at 8:55 Thunders Day. That is less then 5 min apart from each other (roughly 2 min 2 seconds per game hour). How is it possible for that? The only solution i can think of is that if this is done right, you have to get your 2h back. There is no possible way that anyone has done it right because no one has ever got their 2h back.


Because this post is solely for the Torque theory, im not going to get in to any detail about the Aern's around AV, but i think that even though this is a thread about the Torque theory, we need to stress that the Aern's in the area should be dead at all times.




In conclusion of my stupidly long theory post, Torques will need to be tested multiple times in different situations for this to be proven wrong. Some things that need to be tested:

1. Do Capes effect this or only torques?
2. What torque will each job need? Is it for innate skill for job to torque? or is it for what weapon the character is using?
3. If a character, say a RDM, is using a staff, will they need both cape and torque?




NINJA EDIT: OMG i cant believe i never noticed this before. Basically through all the video's AV uses 2h 8 DIFFERENT times. Out of the 8 times he did a 2H, only 1 of the times did it say "Absolute Virtue Readies XXX 2h" The only time it Readied a 2 hour, was on the English and French video when it uses Chainspell (3:15 English, 2:50 French) And when he Readied the Chainspell, only 3 2h's were used by players. Manafont, Soul Voice and Chainspell were used right after it was Readied, but dosnt seem to be any certain order. No one else used their 2hours at this time, why?

When AV uses Chainspell, Popumyomapu uses Manafont, Hina uses Soul Voice and Chikiki uses Chainspell. Less then 5 min later, Popumyonmapu uses Manafont again after AV uses Soulvoice.

[Ramses]

In the time it took you to post that, you could have actually read this thread and realized nothing you said is new.

[Hogie]

In the time it took you to post that, you could have actually read this thread and realized nothing you said is new.

Wow really? Thanks i had no idea that other people had wrote things in this thread. In fact, I swear i thought i started the thread

[Neosutra]

Not only that, you arent even lining up the torques to the right jobs (as per the new theory).

[Seraph]

"Hey SAMs, sorry but the PLD needs this Justice Torque to test the new AV theory."

If this ends up being correct, I think alot of people are going to be pissed off... XD

[Ramses]

Wow really? Thanks i had no idea that other people had wrote things in this thread. In fact, I swear i thought i started the thread

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. You read the thread, realized you had nothing new to add and decided to make a huge post of nothing new anyway? I seriously don't understand.

[Riki]

1. Do Capes effect this or only torques?

According to the original source, only torques.

2. What torque will each job need? Is it for innate skill for job to torque? or is it for what weapon the character is using?

Jailer weapons can be used as a compass to determine which torque should be used. Jailer Torque -> equip on those jobs whose weapon drops from the same Jailer

[Hogie]

"Hey SAMs, sorry but the PLD needs this Justice Torque to test the new AV theory."

If this ends up being correct, I think alot of people are going to be pissed off... XD

Where did i say PLD needs a Justice Torque? if i did it was a misprint and i cant find it

[Max™]

Credit goes to Sept for pointing this out, but it's a conjecture, and I'd be surprised if you couldn't find people with lots of torque/job combos.

One thing this idea does have going for it, [obvious]is that most of the previous 2hr testing is unlikely to have included a Rdm wearing a Justice torque, or a hope staff job with a hope torque, etc.[/obvious]

It would be a little ironfisted, but you could give added incentive for torque lotters if they have the corresponding jobs, and this idea bears out.

[Hogie]

According to the original source, only torques.

Original source only said thats what they found, not that they tested anything with capes.

Why would SE make it so a BRD SMN would need to wear a Hope Torque when they use 2h? It makes much more sense for them to be using a Astute Cape. I can understand some like SAM/DRG using Love, or RNG/BST using Temp Torque. Other just dont make any sense as to why they would be using it. BRD/SMN using a Hope Torque? RDM/THF/PLD All using Justice Torque? WHM/BLM using Prudence (BLM ok i get it) DRK using Temp Torque?

Something just dosnt add up.

[Seraph]

Where did i say PLD needs a Justice Torque? if i did it was a misprint and i cant find it

It has nothing to do with your post specifically, and more about the fact that unless people already happen to have the correct job/gear combinations, we might start seeing people with certain jobs getting torques that have no +skill or +stat on it that benefits them.

The example was PLD (Can use Justice Sword, therefore needs Justice Torque). Max™ provides an even funnier example of a RDM (Can use Justice Sword, therefore needs Justice Torque).

You seriously mean to tell me that a career SAM wouldn't be irked that a RDM gets a Justice Torque over him? Do you even do Sea? >_>

[Deader2818]

"Hey SAMs, sorry but the PLD needs this Justice Torque to test the new AV theory."

If this ends up being correct, I think alot of people are going to be pissed off... XD

ORRRR Have one of the SAMs that has the torque, level up PLD for the sake of test?

Just an idea...

Im sure some SAMs also have PLD leveled, or RDM... Or THF...

[Seraph]

ORRRR Have one of the SAMs that has the torque, level up PLD for the sake of test?

Just an idea...

Im sure some SAMs also have PLD leveled, or RDM... Or THF...

I understand, I just find the situation comical. Either it's correct and a bunch of shells might shift their gear priorities a little bit for the benefit of fighting AV, or it's incorrect and we will all get to laugh at this woosh of epic levels.

[Acturus]

"Hey SAMs, sorry but the PLD needs this Justice Torque to test the new AV theory."

If this ends up being correct, I think alot of people are going to be pissed off... XD

That... really sounds like SE.

[Ultimagi]

The Alliance

Tank Party x2
Paladin/Ninja x2, White Mage/Scholar, Red Mage/White Mage, Bard/White Mage, Scholar/Red Mage

Mirror Party
Warrior, Monk, Dark Knight, Ranger, Samurai, Scholar/White Mage

Outside Party
Black Mage x5, Corsair

More Rangers kept outside the alliance as required.

Formation

.........................AV
...........PLD......................PLD
(5ft)...........PLD..........PLD



(15ft)................Mirror




(30ft)............... Mages

Only Paladins will get hit with Auroral Wind and Impact Stream, their supporters will have to remove Silence and Erase quickly. All of the Mirror Party and Scholars will be hit with Aeroga IV, and will recast Stoneskin after each cast. This will spread Aeroga IV damage across 11 people, just in case 1 person is missed, minimizing the damage to the Paladins.

Dealing with 2 hour abilities.

Invincible, Perfect Dodge, Familiar, Mijin Gakure, and Astral Flow are ignored.
Mighty Strikes, Benediction, Blood Weapon, and Eagle Eye Shot are tanked as per normal, but mirrored by the appropriate member of the Mirror Party or Tank Party.
Hundred Fists is mirrored by the Monk, and 1 Paladin will use any and all job abilities they require to survive it, including Invincible.
Soul Voice, Chainspell, and Manafont will require Rangers to use Shadowbind, and swap out for another Ranger to outlast the duration of the ability. This should not require more than 2 Rangers with proper coordination, although 4 may be required if 2 of these abilities are used in succession. Once the ability is used, one Paladin should generate as much Enmity as possible to hold Absolute Virtue in place, while everyone else runs out of range to wait out the ability. The appropriate party members will mirror these abilities, so hopefully a Black Mage is able to be swapped into the main alliance before Manafont is used.
Call Wyvern
At the start of the fight, the Black Mages will manaburn the Wynavs once they are spawned.
Once all of the abilities are locked which need to be, a kiter will kite one Wynav around while Black Mages continue to manaburn the Wynavs spawned.
When Absolute Virtue starts spawning 6 Wynavs, 2 more kiters will kite two more Wynavs.
These kiters will be members of the Mirror Party who have successfully mirrored their 2 hour ability and have changed jobs if needed.

Killing Absolute Virtue

After the above process is completed, Absolute Virtue will only be able to use Perfect Dodge, Invincible, Familiar, Call Wyvern, Mijin Gakure, and Astral Flow. With the Black Mage party swapped into the alliance, they need only to keep enough MP to kill Wynavs while nuking Absolute Virtue down with the element of the day of the week.

I don't believe the torques have anything to do with locking the 2 hour abilities, but I won't let personal opinion interfere with the scientific process, so equip your alliance members with the appropriate torques.

Edit: To prove an ability is locked, Absolute Virtue needs to use any other ability at least 20 times, at that point it becomes improbable that he can use it.
Number of times ability not used : probability he can use it
92%
84%
77%
71%
65%
59%
54%
50%
46%
42%
38%
35%
32%
30%
27%
25%
23%
21%
19%
18%
16%
At 21 uses of another ability, the point becomes probably true.

[DAKPluto]

OK, I feel like it's 2005 again and everyone only has 1 75 job....

[Hogie]

I think something that a lot of people are severely overlooking, is that SE didnt bring a SINGLE Rng with them. They sat there and ate Chainspell and Soul Voice (and yes the video shows at least 1 tank getting charmed, a pld). If SE are as big of morons as people think they are, then how come they can stand there and take the beating and the only solution most come up with is bring 10 rangers and shadowbind everything