Maximizing Thief for HNM

[el_tio]

Title says most everything. Thf can be decent on HNMs (though still lags behind good SAM-WAR-DRK-RNG) but I want to help it do the most it can.

Inb4 "lol, just TH whore" and other mediocrity. This topic is about maximizing when you are fighting not if you should be or not.

Basically what I want to know is what you do if you are a thief, or what you think you should do. Everything from equipment, sub to food selection. Tho IMO the answer is usually /war, unless you can't melee. Even highest ideal gear would be good.

My specific situation is sky without any bard support usually. Any more general advice to extend past that to tougher mobs is appreciated.

Right now I usually do an acc heavy build with pizza, but my acc is atrocious in sky. Like 50%. This might be due to people being slow on dispel but idk. I've also heard of gearing exclusively for attack and eating sushi but idk... it's frustrating overall really.

I know the skadi set is kind of lol, but I think it might actually make a good HNM set. A decent balance of attack, acc, str, with 5% crits and 5% haste.

So--how do you gear thief on HNMs? Or if you're any other kind of 1-hand DD on HNMs, how do you gear?

[enoch]

One thing I think most endgame THFs overlook, as they apply TH and promptly AFK for the remainder of the fight... is the usefulness of Accomplice/Collaborator. If you're in a BLM pt at KB or with DD's at DI or Khim, keeping these folks alive just a little bit longer is worth paying attention for.

Edit: as for your specific situation in sky... since you're not going to be a main DD, do what you can to focus on support. If your shell is light on healers, THF/WHM - why not? If you have a decent racc set, bring acid bolts. Also; for sky gods, bring a sword and open with Spirits Within.

[sruon]

/WAR, accomplice/collaborator mages and heavy DDs, limit the TP feeding on mobs that apply. That's what I expect from a real THF.

Having a magic defense build for THF isn't a bad idea either.

[Aksannyi]

It's amazing how many BLMs and DDs don't know that the THF is partially responsible for them still being alive in some fights, we have some DDs go crazy on Khim and Tiamat without even realizing the reason they can go so over the top is the THF stealing their hate. It's kind of funny actually, especially if we don't get a THF till later in the fight and these "uber" DDs keep going like nothing is different.

[Cerealkiller_Hades]

OK, i stumbled upon a winner of a thread! For you good sir, wishing to maximize dmg, heres the straight skinny, all lazy thfs or ones who dont bother to try to gear themselves proper, need not read further.

SKY: i typically prefer /DRK, now before you bash and LOL DRK, listen up. Not only does this allow for an amazing ability to backup stun, but SE and Last Resort combined with a SATA ws on the off tank can do some nice dmg, with Blau i did roughly 600-700 avg, X's 700ish, i never got to really test mandau in sky but the setup for that is irrelivent to your situation anyway.

HNM: /war or /drk you can do either, but i prefer /war for berserk since it has a much longer duration, i also tend to be involved in the SC rather than just a bystander keeping my blms and meles alive. Primary concern IMO get TH on, anytime around 15-20% is fine to equip TK and Armlets, prior to that you can do dmg with blau or X's and whatever haste hands you have

its basically the same for either /war or /drk and u pretty much always wanna use acc food and have 8/8 dagger merits, i list in order of best to worst
TP:
Main: Mandau/X's/Blau
Sub: Viking/Tatami shield (Tatami only prefered for mandau)
Head: walahra turban
Neck: love torque/PCC/Chiv chain
ears ethereal/brutal
body: Homam/Scorpion harness
hands: Dusk+1/Homam/Asassin Armlets (obviously a TH thing at 15%)
legs: Homam/Bravos Subligar
feet: Homam/Dusk
rings:Mars Ring/Sniper's+1/Sniper's AND RAJAS (Rajas only other ring, no debate)

WS:
Main: Mandau/X's/Blau
Sub: Viking/Tatami shield (Tatami only prefered for mandau)
Head: Hecatomb cap
Neck: Gorget(for specific WS)/love torque/Spike necklace
ears ethereal/brutal
body: Skadi/Antares/Dragon harness
hands:Hecatomb/Dragon
legs: Hecatomb/Dragon
feet: Hecatomb/dragon
rings:Mars Ring/Sniper's+1/Sniper's AND RAJAS (Rajas only other ring, no debate)
I dont swap snipers for DE or Evis since they multi hit u might get away with dex ring for SB

THF can do dmg, but it takes ALOT of effort to get the gear to be good, and while you will probably never spike dmg like a SAM, you can do some nice DoT and really be an asset if you play right and utilize your strengths to your upmost advantage. Most of this gear is R/EX so its less of a monitary issue for most pieces, the heca hands and feet come from sky, legs and head are HNM. Skadi is really not a huge issue and beyond antares/skadi the cost for most of this is minimal compared with what most good DD should have. Good luck to you i hope this helped

[Daeman]

Also; for sky gods, bring a sword and open with Spirits Within.

Depending how good your thf is, you should be able to outdo Spirits Within with a sata+hide assassin's charged 300% shark bite on sky gods at the start of a fight. /war or /drk.

Personally, I like to go /drk for that initial ws at pop. Admittedly, my thf was pretty decent, probably above average, back when I did sky frequently. I averaged about 800+, occasionally break 1k and capping out at about 1.2k on like byakko over a year ago.

If you're not pulling high consistent numbers though... Spirits Within is a good call.

[Archain]

I'd recommend having /WAR, /DRK, and /MNK as HNM subs.


Subjobs
Subbing /WAR will allow you to assist at camps that require window claims. You can also use this during fights when stunning duty isn't needed. Berserk is going to help you a lot, normally THF usually has an attack deficiency. This should be the basic THF HNM subjob.

Subbing /DRK helps in some instances when you lowman an HNM and require another source of stun.

Subbing /MNK allows you to multiboost a few times in order to plant a stronger WS on a tank or for a stronger weaponskill in general. Your ACC is covered with TA, especially if you use a 1x WS (like Mandalic Stab or MS) you can raise your attack power directly by multiboosting.

http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...iamat%20MS.JPG


Feint
If you are one of many melee, you may want to go very strongly into Feint. It's extremely powerful and if you take it to the 5x level, you can reapply another 30 seconds of evasion down every 2:00. If your LS wants to utilize you for an HNM burn, this does great in justifying your position.



Boosting/Buffing
Since you don't have the raw power that a 2HD job usually has, try to find situations that will allow you to either steal buffs via Aura Steal, utilize multiboosting via /MNK, or use temp items/drink (like Solider's Drink). You can make a normal weaponskill very concentrated if you are allowed to.

http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...0NyzulKhim.JPG

http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...0-%20Yovra.JPG


Hide
If you are familiar with Hide mechanics and snitch killing, you can stay completely out of an enemy's hate queue if you build TP externally and TA your WS onto a tank. You can open up fights with full powered WS onto an active tank. Hide is amazing and many still don't know how to utilize it fully.



Mandalic Stab
Do not underestimate Mandalic Stab either. This weaponskill seems to boost your attack at weaponskill by around 66%. It is something you can obtain and it does work fairly well against HNMs.

http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...-%20Fafnir.JPG

http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...20Sandworm.JPG

[Fridell]

It's amazing how many BLMs and DDs don't know that the THF is partially responsible for them still being alive in some fights, we have some DDs go crazy on Khim and Tiamat without even realizing the reason they can go so over the top is the THF stealing their hate. It's kind of funny actually, especially if we don't get a THF till later in the fight and these "uber" DDs keep going like nothing is different.

This is what I love THF for in any larger battle, not for their dmg (which can be good with great THFs however), SA & TA is just secondary JAs for most THFs and Feint, Accomplice/Collaborator/Treasure Hunter (haha) owns!
Hell, to spin offtopic a bit it feels like THFs got an upswing these days with Salvage and Nyzul.

[Raen Ryong]

Basically as stated before, MANDALIC STAB. This weaponskill is VERY underestimated... it's basically a later game Viper Bite. Use it stacked and use it vs high def/eva mobs and it will do very nice consistent damage. It's not going to break the game like Mercy Stroke does, but it will provide you with steady damage.

Eat sushi, gear attack/haste with some accuracy is the best way I find. 5/5 Feint is wonderful, Aura Steal helps for those situations where a Dispeller is otherwise occupied. Use Assassin's Charge to plant hate on a tank early on.

Use soloSA/TA while waiting on TP etc (assuming you can SA safely, obviously things like Fafnir can be a bit risky here) and remember Evisceration makes Darkness with a few common HNM weaponskills... Shark Bite also makes Light.

[S N K]

I'd recommend having /WAR, /DRK, and /MNK as HNM subs.

This one hundred times over. So many THFs I've seen in Aery and many other HNM camps almost always sub /NIN. The last Tiamat I went to I subbed /WAR and seriously went to town on that dragon and loved every minute of it.

[levish]

/war I could see working if you aren't accomplice-ing. If there is any prospective chance of using it your event leaders will almost 100% want you to come /nin

I'd work around that by stacking attack/acc instead of haste/DW gear on high def/eva stuff and the perennial "eat meat". Maybe do something crazy like bring out that assault Jerkin (if the situation allows)

[Shinryuu]

A little bit off-topic: are there any super awesome buffs you can Aura Steal?

And yeah in sky I like THF/DRK, it can do a lot of damage every 6 minutes and the rest of your damage will come from SA and TA anyway on gods especially in an unbuffed situation.

[Raen Ryong]

Jailer of Love's flourescence is the most obvious one but I dunno if that's HNM in the sense you're thinking of.

Gonna be VERY hard to build for meat on HNM... Thief accuracy is just way too low.

/nin vs /war ... basically, think of it in terms of potential. /nin has a higher roof than /war for Thief, but /war starts you off at a higher potential (albeit with a lower maximum); this means practically that on HNM, /war will almost always beat /nin, but on weaker stuff like merits, /nin will beat /war.

[Ultimagi]

If you're nothing more than a Treasure Hunter and/or Collaborator, you can also sub White Mage or Scholar and help remove status effects. Particularly useful in low man fights where feeding TP is an issue.

[Aksannyi]

Really coming /NIN for HNMs is stupid, if you want to claim, how do you plan to do that on THF/NIN? Steal?

People laugh at all the THF/RDM at Aspid, or THF/WAR in Aery, but you're not just there to be a TH whore, your TH means jackshit if your linkshell can't get claim.

[thetruepandagod]

thd/pld and stun fulmination/GoH

[Thorny]

If you're nothing more than a Treasure Hunter and/or Collaborator, you can also sub White Mage or Scholar and help remove status effects. Particularly useful in low man fights where feeding TP is an issue.

for once i agree with ulti, thf/whm was great for 6manning tinnin since we needed to waste a slot on TH but didn't really want them meleeing

[Enedin]

THF has gotten a lot more interesting since Accomp/Collab. I duo Ix'Aern MNK with a BLM, and after a few minutes (read: after a few collabs) hate is safely on me and he can go rest, nuke and repeat.

THF isn't about the dmg, it's about hate imo. Sticking hate at beginning of fight and stealing hate off others is very powerful, yes something people seem to overlook. I like THF/DRK for Sky, THF/SAM is nice for fights like kited Kirin (I know, shut up).

[Insoluble]

The only time I use /war is for Kings for claim. With X's knife you can make up for not having berserk at other HNM where you need /nin. The best sub depends on the HNM.

Tiamat you should go /mnk especially if you have Mandau unless the LS needs you to pull adds then /nin would be ok. I've also found that /mnk is best on Cerberus because you can build TP and then lay off while you boost out of range of being paralzyed. Also helps to give healers time to cure you. Most mages notice THF last =x.

I almost always go /nin to Kirin because I always pull hate. Khim is debatable though, you could go /mnk for higher damage but you could also go /sam for more WS. I usually prefer /sam on Khim.

After you have Mandau /drk is kind of pointless unless you have 5/5 Assassin's Charge and I have no idea why you would... /drk with blau/x's wont do more than /mnk with Mandau.

Ixion is another story.. you could go /mnk for spike damage but most of the time Ixion is spinning and you have to wait to use WS sometimes making boost wear. I've tried /rng once with Culverin and full racc set, it wasn't too bad but it isn't as good as /nin /war or /mnk.

I doubt there is a case where /whm would help more than other subs. The examples shown are quite weak. I'd rather put TH on a mob and go change to WHM main than sub /whm...

As far as Aura Steal.. there are too few times in which it's worth having this especially if you have a RDM alt. It's ok on jol but you can do well without it too.

[Malacite]

You're still going to pay out the nose for Heca gear since you need the cursed items.

I would also add Denali to your list. It's not ideal for THF but it is fairly decent (and free) substitute. It looks cool too ^^

Stupid Blau Dolch costs almost as much as a Hagun on Seraph it's unbearable and I haven't had any luck finding other people to attempt the X's knife BC ><