Game of Thrones (TV talk) (CLEARLY MARK AND TAG BOOK SPOILERS IF YOU POST THEM) (READ FIRST POST)

[Tyrath]

Well yeah. Just not many targs left is the issue. The problem with using targ claim is that that gives Dany a bigger claim to the throne, so you have to fall back on right of conquest when it comes to her claims.

[Zetanio]

Also, I'm ignoring the right of conquest here. Just going by the Targaryen succession laws.

[Zetanio]

Well yeah. Just not many targs left is the issue. The problem with using targ claim is that that gives Dany a bigger claim to the throne, so you have to fall back on right of conquest when it comes to her claims.

Well yeah, she's always got the best claim. Although the newer Targaryen laws have EXTREME male preference.

[Zetanio]

It goes

King
King's Younger Brother
King's Son
King's Daughter's Son
King's Oldest Daughter
King's Daughter

Failing all of that, it defaults to the last daughter's family. Which is the Martell's in this case.

[TheDirtyHobo]

King
King's Younger Brother
King's Son

That can't be right. Otherwise it would have defaulted to Renly over Joffrey.

And that's before bringing Stannis into the mix which would kill the idea that Robert was anything but conquest.

[Gwynplaine]

As a show-onry viewer, what are the limits of this magical resurrection bullcrap? Why can't all the dead people just be brought back to life? Is it just like a thing that works only when the lord of light is feelin' it?

[BaneTheBrawler]

Martell is dead and his line is ended in the show.

when a line fails, succession reverts UP the heirarchy, so Dorne would be crown lands, basically, unless one of doran's lords can exert some claim of kinship (they likely can).

kevan's only remaining son is Lancel, who's now sworn to the Church, and can't/won't inherit. Plus kevan's not really interested in power for its own sake so he'd prolly turn down the crown. all the baratheons are dead. it would come down to a very, very tenuous claim from margaery and the tyrells vs a very very tenuous claim from cersei and the lannisters, with either the queens claiming in their own names or claiming in the name of some random cousins they dredged up. of course, there might be some stormlords who could claim kinship through the baratheons, but then they'd be pitting themselves against the tyrells and/or lannisters so no one's crazy enough to do it, which is also a factor in making a claim. And naturally, Dany has the best claim of all, but she can't very well press her claim from Essos, so she's a non-contender until she crosses the sea.


The War of the Five Kings is over. The War of the Three Queens is only beginning!


edit: new posts. re: rez, we don't know. magic is super vague and sketchy in GoT, and always, ALWAYS carries a price. Dany sacrificed her womb and child to save Drogo's body. Lord Beric lost memories of his old life every time he died. Melisandre didn't want to use Stannis's seed to cast shadows anymore because "his fire is too low."

[Tyrath]

As a show-onry viewer, what are the limits of this magical resurrection bullcrap? Why can't all the dead people just be brought back to life? Is it just like a thing that works only when the lord of light is feelin' it?

Because Thoros only managed it by accident and even Melisandre didn't think she could do it until she tried. Also as Thoros and Beric showed, every time you come back you're only a shadow of your former self. We'll have to see what happens with Jon.

[Zetanio]

That can't be right. Otherwise it would have defaulted to Renly over Joffrey.

And that's before bringing Stannis into the mix which would kill the idea that Robert was anything but conquest.

I wrote those two backwards. My bad.

[Zetanio]

Martell is dead and his line is ended in the show.

when a line fails, succession reverts UP the heirarchy, so Dorne would be crown lands, basically, unless one of doran's lords can exert some claim of kinship (they likely can).

kevan's only remaining son is Lancel, who's now sworn to the Church, and can't/won't inherit. Plus kevan's not really interested in power for its own sake so he'd prolly turn down the crown. all the baratheons are dead. it would come down to a very, very tenuous claim from margaery and the tyrells vs a very very tenuous claim from cersei and the lannisters, with either the queens claiming in their own names or claiming in the name of some random cousins they dredged up. of course, there might be some stormlords who could claim kinship through the baratheons, but then they'd be pitting themselves against the tyrells and/or lannisters so no one's crazy enough to do it, which is also a factor in making a claim. And naturally, Dany has the best claim of all, but she can't very well press her claim from Essos, so she's a non-contender until she crosses the sea.


The War of the Five Kings is over. The War of the Three Queens is only beginning!


edit: new posts. re: rez, we don't know. magic is super vague and sketchy in GoT, and always, ALWAYS carries a price. Dany sacrificed her womb and child to save Drogo's body. Lord Beric lost memories of his old life every time he died. Melisandre didn't want to use Stannis's seed to cast shadows anymore because "his fire is too low."

There are a LOT of claims in the book, Martell being at the top because he isn't dead. I won't bother farking about with them in here though.

It will be Queen vs Dowager Queen fo sho.

Will be funny if Dany gets knocked up before jumping the ocean. If it's a boy, she's only ever going to be Regent.

[Tyrath]

Dany can't have any more kids yo.

[Zetanio]

Dany can't have any more kids yo.

Yeah she can brah.

BOOK STUFF:

Spoiler: show

That moonblood after the Drogon thing brah. She ripe.

[Wulfgang]

Kevan isn't a Baratheon. No claim.

Margaery isn't a Baratheon, so any kids can't have a claim.

Renly, mebbe Stannis, Robert, and all Cersei's kids are all dead. You have to go up the chain a bit higher to locate family.

Robert Baratheon was the king. To the world as it stands currently, Tommen is his child and thus the clear heir and now ruler. If Tommen were to conceive a child with Margaery, it would be the first in line to the crown as a grandson to Robert Baratheon.

We know the reality of Tommen's birth, but that succession line would hold in King's Landing at this point in the narrative.

If Tommen dies before siring a child, I believe you have to go back to the Targ line as the Baratheon male line is gone (Gendry was never recognized; could fight for claim, but kid seems gone from the narrative at this point). This is where a lot of the R+L=J drama comes from IIRC; if Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, I believe he is technically first in line (potentially over Robert in the beginning, but Robert reset the throne succession through force, which makes me question whether anyone would care about the Targ line at this point). I am too out of touch these days; I used to know this better.

EDIT: Forgot about Robert having a Targ grandmother at Zet noted; while that helped cement his claim, I think he would have been king regardless after marrying Cersei. The other rebels, namely Jon Arryn and Ned, wanted Robert to be king regardless.

[Cichy]

As a show-onry viewer, what are the limits of this magical resurrection bullcrap? Why can't all the dead people just be brought back to life? Is it just like a thing that works only when the lord of light is feelin' it?

Basically it's not a 100% you can rez someone and there is pretty much always human sacrifice involved. Danny did not hatch dragons because she's special, she hatched them because she sacrificed drogo, her son, and mira mazdur for them even though she wasn't aware of that. Only death can pay for life.

[Gilgameshx]

What was to stop stannis from claiming the throne over his brother? He has the same targ blood as Robert and he's older. He also participated in the war.

Also, why is it considered Robert's rebellion. Lyanna wasn't his wife yet and after lyanna was "kidnapped", neds dad and brother were murdered by the mad king which kick started the fighting. Even though ned didn't want it, he had every right to the throne and if Robert can step in and sit it, why couldn't stannis?

[Anoat]

I think the Mad King had years of resentment and anger built up among the other lords, they just never acted. So when Robert started organizing people and actually fighting, everyone else who had been too afraid suddenly was all FUCK YEAH LETS DO THIS, so Robert gets credited for being the spark of rebellion.

[Gabai]

He has the same targ blood as Robert and he's older.

Robert was the firstborn, not Stannis.

[Snprphnx]

What was to stop stannis from claiming the throne over his brother? He has the same targ blood as Robert and he's older. He also participated in the war.

Also, why is it considered Robert's rebellion. Lyanna wasn't his wife yet and after lyanna was "kidnapped", neds dad and brother were murdered by the mad king which kick started the fighting. Even though ned didn't want it, he had every right to the throne and if Robert can step in and sit it, why couldn't stannis?

Robert was first born of the Baratheons. Stannis was born two years later.

[Gilgameshx]

Well then I'm retarded. Always thought stannis was the elder. I think the show distorted his age for me

[Gilgameshx]

Sand snakes plot is stupid then because if myrcella was alive and they killed tommen, myrcella takes over, granting Margery isn't pregnant. And if she's married to trystane, he becomes king? I know it's a lot of what ifs, but if that's how the succession played out, their plot was incredibly stupid to kill myrcella.