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Thread: SMN and End Game     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1
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    SMN and End Game

    Ok, I'm a newbie SMN as far as endgame go. Could anyone help me get started on what to Avatar to use and what BP to use on HNMs like Dark Ixion, ToAU HNMs/Tier 4 ZNMs, Jailor of Temperance, etc.

    Also, advice on merits please. THANKS!

  2. #2
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    Well, Its pretty well known Predator Claws excels in most situations. However on more Evasive NMs Spinning Dive is Reliable and Accurate.

    High DEF mobs (Or mobs with Physical Damage resistance), best to use Diabolos' Nether Blast, or if you have a Decent SMN Skill build, Merits, and such, use the level 75 BP's Which are utterly amazing now, Being able to do 1300 DMG to JoFortitude is funny as hell > - >

    Anything where the mobs Eva/DEF isn't Mindblowingly high (I.E Fortitude's DEF), Predator Claws and Spinning Dive excel beyond the other BPs.

    However, the level 75BPs, if geared/merited correctly*, are Far better on most enemies.

    *Magical Attack Merits, SMN Skill+ Gear with Capped SMN magic, Possible Summoning Skill Magic Merits, etc. However the biggest boost is Just Putting 2 or more Merits on the Particular Bloodpact. I prefer Shiva, But thats just me, in the end they should all do about the same Damage, Some people do Physical but with the new boost to 75BPs its just too good to pass up, Breaking 1k Nukes on JoL as a SMN is just amazingly fun ~.~ even though it could kill your DD's =P

  3. #3
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    In terms of merits, opinions are gonna be split with the majority saying to most likely take up Magic Attack Bonus and Magic Accuracy with the changes due to the recent patch. I myself however prefer Physical Attack/Accuracy.

    In terms of which pacts to use, it's gonna be situational. If the mob is evasive I would use a single-hit Blood Pact Rage. Spinning Dive is usually the best but I've gotten some weird results with Mountain Buster sometimes coming out higher. If the mob isn't particularly evasive you will tend to get the best results from Predator Claws.

    If Defense is high on the other end, you'll probably want to use magical based BPR's. In most cases, until you get merits into on of the merited ones, this'll come in the form of Diabolos' Nether Blast which has an abnormally low resist rate yielding a near-constant 450-550 damage.

    Dark Ixion, I'm afraid to say, I have no experience with so you'll have to get advice on that regard from someone else.

    For Jailer of Temperance just remember that Predator Claws and Spinning Dive are Slashing damage, whereas Rush, Flaming Crush, Mountain Buster, and Chaotic Strike are Blunt. Sadly, and confusingly, none of the avatars have access to Piercing.

  4. #4
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    If you really gear your smn for it, PClaw anything that isnt magic resistant. Evasive mobs be damned, you can still PClaw it lol The only time you'd do otherwise (physically) would be to use blunt (instead of slashing, no piercing available really) to get dmg+ bonus from mob weakness.

    Prepatch, some mobs just got better returns from using NBlast because of outright magic resist (which is why you probably brought smn to DD in the first place), and the physical dmg resistance is high. At that point you'd just rely on NBlast to chip away, consistently and hate-free. The dmg was never as good as a PClaw, but because the situation barred PClaw from use, NBlast was your best choice.

    Postpatch, I don't know. I've been considering changing merits to atk/matk, given that i merited smn magic skill which should(ha) account for the accuracy loss from acc/macc, and the advent of new gear that has smn skill+ on it, and pet acc to replace my lost merits. Then, it seems like smns who are devoted, can push both physical and magical dmg to high levels without risk of miss/resist. I want to do merits for other jobs (that need the merits) before I go and drop merits I like. I don't know if I like the acp body with acc/atk15 on it, it seemed like without the crit being THERE, there was much, much less crit. I've only had 1 so far since doing the seed crystal fight using the body, and that makes me sad because I know the potential is probably greater with doublet (and augmenting the acp body for nukes and using appropriately.)

    But i'd say stick to SDive/MBuster until you get enough gear/merits to back up the acc needed for PClaw deliciousness :3

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    Wasn't playing attention to the recent update, but I assume from the posts here that Avatars' acc and m acc got boost significantly? Iirc, Carby and Fenrir have piecing moves though. I got ACP body for my other job. So, I won't have it for SMN. I do have a few nice rare/ex for SMN though.

    So for group two merits, what should I go after? Are they all pretty much the same since they are magic damage?

  6. #6
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    All of the 75 merit pacts have the about the same base damage just different elements so it really depends on what you do in end-game, and your play style. It might be a good idea to have something to burst with light and something to burst with dark. Don't forget about Titan's Geocrush which has the added effect of stun and is the only earth based stun in game I believe. Shiva might be nice too since you could Rush > Heavenly Strike. Just some ideas to throw out there.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    All of the 75 merit pacts have the about the same base damage just different elements so it really depends on what you do in end-game, and your play style. It might be a good idea to have something to burst with light and something to burst with dark. Don't forget about Titan's Geocrush which has the added effect of stun and is the only earth based stun in game I believe. Shiva might be nice too since you could Rush > Heavenly Strike. Just some ideas to throw out there.
    So I guess I can do 2-3 of each and not pick just 2 and do 5 each, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natara View Post
    Wasn't playing attention to the recent update, but I assume from the posts here that Avatars' acc and m acc got boost significantly? Iirc, Carby and Fenrir have piecing moves though. I got ACP body for my other job. So, I won't have it for SMN. I do have a few nice rare/ex for SMN though.

    So for group two merits, what should I go after? Are they all pretty much the same since they are magic damage?
    Crescent Fang is Piercing damage, but it's base damage is so low anyway it's hardly worth it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natara View Post
    So I guess I can do 2-3 of each and not pick just 2 and do 5 each, correct?
    This is not a particularly wise decision, no.

    Just fill in with PC or NB if your strong merit pacts won't land.

  10. #10
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    I was tempted to split it up more (the tier 2's)... but big numbers are just too tempting...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natara View Post
    So I guess I can do 2-3 of each and not pick just 2 and do 5 each, correct?
    Well looking at some info provided through testing which i found on KI(lulz?) damage/merits correlation for the merit pacts with 0 merits in avatar magic attack bonus are:

    Merits -- Damage
    1 -- 733
    2 -- 823
    3 -- 913
    4 -- 1004
    5 -- 1094

    I know all those pacts are pretty but can you pull higher numbers with the merit pacts versus the level 70 physical pacts with only 2-3 levels in them? Mostly depends on the monster you are fighting. Keep in mind you can probably up the damage on those by like 100 with full magic attack merits; even more with the ACP body augments if you use that. In my view it would be better to max out 2 pacts for the most damage you can do without keeping avatar out to melee up TP (while also giving TP to monsters) but to each his own.

    Personally I'm working on Heavenly Strike and Thunderstorm 5/5 along with magic and physical attack 5/5. I'm pretty sure you can make up the difference in the accuracy merits through gear and summoning magic merits 8/8.

  12. #12

    Does anyone have conclusive proof that spinning dive is any more accurate than predator claws? In my admittedly limited experience, it's not. Multihit vs 1hit both require accuracy equally if they have the same base:

    3 hits at 500 damage each, 66.6% accuracy: Average 2 hits landed, 1000 damage
    1 hit at 1500 damage, 66.6% accuracy: average 2/3 a hit landed, 1000 damage.. you lose all your damage if you full whiff a spinning dive

    Or, to put it a different way: You might miss 3 times as many claws hits, but each miss is only 1/3 as much penalty as missing a dive. All this aside, a 3/3 claws does higher average damage than a 1/1 dive.. which would make it better in all situations unless dive has a significant built in acc bonus.

  13. #13
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    The best way I can put it is that on evasive shit it seems clear that SD/MB will put up full damage much more often than PC, while not missing any more often than PC puts up miss-150 crap.


    This is just from experience though, no official testing, and honestly at this point I can land all 3 hits consistently on everything that matters anyway.

  14. #14
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    OK pick 2 BPs and get them to level 5. For group 1, Avatar Magic Attack is a way to go.
    What about the other 5 merits in group 1? Physical Attack or Physical Acc if I don't have SMN magic merited?

  15. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorny View Post
    Does anyone have conclusive proof that spinning dive is any more accurate than predator claws? In my admittedly limited experience, it's not. Multihit vs 1hit both require accuracy equally if they have the same base:

    3 hits at 500 damage each, 66.6% accuracy: Average 2 hits landed, 1000 damage
    1 hit at 1500 damage, 66.6% accuracy: average 2/3 a hit landed, 1000 damage.. you lose all your damage if you full whiff a spinning dive

    Or, to put it a different way: You might miss 3 times as many claws hits, but each miss is only 1/3 as much penalty as missing a dive. All this aside, a 3/3 claws does higher average damage than a 1/1 dive.. which would make it better in all situations unless dive has a significant built in acc bonus.
    Do physical blood pacts share any other similar traits with weapon skills? Is it possible that the single-hit accuracy bonus is applied to Spinning Dive and Mountain Buster?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natara View Post
    OK pick 2 BPs and get them to level 5. For group 1, Avatar Magic Attack is a way to go.
    What about the other 5 merits in group 1? Physical Attack or Physical Acc if I don't have SMN magic merited?
    I'd go with physical accuracy merited if you don't have summoning magic merited. But then you might want to spend a few points in magic accuracy too since summoning magic over the cap provides accuracy to both physical and magic attacks. So yeah might be better to spread some merits around in category one, rather than maxing out 2 things without the summoning magic merits. Gotta love the diversity of the job :D

  17. #17
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    I am not one to describe a lot of stats and numbers, just experience and observation, but this is how I roll:

    Fafnir/Nidhogg: Spinning Dive/Predator Claws

    COP Wyrms:
    Tiamat: Garuda on ground/Diabolos in air
    Jorm: same as Tiamat
    Vrtra: Garuda/Leviathin

    Cerberus: Garuda/Leviathin, then after 40% Diabolos (cerb gets very resistant)

    Khimera: Garuda pretty much always, Khim is squishy.

    Dark Ixion: Leviathin/Garuda, can get resistant, also used Titan with some success.

    Kirin: Diabolos or the new Merited Magic Bloodpacts like Wind Blade.

    ZNM's:
    Nosferatu: Garuda- he is squishy too.
    Dea: Diabolos if kiting
    Marid: Garuda or Diabolos (if kiting)
    Puk: Garuda

    Sarameya: Garuda- this guy is VERy squishy, we bring 5-7 SMN's.

    Odin: Garuda/Leviathin, have seen Fenrir used to conserve more mp.

    I have capped smn magic skill, and have 5/5 in phy acc/attk. May switch later for magic bloodpacts, still deciding.

    My rule of thumb, try Garuda PC first, if you miss or do really low dmg, try leviathin. If its a kite fight or highly resistant use Diabolos for more consistency.

    Just my preference.

  18. #18

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuko_Asura View Post
    Do physical blood pacts share any other similar traits with weapon skills? Is it possible that the single-hit accuracy bonus is applied to Spinning Dive and Mountain Buster?
    This has always been my line of thinking.

  19. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuko_Asura View Post
    Do physical blood pacts share any other similar traits with weapon skills? Is it possible that the single-hit accuracy bonus is applied to Spinning Dive and Mountain Buster?
    It makes sense, I'm just curious if anyone has actually tested it since in my limitted experience they don't seem to.

  20. #20
    >The Implying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuko_Asura View Post
    Do physical blood pacts share any other similar traits with weapon skills? Is it possible that the single-hit accuracy bonus is applied to Spinning Dive and Mountain Buster?
    If you have a respectable amount of summoning skill gear (which is piss easy to get at 75... Evoker's Ring, Evoker's Horn, Summoner's Bracers, Summoning Torque, etc.), accuracy really shouldn't be a problem anyway.

    But for reference, yes, Bloodpacts function like weaponskills (Amnesia stops them from executing, prevents a summoner from commanding an avatar to Bloodpact, etc.), and Mountain Buster/Spinning Dive have always been more accurate than Bloodpacts like Predator Claws/Rush/Chaotic Strike.

    One thing you should remember is that even if your accuracy seems to suck, it's still better to go with a multi-hit Bloodpact than a single-hit one, because you'll at least do some damage, rather than missing entirely with single-hit Bloodpacts (which happens more often than you might think).

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