Advice for a new LS.

[Aristio]

Me and some friends are going to start a new sky/sea LS. It will be at most 16 people at events, since we want to keep it low number. We have our core jobs/members, so we are going to not shout for members and try to use word of mouth to recruit, if need be. I want some general advice on how to handle gil drops, and how to handle lotting system. I have a plan, but it's still in the making.

When farming sky god pops, if a member needs gear or an abjuration from the lesser god, we pop it with pop items and get the gear and seal. If no members wants the gear/abjuration, we sell the god pop and buy the seal, with the remaining gil split. When we have a Kirin Pop set, we will have a shout run, and use attendance points to decide the lot on the Osode. If a member wants abjuration, all but osode and the abjuration is freelot.

With sea gods, it will be the same thing. Selling Torques if no one needs and using the gil to buy the pops, while splitting the remaining gil with the members.

It's a work in progress, but any advice will be great.

Edit: Yes, I did a search and went through 20 pages, with no real answer for this.

[Terenyx]

When farming sky god pops, if a member needs gear or an abjuration from the lesser god, we pop it with pop items and get the gear and seal. If no members wants the gear/abjuration, we sell the god pop and buy the seal, with the remaining gil split. When we have a Kirin Pop set, we will have a shout run, and use attendance points to decide the lot on the Osode. If a member wants abjuration, all but osode and the abjuration is freelot.

My recommendation for the shout run (if I understand your intentions correctly) would be to offer whoever accepts an even distribution of any gil drops (members and those who accept to join) to have a reward system for non-members which is enticing enough for them to participate. I presume you're hoping to use the shout run as a way to also build members once you prove your capacity to kill what you're shouting for?

With sea gods, it will be the same thing. Selling Torques if no one needs and using the gil to buy the pops, while splitting the remaining gil with the members.

Selling the virtues and arranging for the sale of pop items to the equivalent of torques, ok.

How to handle gil drops? Just give an even distribution based on who's at the given event. Don't need to throw any x-factors into it. The hope for the non-member gil distribution is hopefully to entice them to be a part of your core and/or otherwise "keep them coming back for more" per se.

How to handle the lotting system? You already eluded to an attendance system. Attendance is generally the best idea, but you'll need something to balance it out imo.

FreeDKP.Org - Free DKP hosting for Guilds - EQdkp if you want a point system or something like it, there may be better sites, but I'm familiar with the DKP system so if you want something you can just plug people in and track it purely by attendance - there ya go.

I however think point-based systems only allow people with no lives to get all the shit the quickest. If you're perfectly fine with that and don't care about the potential gripes, again - use DKP.

If you're looking for a more involved system, you can try this formula I've used in the past:

Attendance (60%) + Job Relevance (30%) + Attitude/Perception (10%) = 100%

Attendance should be the most important thing still, it's the most measurable item and participation should weigh the heaviest. The job relevance measure allows you to make sure that the same person isn't always getting everything which becomes a major downfall for many starting shells (favoritism). The member selects one priority 75 job for being most geared and they can change it every 30-60 days (you decide the measure, if you're getting tons of loot, make it shorter, if it's taking a while to get decent drops for whatever reason, stretch it out so you can avoid being taken advantage of). The last 10% is just the x-factor to determine whether or not someone is deserving in your opinion. Separates the self-serving person from the person who goes the extra mile to make your LS better.

You can track attendance however you like, but I used an excel spreadsheet and tracked it by date and frequency.

Hope that will get you started and I'll check back to see if you have any feedback. Hope it's not the TL; DR kinda response, since you had searched through 20 pages, wanted to try to make it worth your while.

Good luck.

[Thorny]

Kirin is doable non-zerg with 12. I'd advise working with your members and getting better at it, as opposed to shouting and getting a bunch of shady people that likely won't listen and may ninja things.

[donnie]

i dont think you need any hints , your way is the correct way since your not shouting for random members.

all it boils down to is how is the synergy and how bound you are together as an LS. and no matter how the system seems fair , you will always get to road blocks , and it will go back to how members react to solve them.

[Xanthu]

Kirin is doable non-zerg with 12. I'd advise working with your members and getting better at it, as opposed to shouting and getting a bunch of shady people that likely won't listen and may ninja things.

I'd really like to hear this strategy. And can you do it without having w.legs paladin?

[Yugl]

Attendance (60%) + Job Relevance (30%) + Attitude/Perception (10%) = 100%

Attendance should be the most important thing still, it's the most measurable item and participation should weigh the heaviest. The job relevance measure allows you to make sure that the same person isn't always getting everything which becomes a major downfall for many starting shells (favoritism). The member selects one priority 75 job for being most geared and they can change it every 30-60 days (you decide the measure, if you're getting tons of loot, make it shorter, if it's taking a while to get decent drops for whatever reason, stretch it out so you can avoid being taken advantage of). The last 10% is just the x-factor to determine whether or not someone is deserving in your opinion. Separates the self-serving person from the person who goes the extra mile to make your LS better.

You can track attendance however you like, but I used an excel spreadsheet and tracked it by date and frequency.

Hope that will get you started and I'll check back to see if you have any feedback. Hope it's not the TL; DR kinda response, since you had searched through 20 pages, wanted to try to make it worth your while.

Good luck.

I doubt this will work out well for a Sky/Sea LS. Since both work on a tier system, making people only able to lot for one class is risky. What ends up happening is people who set themselves for a class that only benefits later on (Kirin/JoL), will find themselves unable to obtain gear for a good portion of the starting events. On the other hand, there will be people who obtain a lot of gear at the start, and find little incentive to continue because they're "locked in" on a set class. For example, BLM obtains Zenith Mittens early in sky. Once they obtain those, there is very little, if any reason to bother with sky from then on if they can't lot for their DRK (Or whatever else they have) later on.

Quite frankly, that last 10% simply factors in the favoritism that you mentioned was cut out through the 30% relevance part. A point system based on attendance is the best and probably the most unbiased way to go. If you use points, you can eliminate the gear hording problem by adjusting how points are used. The great part about a point system is the flexibility in changing later on. Since points until the point of change are calculated, you can add restrictions or rules later on without affecting current standing.

For sea, you'll find that pops become more difficult to find as you continue the tiers, so don't stop to repeatedly do one NM unless higher tier NMs are done. You'll find that the shitty drop rates on earlier tier NMS might make that the case. Another idea with the points is that you can make either shared or divided points (Sky pts or Sea pts). If you do that however, consider the potential for event skipping (As mentioned earlier, BLMs might skip sky and just do sea).

Kirin is doable non-zerg with 12. I'd advise working with your members and getting better at it, as opposed to shouting and getting a bunch of shady people that likely won't listen and may ninja things.

He said at MOST 16 and that he will NOT be shouting.

[Massimo]

He said at MOST 16 and that he will NOT be shouting.

When we have a Kirin Pop set, we will have a shout run, and use attendance points to decide the lot on the Osode. If a member wants abjuration, all but osode and the abjuration is freelot.

But yeah, 16 is plenty for Kirin. Just have a good kiter, 2~ SAMs, some BLMs to SC/MB and and a tank for pets. We do it with 10~14 regularly, it's really not as hard as it sounds.

Edit: You don't need W.Legs to kite Kirin, but it makes it easier.

[Yugl]

But yeah, 16 is plenty for Kirin. Just have a good kiter, 2~ SAMs, some BLMs to SC/MB and and a tank for pets. We do it with 10~14 regularly, it's really not as hard as it sounds.

Edit: You don't need W.Legs to kite Kirin, but it makes it easier.

Ah I thought he meant in general not just the Kirin part.

[Thorny]

Don't mind Yugl, he just loves arguing with me. Maybe someday he'll catch me being wrong and cream his pants =D

Kirin with 12:

Outside PT:
RDM or PLD kiter
WHM assisting kiter

PT#1:
DD/NIN x3
RDM
BRD or COR
BRD - Alternates Parties

PT#2:
BLM
BLM
RDM/DRK

PT#3:
THF

Kite kirin, tp burn adds(BLMs take genbu when it pops, can just kite it around and nuke it down). ES bind(multiple if necessary) seiryu's 2hour if you don't have a RNG as one of your DD and your RDM doesn't have sparkly enfeeb gear. Chainstun suzy's 2hr. After adds, you can kite or straight tank if you have a good pld or rdm(it's much faster to straight tank in general!), put outside party into PT#2.

[Fng]

If you can sell R/E items you should do that as first priority. IMO cash spent wisely is far better at improving players then items.

As for the stuff you can't get outsiders to buy... The most transparent is just straight DKP.

I feel this needs a restriction that you need to be able to equip the R/E items in order to bid them. This won't completely defeat lootwhoring.. but jebus its sky / sea

Anything that is not R/E should be biddable w/ dkp and either kept / sold by the player at their discretion.

[KoD]

My Shell uses Points/Whislist/Aucation Bid system Is very basic, and require lil maintance other than tracking points, We don't use any sites we use microsoft excel, and Jst Print screen upload to site, its very easy and shows where people got there points and why!
Whislist System prevents lootwhoreing, And also give lil more benfite to members who can't always attend, but you need to keep an eye on sertain members attedance, giveing a base point to ech item helps agaist that! While the Bid system allows members who really want the item to get it first aswell as keeps points off-balance aswell let them pay what they think worth, and preventing everyone haveing same amount of points!

Giveing out paychecks can be very troubable at times there few ways you can go:
A- Pay those who attended Gods (Give gil for items Sold once they Sold)
B- Hold gil for X period of time, track attedance with points Pay them once X period of time ends,

A- Gives those who attend gil, but can cause problems with members who attended farming only but missed gods, and those who attended gods but missed farming,

B- Is Nice way everyone is the same, Paychecks based on Attedance overall everyone get money from the same loot amount split amoung ech member based on attedance

Track all your sales post and give tottal show how you work out your paychecks try to leave no room for people to say you cheating them if they start saying that and members join the group it will break your shell, i've had 2shells that i was in break bc of this problem!!

I suggest doing what u think best for your group, and try to reduce the ability for people to say things behind the shell back (You give items to members who are your favorite etc.)

Edit: Plz for give my grama/Spelling mistakes D:

[Yugl]

Don't mind Yugl, he just loves arguing with me. Maybe someday he'll catch me being wrong and cream his pants =D

You're wrong every time your advice makes unreasonable assumptions about the poster's set up and gear, and I'm not just referring to this thread either.

[Fridell]

Advice for ppl being ALREADY into this game enough to have knowledge about all basics and more, with gear to back it up yo.
I don't really see it mentioned anywhere "Hello we're a new LS with TOTALLY new and fresh people that have no idea what to do" do you?

[Thorny]

You're wrong every time your advice makes unreasonable assumptions about the poster's set up and gear, and I'm not just referring to this thread either.

Everything can be done completely NQ, bro. Having just leveled my 9th character and working up from jack shit again, it's really obvious. I could do 95% of my old solos on RDM days after dinging 75 with no nashira, no relic, half my HQ staves missing, no wlegs, etc. I had NQ ah counterparts for everything, and used spellcast, but still did fine. To assume a linkshell has 3 BRDs, 2 BLMs, 2 RDMs, a tank, a thf, and 3 DD isn't an unreasonable assumption about their setup.. how the fuck do they plan on doing anything without having at least that? It's not like I'm suggesting they bring 2 parties each consisting of 3 kraken drks, 2 brds, a whm(though that would be a much easier 12-man setup), or something like 10 BLM + RDM + tank(which isn't at all a kirin setup, but I understand a lot of shells don't have enough BLM to field for some things). The setup I mentioned was very balanced, any shell should be able to field it, period. As far as gear, like mentioned earlier, they need to use things beneficial to their job but NQ shit works perfectly fine.

[Rilu]

My take on drops and lotting:

1. Attendance. You can break this into like 2-3 groups if you want, 75%+, 50%-75%, 50% and below etc.
2. If you can wear it, you can lot it. Gives everyone equal chance of lotting on stuff
3. I hate gil splitting, its a really long, tiring process where you end up having to do weird splits according to attendance and what dropped when, and it turns into a welfare line. My suggestion is just buy whatever pops you are going to buy, then split evenly whatever is left over. Do the splits at the END of certain events for the event previous, it'll ensure people stay for the whole event, and come to events as well! I always did the shares system for gil: if you had lets say 10 events since last split, 50% or more of activities gives you 2 shares, at least 1 activity and up to 50% gives you 1 share. Then just divide by the number of shares total and then hand out gil.

Oh, edit: Also, be sure people understand that this LS isn't for gil making, they should be able to make gil on their own time, not rely on the LS splits for all their money. This keeps people from complaining alot. Gil from a LS should just be gravy, not potatoes.

[Gergall]

Kirin is doable non-zerg with 12. I'd advise working with your members and getting better at it, as opposed to shouting and getting a bunch of shady people that likely won't listen and may ninja things.

Ninjaing is easily preventable. Everyone must lot/pass within 60 seconds. If you have not lotted/passed everything in a timely manner, the party leaders (who will be core shell members) kick you.

Edit: And the alliance leader does not lot/pass until all other members have already done so.

[Furionstormrage]

Ninjaing is easily preventable. Everyone must lot/pass within 60 seconds. If you have not lotted/passed everything in a timely manner, the party leaders (who will be core shell members) kick you.

Edit: And the alliance leader does not lot/pass until all other members have already done so.

This ^^

Prevents any remote chance of ninja-lotting, in things like Sky/Sea that you're doing. I don't understand how anything in those areas, with one treasure pool that requires you to be in the alliance to lot, get's ninja-lotted. Just laziness on the leaders part.

(Not really any way to prevent it in Dynamis or similar areas with a shared pool, since anyone can drop PT and just stand there lotting stuff)

[LiquidFriend]

For the money drops (back when we still did sky), we'd just store the gil and buy triggers for gods we still needed. Sky money drops aren't worth a whole lot any longer, so trying to split up a mil or so between 16 people is far too much effort to be worthwhile. Instead of fucking with never wanting to pop Despot for several hours, we'd just meleeburn up statues for dio's and bought the gems.

Gear was if you can wear it, lot it for almost everything. The biggest in demand items (w legs, haidate) we kept a mini points list and ran off that to decide who got those items. 3 points for attending each farm, 2 for gods. Point was deducted if you arrived/left early.

[Yugl]

Not to mention that if they somehow don't have the set up (Since unlike conventional LSs, this is between friends who may not have whats needed), it's foolish to waste pop sets "getting better". For the first few Kirins just shout and see how it goes. As the group gets better, that's when you can trim members where necessary.

[Thorny]

This ^^

Prevents any remote chance of ninja-lotting, in things like Sky/Sea that you're doing. I don't understand how anything in those areas, with one treasure pool that requires you to be in the alliance to lot, get's ninja-lotted. Just laziness on the leaders part.

Just playing devil's advocate, but drop party at 1% with last action and claim stays yours for about a minute before it'll go yellow. Anyone with a decent 2hr could gank a Kirin like that, aside from how ridiculous shouting for Kirin sounds in the first place >_>