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  1. #1
    Formerly Raitoken
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    Question for you programmers out there...

    This next semester I am looking to start taking more of the core classes for my Computer Science degree which will involve coding/scripting and whatnot.

    Problem being it that I have never taken any class in High-school or done any programming on my own and barely know anything about it which may seem odd but its what I want to do.

    Anyways I got to thinking and I wanted to know if some of the BG members here who work in the field of computer engineering/science might know of some books I can pick up and read over the summer to sort of familiarize myself with a language and the basics so I don't walk into the class and not have a damn clue what the hell is going on which I feel might happen even for a beginning class.

    I have already talked with a few people in the industry and they mentioned learning java/xml/c++ and try writing an addon for World of Warcraft and work on maintaining it through patches, troubleshooting bugs and keeping it up-to-date is an excellent way to get started with how the languages work and what is involved for programming.

    I was hoping there might be a few reccommended readings you might suggest to start with so I can get a head start on my upcoming classes, as the only one I am aware of is the "______ book for dummies" series which I have tried with other things but it honestly sucks as there is too much bullshit reading and jokes in those that distract you from what your really trying to do.

    So anyone able to help me out?

  2. #2
    Relic Horn
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    Tony Gaddis's Starting out with Java: Early Objects if you can find it. It should last for your first two CS classes if you do take java.

    Also, download or bookmark your language of choice's API
    Java's can be found at http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/

  3. #3
    Formerly Raitoken
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korietsu View Post
    Tony Gaddis's Starting out with Java: Early Objects if you can find it. It should last for your first two CS classes if you do take java.

    Also, download or bookmark your language of choice's API
    Java's can be found at Java Platform SE 6
    Sounds like a good start, although its probably bad if I have to google "API" >.>

  4. #4
    Hyperion Cross
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    I don't think you should spend money on books. Borrow them from the library, sure, but don't buy them if possible. From my own experience and noticing other people's experience, they buy the book(s), attempt to read it seriously, and then after 2 hours it sits on the shelves as "reference" material.

    Best thing to do is if you do buy/borrow books or anything is to follow the tutorials/stuff where it gets you to actually type up some code and test it. Just by reading, especially with no programming background, will be incredibly difficult and potentially boring.

    Books are however good reference sources, i.e. code samples or a glossary of what X function does.

  5. #5
    CoP Dynamis
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    Imo you should try with easy stuff to get in touch with coding. It's more about making stuff than reading books.
    Find an tutorial to learn how to make html pages, and makes a few simple pages. That's really basic, it's not really coding.

    Then search for more tutorials and start adding some javascript in it. At the same time, try to find tutorials to learn what an algorythm is and what is and how the operators and coding logic works.

    Once this is done, try to get in touch with Php and MySql. Unlike Javascript, Php is a real language ( and it looks like a lot other "serious" languages). Learn how to generate html though php, learn how to make a database with mySql etc etc...
    Once you manage this quite well, try object programming with php, it's one step beyond, but way more powerful.

    I advice to do web coding because it's really visual, and you get results and errors way faster than you do with normal coding. Well personally I find it way more accessible than real software coding ( but then depends on everyone).

    Though, if your class is for beginners, you can also choose not to worry about this, because you'll learn all the basics there, and if the teachers are good, you'll also learn methodology to be efficient and clean, which is probably the more important thing to learn ( more important than languages imo).

    Also, don't decide you wanna do coding if you've never done any before. Coding can be extremely boring/annoying, I personally hate it, it's like doing accountancy... but well some people really love this.

  6. #6
    Silly Hat Connoisseur
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    I also recommend doing some web programming: you get pretty instant gratification and it's the sort of scripting languages you'd use for WoW addons. PHP, Ruby, or Python would probably be a good way to start.

    I learned how to program through writing an online journal program back in about 1998 in PHP3. It really helped me to prepare for more hardcore programming classes that I was introduced to at uni (I was in much the same boat as you).

  7. #7
    Formerly Raitoken
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    Well I want to go for game design and unless I enter the industry as an artist I will need to know coding at some point so I can understand how things work and apply accordingly.

    I am not sure if its what I want to be doing since I hear it can be very math intensive/boring at times but I am leaving my options open to switch majors if need be.

    Also as far as tutorials go, anyone have any recommendations on guides, a website, or shall I just google it?

  8. #8
    Silly Hat Connoisseur
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    Yeah if you want to do games programming you need to do a lot of maths. A lot of the games programming you will learn involves starting from scratch, building 3D objects etc.

    At any rate, you probably won't encounter this sort of stuff in your first year, and you have to walk before you can run! So I'd recommend at least getting the principles of programming under your belt: functions, classes, loops, etc. first before you worry too much about maths & games programming!

    Go to any of these languages' websites and they usually have a pretty good tutorial section. Python, Ruby, and PHP all have good tutorials.

  9. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by TheStig View Post
    I don't think you should spend money on books.
    +1. Also, any entry level comp sci course assumes you have zero coding ability whatsoever. You should be fine going in blind.

    I also would not concentrate on a particular language, as a good comp sci course should give you the theoretical background which will allow you to pick up any high level language.

  10. #10

    If you've never programmed, don't take computer science.

    Seriously.

    If you don't already know, you won't learn in college. It is something you have to be able to teach yourself because there is so much to learn. College is just for the piece of paper.

  11. #11
    CoP Dynamis
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    Nah.
    Sure you can learn by yourself, and you will learn a good chunk by yourself, but school teaches you the way to make it clean, clear, readable, efficient.
    Even if you already know programming, it's still worth it to learn the basics, because you might be doing it wrong ( just take a look at some wow addons: some have tons of useless code slowing down computer performances).

  12. #12

    I don't know. When I went to college I didn't learn anything and all of the people in my classes who didn't already know how to program ended up dropping out or having to practically cheat their way through. I made a lot of money helping people with homework, lol.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syntex View Post
    Well I want to go for game design and unless I enter the industry as an artist I will need to know coding at some point so I can understand how things work and apply accordingly.

    I am not sure if its what I want to be doing since I hear it can be very math intensive/boring at times but I am leaving my options open to switch majors if need be.

    Also as far as tutorials go, anyone have any recommendations on guides, a website, or shall I just google it?
    Pretty much all languages use the same shit with a different syntax, if that makes any sense. Learn about vars, strings, loops, Boolean, etc. Picking up an easy language like VB6/.net or PHP (I suggest the latter.) will help you understand the basics of pretty much most languages..

    Also, why are going to go into something you've never done before? It seems silly you're deadset on doing something that is very hard to do. Take a few programming classes and see if you can handle it, or better yet, start writing some code right now.

    There is no excuse why you shouldn't be writing something right now, there is everything you need out there to start.

  14. #14
    Silly Hat Connoisseur
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    I hadn't programmed before uni and I did fine. I made sure I paid attention in class and showed up to all the lectures and tutorials and did my homework though. University is all about what you put in. You don't get anything out if you don't put anything in.

    I ended up majoring in computer science and now have a PhD in a computer related area as well as several years of industry programming experience so I don't think I did too badly considering I hadn't programmed prior

  15. #15
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devek View Post
    I don't know. When I went to college I didn't learn anything and all of the people in my classes who didn't already know how to program ended up dropping out or having to practically cheat their way through. I made a lot of money helping people with homework, lol.
    I know plenty of people who came to Digipen not knowing how to code who are now great programmers. Of course I know even more who dropped out the first year...

    It's one of those things you can never be good at if you don't have talent, but not everyone who has the aptitude has the initiative to learn on their own.

    Oh and conversely, I know people who knew how to code previously and claim to learn nothing from classes who write horrible unreadable hack code.

  16. #16
    Formerly Raitoken
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    I have talked to a few people in the industry and from what I gather there are 3 ways into the gaming industry. You can get in either as an artist, programmer, or management of some sort.

    If you are not making clay models of stuff or drawing insane things on paper then you have 2 choices and the management side usually has little to do with the actual production of the game and more of the behind the scenes part like marketing and human resources ect.

    Every other aspect to being in the production of the game will require some knowledge of coding or at least how it works so you can design things accordingly.

    Either way if it turns out being something I hate then I have the option of switching majors and going into something else but computers have always interested me and I find it amazing that they can take a series of numbers and turn out a game. What is also helpful is with a computer science or similar degree it allows me a lot of job choices in and out of the gaming industry.

    Well keep the posts coming, some good info here from both sides of the fence.

  17. #17
    Canada
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    Start with Python. Learn to write neat code. Then learn C. If you want to do game design, OO isn't going to help you as much as lower level languages will.

  18. #18

    Quote Originally Posted by Skjie View Post
    Start with Python. Learn to write neat code. Then learn C. If you want to do game design, OO isn't going to help you as much as lower level languages will.
    nearly done with my CS degree and I haven't even touched python yet lol

    Curious to know how python gives an advantage over C/C++ for games... In the projects I've done, Object-Oriented languages have been awesome for managing what's going on along with game states and statuses.

  19. #19

    Python's strength is that it can be embedded in other languages.

    You can easily embed it in C and Java and then change the python scripts while the program is running.

    For example, the MUD I wrote 10 years ago was in Java but all the commands were python scripts. It was cool because some of the people doing it with me were not that good and they could just play with the script till it did what they wanted and there was no danger of them crashing the MUD. The performance wasn't too bad, it could run 40,000 scripts/sec on the p4 server we had back then.

  20. #20

    Quote Originally Posted by Gere View Post
    I know plenty of people who came to Digipen not knowing how to code who are now great programmers. Of course I know even more who dropped out the first year...

    It's one of those things you can never be good at if you don't have talent, but not everyone who has the aptitude has the initiative to learn on their own.

    Oh and conversely, I know people who knew how to code previously and claim to learn nothing from classes who write horrible unreadable hack code.
    Is it true that it's best to go to Digipen without a sense of smell? What is the typical student like?

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