I'm pretty uneducated on this matter, so help me out.

[Saga]

I know, we've all read this pointless fucking debate between senators a million times, but it's gotten SO stale right now it's not even entertaining anymore, it's depressing.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Leading Republicans warned Sunday that the Obama administration's $800 billion-plus economic stimulus effort will lead to what one called a "financial disaster."
The country will "pay dearly" if it executes the president's stimulus plans, Sen. Richard Shelby says.

The country will "pay dearly" if it executes the president's stimulus plans, Sen. Richard Shelby says.

"Everybody on the street in America understands that," said Sen. Richard Shelby, the ranking Republican on the Senate Banking Committee. "This is not the right road to go. We'll pay dearly."

Shelby, of Alabama, told CNN's "State of the Union" that the package and efforts to shore up the struggling banking system will put the United States on "a road to financial disaster."

But Lawrence Summers, the head of the administration's National Economic Council, said Republicans have lost their credibility on the issue. Video Watch Republicans criticize the stimulus bill »

"Those who presided over the last eight years -- the eight years that brought us to the point where we inherit trillions of dollars of deficit, an economy that's collapsing more rapidly than at any time in the last 50 years -- don't seem to me in a strong position to lecture about the lessons of history," Summers told ABC's "This Week."

President Barack Obama, his advisers and the Democratic leaders of Congress argue the roughly $830 billion measure will help pull the U.S. economy out of its current skid. Much of the package involves infrastructure spending, long-term energy projects and aid to cash-strapped state and local governments.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reported last week that the measure is likely to create between 1.3 million and 3.9 million jobs by the end of 2010, lowering a projected unemployment rate of 8.7 percent by up to 2.1 percentage points.
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But the CBO warned the long-term effect of that much government spending over the next decade could "crowd out" private investment, lowering long-term economic growth forecasts by 0.1 percent to 0.3 percent by 2019.

In a concession to Republicans, about a third of the bill involves tax cuts. But the measure is expected to have only minimal GOP support when it goes to a scheduled vote early this week. Video Watch South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford warn of "disastrous consequences »

The version of the bill that passed the House of Representatives had no Republican votes.

"We need to spend money on infrastructure and on other programs that will immediately put people to work. But this is not it," said Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, last year's GOP presidential nominee.

Senators reached a tentative agreement Friday on a compromise bill largely negotiated by a handful of moderate Republicans whose votes are needed to prevent a filibuster. But McCain told CBS' "Face the Nation" that the package should have been about half the size of the one now before senators, and should be balanced between tax cuts and spending.

"We're going to amass the largest debt in the history of this country, by any measurement, and we're going to ask our kids and grandkids to pay for it," he said.

The stimulus bill includes about $45 billion in transportation spending, much of which can be spent on projects "that can be implemented immediately," Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told CNN. LaHood, a former Republican congressman from Illinois, said he would talk to his former colleagues on Capitol Hill "and do all that I can to persuade them that this bill really will put people to work."

He said he invited state transportation chiefs to Washington for a Wednesday meeting on how to create jobs using funding from the stimulus bill.

"There aren't going to be any boondoggles. This money will be spent correctly, by the book, with no shortcuts," LaHood said.

The administration is also readying a second phase of the financial bailout program launched by the Bush administration last fall.

Shelby said Obama and his advisers need to address the staggering problems in the U.S. banking system first.

"Until we straighten out our banking system, until there is trust in our banking system, until there's investment there, this economy is going to continue to tank," he said.

Shelby also has been critical of other efforts by the federal government to help the struggling economy, including legislation that would have provided a bailout to the auto industry.
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But Sen. Kent Conrad, the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, told CBS the current recession -- which has already produced an unemployment rate of 7.6 percent -- is in danger of a deep downturn "like we saw in the Great Depression."

"If there is a failure to give a significant boost to this economy, this crisis will only deepen and become far more serious," said Conrad, D-North Dakota.

All anyone opposed to these stimulus plans EVER says is, "This isn't the right road to go down. This will leader to disaster." Nothing else is ever suggested. Fucking come up with something else instead of whining about it, jesus christ. It's getting tiring. What's the point in straight out opposing something without offering a different suggestion or some criticism? That's all we ever hear is, "This won't work. It looks terrible. Road to destruction." Offer an alternative is all I'm asking. Is it so difficult? As I said, I'm uneducated in the matter so someone please explain to me why the only response from the opposition is, "Nope, this isn't it."

[Enkidu]

Political gamble. If they oppose it and it doesn't work (even if they're the cause of it not working) the other party loses credibility.

When/if the plan is passed you'll see Republicans constantly saying it's not working while Democrats are constantly saying it is working, and each will have statistics that back their claim. All the while the country will sink deeper in the hole because in all actuality the plan will probably just retain the status quo.

[SephYuyX]

It's fucking dumb. We dont need a stimulus package, most people just end up keeping it or using it on something dumb. It's a waste of money, and like it's been said, taxes are going to be through the roof for this generation.

Not only will this cause more of a debt, foreign countries wont loan to us anymore because of it.

If the goverment wants to waste $ on something, fix the housing issue as it's one of the main reasons were at this point. The last time we were in a recession the gov created a dirty loan bank, and it worked fine, just do that again.

[Azkarin2]

Not only will this cause more of a debt, foreign countries wont loan to us anymore because of it.

Can you explain what you mean by this statement?

[SephYuyX]

We have countries lending us money, and theyre becoming more reluctant as our dept is growing bigger, and our money is growing weaker.

[Azkarin2]

Who is lending us money? US Dollars? Different from purchasing US Treasuries?

[TheShadyMan]

Who is lending us money?

Really?

[Correction]

If the goverment wants to waste $ on something, fix the housing issue as it's one of the main reasons were at this point. The last time we were in a recession the gov created a dirty loan bank, and it worked fine, just do that again.

'Bad banks' are already being constructed. It's not enough.

[SephYuyX]

China is one, some of UK another. Every country lends others, it's been going on for a very long time.

And no, I dont know the exact method by which this money is loaned.

I woudnt be surprised to see China rise up in power soon.

[Correction]

And no, I dont know the exact method by which this money is loaned.

Bonds.

[Azkarin2]

^ That's what I was thinking. I got confused by the original wording. Especially with todays crappy markets and a 'flight to quality', the US bond market is investors safe haven. I don't think that countries will stop "lending" (buying bonds) due to our bad economy since their economy is probably equally as crappy. Even with our shitty current state, US Treasuries are considered by most to be the safest investment out there.

[SephYuyX]

Well, w/e~
I dont have a say in any of the matters, so doesnt really matter unfortunately.
zzz time.

[pohibaba]

There are no good solutions to this problem, unfortunately. Hopefully we learn our lesson and don't artificially inflate booms from now on.

[Enkidu]

I woudnt be surprised to see China rise up in power soon.

Meh. Net exporters usually don't fair so well in global recessions. See America circa the 1930's.

If I had to bet, I'd bet that China is in a worse position then America in 1-2 years.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Meh. Net exporters usually don't fair so well in global recessions. See America circa the 1930's.

If I had to bet, I'd bet that China is in a worse position then America in 1-2 years.

Yeah, China also invested heavily in our housing market. We brought down the world economy along with us so we're still on top of the whole shithole. China is scrambling as well as Europe, the main beef we have with Iran isn't about nukes, it's about Iran trying to change the currency to purchase oil globally from the dollar to the euro.

Every country that wants to purchase oil from OPEC countries need to first exchange to the dollar. It's another reason other countries are faltering - because they all rely on the dollar so heavily.

The rabbit hole goes pretty deep on this one, so Obama has a ton of different economists pulling him in different directions with theories and such on how to manage this.

Personally I say fuck the banks, they're not flooding the market with money on the last bailout, and they have a provision in this one saying they don't have to lend. And now Republicans are bitching that Obama wants to cap executive pay for CEO's running bailed out companies. It's an absolute shit show.

Wall Street's success doesn't ignite consumer confidence, easing our day to day burdens will. Get our minds off of job security and taxes, flood the actual market with money from the bottom up not the top down. I don't know how companies think that by laying people off its going to help them, it only freaks people out more and stops the flow of cash.

No ones coming around to homeowners saying "Hey, you made a bad decision. Let us pay off your house and you get to keep it. Sound good?"

Of course not, but these assfuck lenders are getting that treatment. "Oh you fucked up and drove a multi-billion dollar corporation into the ground. Atta boy, here's a couple bil, go ahead and give it another shot."

Absolute fucking nonsense. For every oppressive ideal we've fought and won, we're now at the point where we're being oppressed by money. We're forced to create debt as a consumer and judged based on our credit, which banks can make new rules and manipulate with zero oversight and control the entire country with an intangible product. Then when they fuck up; the consumer, this time as a taxpayer, bails them out?

The Dems have it right putting funding for school programs and science and industry. These will work because it creates jobs and gives the resources to demand and flow into other industries. Putting more money into defunct banks with bad policies is not the answer. Let them fall apart, let the government buy them, fire the people running them and nationalize credit. It's very hard to take advantage of people when no profit is at stake. The horrible policies of the 80's and 90's are turning to a head and becoming very transparent, I can't believe there's even a debate about this.

[Demosthenes11]

nationalize credit ;|

[Anton]

the tl;dr version.

Canadians win.

[Rockstaru]

But they're still Canadian, so they still lose.

[Beckwin]

GOP in the Bush years: massive spending on "fighting terror" coupled with massive tax cuts for the rich and corporations means America is on the path to greatness and freedom and everything good in the world

GOP in the Age of Obama: omg massive spending means disaster for amurrica, great depression part deux incoming oh gawd

[Boyiee]

I think McCain and a few others suggested a plan that is similar but takes out a few hundred bil, think it cuts it in half, since they feel that the extra half Obama is putting in wont create jobs.

So... there has been suggestions... You just aren't hearing them, or reading them. There is a channel where you can watch this stuff you know.