Spellcast Help Thread (Link your XML using Pastebin.com for help!)

[ringthree]

It wouldn't be that difficult, actually, if you make it similar to how you create rules for email filters or firewalls, and such.

Make a rule for everything spellcast can do, such as:

When...

Job is <job>
Day is <day>
Weather is <weather>
Time is between <time> and <time>
Moon is <phase>
Target is <family/monster>
etc.

Then do...

Equip <item>
Delay <amount>
Input into chat <text>
Enter FFXI command <command>
Enter Windower command <command>
etc.

with logical functions (and/or/xor/not/etc.) to string any number of conditions together, rule priority sorting, and such. Then, it'd reduce the difficulty of creating xml spellcast files to the same level as creating an email filter or firewall rule.

A feature could even be to read your currently equipped set from memory (if run while logged into FFXI and your equip menu open) and generate a list of Equip <item>s for the rule, or parsing already-created macro text files to generate the list.

I had a dog and it's name was...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ngo_poster.jpg

I was thinking you could even tell it which keys you want to bind the actions to in the interface.

[Thorny]

It wouldn't be that difficult, actually, if you make it similar to how you create rules for email filters or firewalls, and such.

Make a rule for everything spellcast can do, such as:

When...

Job is <job>
Day is <day>
Weather is <weather>
Time is between <time> and <time>
Moon is <phase>
Target is <family/monster>
etc.

Then do...

Equip <item>
Delay <amount>
Input into chat <text>
Enter FFXI command <command>
Enter Windower command <command>
etc.

with logical functions (and/or/xor/not/etc.) to string any number of conditions together, rule priority sorting, and such. Then, it'd reduce the difficulty of creating xml spellcast files to the same level as creating an email filter or firewall rule.

A feature could even be to read your currently equipped set from memory (if run while logged into FFXI and your equip menu open) and generate a list of Equip <item>s for the rule, or parsing already-created macro text files to generate the list.

Compiling the entire spellcast together and compensating for conflicting rules would be rather difficult, and the flexibility of the language will always allow things a GUI won't.. as I said it would be difficult and likely never cover everything. It's not impossible.

[dejet]

It wouldn't be that difficult, actually, if you make it similar to how you create rules for email filters or firewalls, and such.

Make a rule for everything spellcast can do, such as:

When...

Job is <job>
Day is <day>
Weather is <weather>
Time is between <time> and <time>
Moon is <phase>
Target is <family/monster>
etc.

Then do...

Equip <item>
Delay <amount>
Input into chat <text>
Enter FFXI command <command>
Enter Windower command <command>
etc.

with logical functions (and/or/xor/not/etc.) to string any number of conditions together, rule priority sorting, and such. Then, it'd reduce the difficulty of creating xml spellcast files to the same level as creating an email filter or firewall rule.

A feature could even be to read your currently equipped set from memory (if run while logged into FFXI and your equip menu open) and generate a list of Equip <item>s for the rule, or parsing already-created macro text files to generate the list.

edit one sec thinking how to answer this lol

OK: basic could be done i bet, However just look at Aikar blm. Shit is a mile long. How you could turn that into a GUI I have no clue. Could it be done? bet it could. Just seems like a tone of work.

Basic things like day and night could be done. I still stand by looking at others and editing gear to what you have.

[ringthree]

Compiling the entire spellcast together and compensating for conflicting rules would be rather difficult, and the flexibility of the language will always allow things a GUI won't.. as I said it would be difficult and likely never cover everything. It's not impossible.

Of course I don't think it would cover anything. It would be like Spellcast for Dummies, or like an automatic XML generator, or something. Hey, I am just offering ideas from the idiot side of the computer here. It's like that developers comic of how to build a swing.

[Khamsin]

edit one sec thinking how to answer this lol

OK: basic could be done i bet, However just look at Aikar blm. Shit is a mile long. How you could turn that into a GUI I have no clue. Could it be done? bet it could. Just seems like a tone of work.

Basic things like day and night could be done. I still stand by looking at others and editing gear to what you have.

By far, the most tedious part of converting to spellcast the first time is typing out the names of all your equipment for various jobs and conditions. At worst, a GUI like this would get the tedious part out of the way, and then you can edit it yourself for advanced features the GUI may have missed. I can guarantee you that for the majority of users, something like what I mentioned would cover their bases. For the few it doesn't, they probably prefer typing it out themselves anyway, in notepad no less.

However, a mile long spellcast xml does not mean it's complicated. It means there's a lot of equipment for a lot of conditions. Find a part of it that illustrates functionality that can not be encompassed in a rules system, and I'll probably just tell you how to adjust the GUI to account for it.

For example, flags such as "locked" that can appear on equip lines can be added as a checkbox in the GUI when using the "Equip <item>" rule. Remember, a GUI merely would write proper xml for spellcast, it wouldn't do spellcast's job. It doesn't have to account for much, it just has to recognize the possible tags and organize it visually. Therefore, any "conflicting rules" or other issues are spellcast's problem, not the GUIs. Although a good GUI would pick up on it and alert you of potential conflicts.

[ringthree]

By far, the most tedious part of converting to spellcast the first time is typing out the names of all your equipment for various jobs and conditions. At worst, a GUI like this would get the tedious part out of the way, and then you can edit it yourself for advanced features the GUI may have missed. I can guarantee you that for the majority of users, something like what I mentioned would cover their bases. For the few it doesn't, they probably prefer typing it out themselves anyway, in notepad no less.

However, a mile long spellcast xml does not mean it's complicated. It means there's a lot of equipment for a lot of conditions. Find a part of it that illustrates functionality that can not be encompassed in a rules system, and I'll probably just tell you how to adjust the GUI to account for it.

For example, flags such as "locked" that can appear on equip lines can be added as a checkbox in the GUI when using the "Equip <item>" rule. Remember, a GUI merely would write proper xml for spellcast, it wouldn't do spellcast's job. It doesn't have to account for much, it just has to recognize the possible tags and organize it visually. Therefore, any "conflicting rules" or other issues are spellcast's problem, not the GUIs. Although a good GUI would pick up on it and alert you of potential conflicts.

Perfect! Exactly what I was thinking! Windower developers for the love of god PLEASE READ THIS!

Now we just need to get someone to write this! Maybe I should just offer a reward or prize for the first person to develop it.

[Deimos]

I actually spoke to Aikar about this the other night, I've started working on a basic sort of "wizard" application that should be able to generate reasonable XML files. Yes, it would be way too complex to make it able to do everything, but most people don't need the full potential of SpellCast anyway. Most people just want to set up "when I use weaponskill X, put on the following gear:" and that kind of thing, which is pretty easy to make a GUI for. If people want to get really complex, they'll probably have to suck it up and learn XML, but I should be able to cover most of the common cases reasonably well.

Khamsin's description of it being similar to firewall/Outlook-type rules is exactly how I was thinking of it myself, and that's the way my application is probably going to work. The other ideas about having it able to scan memory for the gear you're wearing and such are cool, but probably unnecessary. I think most of us can probably recite our various gear sets in our sleep, and I'd imagine that's normal for anyone that feels like they need to use something like SpellCast to manage all of it. Besides, I'm coding this as a web application, so that I don't have to worry about distributing updates for it every time new gear comes out or anything changes in SpellCast's XML specs or capabilities.

I don't want to get anyone's hopes too far up, because I'm not sure when I'll have enough time to get this in shape for others to use, and I know various other people have said that they're working on similar projects without ever delivering anything (I can see at least 3 on the SpellCast forums). But I am working on it. If anyone has any ideas relevant to the way you think something like this should work, feel free to PM me or post here, nothing about it is set in stone yet.

[dejet]

I actually spoke to Aikar about this the other night, I've started working on a basic sort of "wizard" application that should be able to generate reasonable XML files. Yes, it would be way too complex to make it able to do everything, but most people don't need the full potential of SpellCast anyway. Most people just want to set up "when I use weaponskill X, put on the following gear:" and that kind of thing, which is pretty easy to make a GUI for. If people want to get really complex, they'll probably have to suck it up and learn XML, but I should be able to cover most of the common cases reasonably well.

Khamsin's description of it being similar to firewall/Outlook-type rules is exactly how I was thinking of it myself, and that's the way my application is probably going to work. The other ideas about having it able to scan memory for the gear you're wearing and such are cool, but probably unnecessary. I think most of us can probably recite our various gear sets in our sleep, and I'd imagine that's normal for anyone that feels like they need to use something like SpellCast to manage all of it. Besides, I'm coding this as a web application, so that I don't have to worry about distributing updates for it every time new gear comes out or anything changes in SpellCast's XML specs or capabilities.

I don't want to get anyone's hopes too far up, because I'm not sure when I'll have enough time to get this in shape for others to use, and I know various other people have said that they're working on similar projects without ever delivering anything (I can see at least 3 on the SpellCast forums). But I am working on it. If anyone has any ideas relevant to the way you think something like this should work, feel free to PM me or post here, nothing about it is set in stone yet.

Well i take my words back then. Spellcast to me just seems like the mega macro master, windower macros work fine if you do not know a little XML, even then if you really wished to use spellcast looking at others is an easy way to go about it(all you really need to do is edit out gear you do not have and edit in what you do for each set)

If you make a GUI more power to ya, it is a great plugin that tbh i could not live without anymore. (though i may have to soon because my laptop went BOOM on me...)

[Ezhno]

If you're not handling advanced rules regarding a myriad of different conditions and you just want to handle "if spell then gear" or "if JA then gear" kind of stuff, yeah I'd imagine a GUI wouldn't be too hard to make. I'd imagine some common advanced rules could be added as well, such as nighttime equips, elemental obis, and BLM relic pants, but really most of the really neat tricks you can pull off with spellcast would be too hard to standardize for GUI.

[Deimos]

I'd imagine some common advanced rules could be added as well, such as nighttime equips, elemental obis, and BLM relic pants, but really most of the really neat tricks you can pull off with spellcast would be too hard to standardize for GUI.

I wouldn't consider things like "nighttime" and such to be particularly advanced, that's a really easy rule to set up. Honestly, the more I think about it, I'm really having trouble coming up with something that would be too hard to do with a decent GUI. If anyone can come up with some examples of things that they think would be too complex, I'd really like to see them. Concrete examples of things that people think would be too hard would definitely help me think through the design.

[Ezhno]

I guess I put down nighttime as an "advanced" rule because most people like to also combine it with autoexec to make sure it'll swap their nighttime gear immediately instead of waiting for a new cast or autoset, etc. Also it's more complicated than just "if spell then gear" so I guess I consider a bit above basic.

[Aikar]

a gui can be done by anyone, doesnt have to be me Few people seem to be working on em. What well finally get well just have to see, but discussion was done on how it can be made to provide SOME good support for rules and still remain simple.

I was under the impression pants were a straight damage+%, while obi forced proc on day bonus.. being entirely seperate, they should stack. Do you have any proof to the alternative? (not relevant to your question, but still curious)

Pants are a 5% day bonus damage boost.
Obi at double weather = 25%
obi at day = 10%
so obi gives 35% on day/double weather of matching element.

However, there is a 35% damage boost cap on day/weather bonuses, and the pants is a day bonus, so its part of that cap, and does not give you any benefit if your using obi on a day/double weather condition as obi alone reaches that cap.

Hince why i wrote that complicated ass rule to check all those conditions and whether or not you have the obi

[ringthree]

If you're not handling advanced rules regarding a myriad of different conditions and you just want to handle "if spell then gear" or "if JA then gear" kind of stuff, yeah I'd imagine a GUI wouldn't be too hard to make. I'd imagine some common advanced rules could be added as well, such as nighttime equips, elemental obis, and BLM relic pants, but really most of the really neat tricks you can pull off with spellcast would be too hard to standardize for GUI.

I understand your concern, but I think the best place to start is the beginning. I am really encouraged by what I have seen suggested.

Remember, anyone that needs a GUI isn't going to care about the really neat tricks, they just want something that works to start off. The advanced rules can be added later on either by hand or by an upgrade to the GUI.

[Ezhno]

I understand your concern, but I think the best place to start is the beginning. I am really encouraged by what I have seen suggested.

Remember, anyone that needs a GUI isn't going to care about the really neat tricks, they just want something that works to start off. The advanced rules can be added later on either by hand or by an upgrade to the GUI.

Yeah, I was in no way opposed to a GUI or saying it's impossible, I'm just confirming that most of the really advanced tricks won't be easy to incorporate, but I see no reason whatsoever easy rules can't be GUI'd along with other common rules for obis and such. Most people already pretty much copy paste obi XML code from the ones posted on the Windower Wiki, so the code for it might as well be standardized.

[Aikar]

there will be an official XML subscription for includes soon, so the GUI can even read that and auto add the include lines - and ill have in the comments for the includes what each include does.

[ringthree]

I love it when a plan comes together.
http://www.the-iss.com/Hannible.jpg

[Khamsin]

If you're not handling advanced rules regarding a myriad of different conditions and you just want to handle "if spell then gear" or "if JA then gear" kind of stuff, yeah I'd imagine a GUI wouldn't be too hard to make. I'd imagine some common advanced rules could be added as well, such as nighttime equips, elemental obis, and BLM relic pants, but really most of the really neat tricks you can pull off with spellcast would be too hard to standardize for GUI.

nighttime equips and elemental obis aren't any different than "if spell then gear". It'd just be "if spell and nighttime and elemental magic and day then", which is the simplest form of a rule.

[Ezhno]

nighttime equips and elemental obis aren't any different than "if spell then gear". It'd just be "if spell and nighttime and elemental magic and day then", which is the simplest form of a rule.

I guess I put down nighttime as an "advanced" rule because most people like to also combine it with autoexec to make sure it'll swap their nighttime gear immediately instead of waiting for a new cast or autoset, etc. Also it's more complicated than just "if spell then gear" so I guess I consider a bit above basic.

^
But defining what is basic and what's advanced in spellcast is arbitrary anyway, that wasn't the point of my post in the first place.

[Khamsin]

^
But defining what is basic and what's advanced in spellcast is arbitrary anyway, that wasn't the point of my post in the first place.

Your point was that there may be some things spellcast can do that a GUI wouldn't be able to adequately support (or would be difficult to). I'm just saying there's very little that cannot be easily accounted for in a GUI.

[Ezhno]

Yes, I agree, that's why I said rules like nighttime and obis could be added to a GUI.