Introducing the Square Enix Security Token

[ryskar]

Holy shit, that avatar is amazing

[Katlan]

Surprised they are just getting around to this, figured they would have been on the ball after Blizz released one a while back. It's a great idea considering the abundance of key loggers/ect... around and how easy it is to acquire one even when being extremely careful

[Seraph]

Edit: Seraph, according to what you say, anyone who tries something new for the first time is stupid since there would be no information beforehand to know know the ramifications of your actions. All the people who explore new content are stupid since they don't know the effects of their actions right? Also, you changed your definition of stupid. Argument about semantics? Yes. Sadly, you're the one who keeps bringing it up.

You are implying that people cannot ask for advice or instruction on how to use this new experience properly. The near and dear acronym is 'RTFM'. It is no longer ignorance when it is your own fault for not knowing better. 'Aw, he didn't know any better' stops being applicable past a certain point.


Edit: Either way, this new Security Token is nothing but a good thing.

[Absolutely Virtue]

I'm 7 pages too late, but I'm in before SE releases and entire collectible series of these things with Chocobos and Black Mages and all the other shit the fanboys obsess over. Nothing will quench their thirst for owning more THINGS. If you ever get around to moving out of your parents' house, you're going to learn that packing up all that shit takes fucking FOREVER.

[Araelus]

Actually, Square seems kind of strange in this regard, but they don't release nearly as many THINGS as the market demands.

I hope you're not implying that a useful SecurID tag is just another THING people will purchase because they like to collect THINGS they ostensibly buy with money they earned, and besides investment, insurance payments, and charitable donations, what else is money for but to buy THINGS?

[Absolutely Virtue]

I'm saying that the things you own end up owning you. I'm a pretty deep guy. And I like taking cheap shots at people who derive satisfaction from material objects. I think they're silly.

[Seraph]

I'm saying that the things you own end up owning you. I'm a pretty deep guy. And I like taking cheap shots at people who derive satisfaction from material objects. I think they're silly.

You typing your posts with your mind?

[Araelus]

Objects a person possesses end up "owning them" only if certain conditions are met. Everyone serves something or someone. A strong-willed person or someone who has a proper perspective does not end up owned by the things they own. Be careful who you are preaching to about avoiding the wrong masters.

/brb getting my Dostoevsky on

[DancingEdge]

VeriSign - Security (SSL Certificates), Intelligent Communications, Domain Name Services, and Identity Protection

Verisign uses shit like this.

You give RMT way too much credit if you think they could crack it.

[Absolutely Virtue]

/brb getting my Dostoevsky on

lemme guess... The Idiot?

ha!

[Yugl]

You are implying that people cannot ask for advice or instruction on how to use this new experience properly.

And how did those people who give advice or instructions get their information? From other people? Ok so where did they get their information? At some point someone has to take actions without knowing the ramifications of their actions. That's the point I'm trying to make. It's relevant since you suggest that using a computer without knowing the ramifications is just as stupid as using anything else without knowing the consequences.

Using a computer without knowing how it works or the ramifications of what you are doing is just as stupid as using anything else and not knowing how it works.

So unless you're willing to concede that someone who tries something new is stupid, in which case my last post still stands, then you're working with a flawed definition.

It is no longer ignorance when it is your own fault for not knowing better. 'Aw, he didn't know any better' stops being applicable past a certain point.

This in a reworded format would actually be a better definition than the ones your formerly presented. The only difference between you and many others is when to place fault on the person for not knowing. To some extent, there should be some common knowledge about how to protect your computer. However, you forget that advances in technology are far more rapid than they previously were. In addition, today's society is heavily reliant on such technology. The problem with that is that older people who need new technology in order to work are not completely familiar with the risks, yet they must persist in using said technology in order to maintain income. It's similar to the switch from manufacturing to service sector activities. The difference is that you cannot rely on old methods in this technological world. Sure, they can receive training and instructions on how to use the technology, but when you consider the age and biological limitations (Remember the capacity to retain fluid memory decreases with age), you're placing heavy expectations on older workers.

That generation difference is where I call BS to your claims of stupidity. Young people are familiar with technology because we've grown up around it. Sure, they tend to have more virus problems than older people, but that has more to do with the difference in behavior than it has to do with not setting up virus protections and noscript. In addition to the elderly, there are young people who mostly see technology and computers as modern day typewriter. These people are at risk too because they have to use the computer for academic purposes without becoming familiar with the device.

Overall, the point is that some people aren't familiar with computers not because they choose not to become familiar, but because they try to become familiar with the computer in an unreasonable circumstance. That is why I disagree with you when you say someone is stupid because they put themselves in a situation where their ignorance has negative consequences.

Knowingly putting yourself in a situation where your ignorance has negative consequences is stupid.

Since you've presented this definition of stupid and tied to situations unrelated to computers, you're suggesting that anyone who has suffered from negative consequences is stupid. Now I generally wouldn't think of "Knowingly putting yourself in a situation" in such a broad sense, but based on example that sleekmotorwurkz provided and your suggestion that it applies to situations beyond computers, it seems that it was intended to be that way.

And of course these keys are nothing but good news (Unless you get hacked).

[Araelus]

lemme guess... The Idiot?

ha!

Those who have read the tale of Myshkin know what the title refers to. If you want to keep playing this game, kindly take it to PMs.

--

I think the whole "but if people use this new technology wrong, it will be detrimental! oh noes" has been done to death, guys.

We still don't know if Square is using the proper formats but if they are then the OTP system is the best way to log into FFXI.

So it might cost $5? There's already a barrier to entry in terms of the monthly fee. While the security update should be free, what's the big deal?

Why is this thread still going on.

[Katarzyna]

Why is this thread still going on.

There's a very fascinating debate about the difference between stupidity and ignorance. And by fascinating, I mean overdone.

[Spekkio]

a knife can be misused by cutting with the wrong side, or even used incorrectly can harm the wielder if they grasp it by the wrong end or swing it wildly. neither is it mandated to be able to eat dinner as you could use the side of your fork or even just your teeth to tear your meal into bitesize chunks. despite this, the number of dinner table auto-eviscerations are remarkably few and far between when common sense is applied. while not everyone will feel the need to use this newfangled knife in addition to their trusty staples of fork and spoon, when used correctly by those that understand the concept of a "handle" they can be an effective tool in efficiently enjoying a meal.

[Araelus]

There's a very fascinating debate about the difference between stupidity and ignorance. And by fascinating, I mean overdone.

Oh, mm, in that case, carry on. Overcooked semantics are always delicious. Here, I'll throw something into the pot, whynot.

Let me explain a little: Certain things are bad so far as they go, such as pain, and no one, not even a lunatic, calls a tooth-ache good in itself; but a knife which cuts clumsily and with difficulty is called a bad knife, which it certainly is not. It is only not so good as other knives to which men have grown accustomed. The coarsest and bluntest knife which ever broke a pencil into pieces instead of sharpening it is a good thing in so far as it is a knife. It would have appeared a miracle in the Stone Age. What we call a bad knife is a good knife not good enough for us. A knife is never bad except on such rare occasions as that in which it is neatly and scientifically planted in the middle of one's back.

Thank you to Spekkio (the Master of War!) for mentioning a knife, by the by.

the number of dinner table auto-eviscerations

I laughed. But that was a good example.

[Seraph]

[Whole Bunch Of Stuff]

Sure, for your really unnecessarily long post, I agree the first group of people to ever try things generally do not deserve the classification of 'stupid'. That goes into the clasification of exploration, or diving into the unknown. This assumes that the new territory is in fact, unknown.

However, if you are implying that computers, the Internet, PlayOnline, or FFXI are new entities with no reasonable way to learn more about them before you dive in and potentially screw yourself, perhaps you are lapsing into stupidity yourself. There are countless places and people you can approach to become better informed on how all of those things work, and they are all well within the grasp of anyone with this level of technology. To imply otherwise is idiotic.

I think you either got burned yourself, and are trying to cover your own ass, or just like to play word games and argue semantics. With the level of information available in the modern age, it is getting more and more difficult to hide behind the curtain of 'ignorance'. This isn't space exploration, this isn't deep sea diving, this isn't experimental particle collisions. It's checking email, surfing the web, and playing video games. People need to take the time to understand what they are doing, and accept more responsibility instead of being stupid. 'Oh, I didn't know' is usually more realistically 'Oh, I couldn't be bothered to find out'.

How about this: "Using any tool without seriously attempting to become educated (assuming education exists) on how it works and the risks it can pose to you is stupid." That make you happy in the pants?

[Yugl]

However, if you are implying that computers, the Internet, PlayOnline, or FFXI are new entities with no reasonable way to learn more about them before you dive in and potentially screw yourself, perhaps you are lapsing into stupidity yourself. There are countless places and people you can approach to become better informed on how all of those things work, and they are all well within the grasp of anyone with this level of technology. To imply otherwise is idiotic.

I was not implying that the information isn't bountiful in today's society. I was pointing out a flaw with the usage of that term.

The other half of my post was to suggest the reason someone might use a computer without full knowledge is when they are in a situation which demands that they use such technology within a limited time period. For the most part, initial usage of technology that is new to certain individuals will be met with consequences. However, remember they are in a situation where they can neither adequately learn the entire scope of technology nor can they simply refuse to use said technology.

Yeah that's right. I summed up my post in two paragraphs.

I think you either got burned yourself, and are trying to cover your own ass, or just like to play word games and argue semantics.

I don't like to play word games and argue semantics, but I do believe in consistency when using terms. No I have not had computer problems, especially those relating to viruses and those sort of problems.

With the level of information available in the modern age, it is getting more and more difficult to hide behind the curtain of 'ignorance'. This isn't space exploration, this isn't deep sea diving, this isn't experimental particle collisions. It's checking email, surfing the web, and playing video games. People need to take the time to understand what they are doing, and accept more responsibility instead of being stupid. 'Oh, I didn't know' is usually more realistically 'Oh, I couldn't be bothered to find out'.

Agreed, they should attempt to learn as much as they can before using the computer. However, they may not learn enough due to time constraints or simply because they don't have the full information.

How about this: "Using any tool without seriously attempting to become educated (assuming education exists) on how it works and the risks it can pose to you is stupid." That make you happy in the pants?

See, that wasn't so difficult now was it?

[Riel]

I predict that this will cost around $30 US.

[Vodou]

I predict that this will cost around $30 US.

Based upon what?

It took a few minutes online to see that these cost $5 from one company (Entrust.) It took 30 more seconds to see that Blizzard was charging $6.50 for theirs.

Try the internet next time. It seems really cool.

[Silenka]

I'm guessing 7 or 10 bucks just because SE likes 7s and 10s.