$3800 same as cash towards a new GM vehicle...what to do?

[Serif]

Ahhh well at least you have done 99% more research than the average joe buying a car, good to know.

New cars aren't bad but doubt any cars I buy here in the next 10 years will be new. Cash ONRY

[archibaldcrane]

Buyin stuff you don't need!

Ohi Archibald, I was in Hollywood a few months ago and would have seen if you were up for drinks or something, but I was only there for one night and a business conference at 7am the next day.

Ohi. Aurik fail. Although I suppose I was up in San Fran for 2 games of the opening Giants/Brewers series in April and didn't hit you up either, so I fail too.

And yeah, it's definitely not something I need, but at this price with these incentives it's just a bit too hard to pass up. Before I found out I qualified for the GM Owner Loyalty $2000 bonus I was going to scrap the whole plan and just stick with what I have.

So, 95% sure in a week or so I'll have a brand new 2009 Pontiac Vibe and a beat up 2003 Nissan Sentra (that still runs great). I will need to sell one of these vehicles, and that brings me to something I have no experience with: Selling a used (or "used") car. What have you all found to be the best way to sell your used car? Do you use newspaper ads, online ads, what sites, etc? Also, as the seller, besides presenting the car clean and ready to go, what else should I prepare, both as a service to the buyer and to assure I don't get ripped off? Considering the unique situation of potentially selling a brand new car, should I take anything into consideration there?

In regards to the Nissan: Does the buyer usually get their own Carfax report, or should I do that as the seller? What about having a mechanic take a look at it? Is that something a buyer pays for?

As much as I know about buying new cars, I really know next to nothing about private party sales of used cars. Hit me up with experiences, especially as a seller.

[Howard Roark]

I noticed Saturn in the list of GM brands but this has not been touched upon, just curious why not as I haven't heard anything negative about Saturns in your debating on what to do

I also don't know their general price range as I'm not in the market for a car currently



so... why not a Saturn? seems the best of the worst and you may find something whose stick location doesn't aggravate you

[archibaldcrane]

AURA (over 20k)
OUTLOOK (over 20k)
SKY (over 20k)
VUE (Minivan, no)
ASTRA - only possible Saturn option, and they didn't even make a 2009 version, much less a 2010. Similar to a Vibe, but I'd much rather have a '09 Vibe (Matrix) than an '08 ASTRA.

[Avinor]

I've only sold 1 used car, and I just used an online ad on Autotrader to sell it. I priced it reasonably and the car was in great shape with all the papers, so it sold fast - I got my first inquiry within a day. So it worked out pretty well.

The buyer should pay for a carfax and/or a mechanic to look at it if they so choose. If they come for a test drive just make sure they're legit, and preferably have come in, and leave with you, their own car. Try to have all the service records for the car. There should be more tips on the web for what to list in your ad and what to do when selling. And you can check the DMV site for legal details as well, though it should be pretty simple - there should be a small detachable part of your CA Title that you fill out and send in to notify the DMV of a change of Title, which is all I had to do.

Good luck with whichever you end up selling and keeping though.

[RakEx]

I would rather ride a bike than drive a Vibe. Personal preference. Just seems like a real chick car to me. But new is new i guess.

I drive a G6 btw and i like it a lot. Its the GTP model though which is it pretty good step up from the base model and GT. I know you said they are just a bit out of your price range which is unfortunate cause its a solid car. Also, sucks that you cant use the money towards a used car cause you that would really open up your selection.

[archibaldcrane]

So now my problem is this - I want a specific car, Black, Auto, Power package, A/C, with or without the iPod hookup.

And there's only one in 100 miles.

And while every dealership in the area sees it and says "I can get it for you" - they can't for the price I want. And the guy that has it, in Pasadena, knows it.

That negro is cockblocking me from my car. Now I could either try to get the next closest one, in San Diego (ugh), or back off my insistence on black and get the dark metallic grey color...

Car I want:
http://driving.canada.com/carbuild/i...ackmet9898.jpg

Dark metallic grey:
http://heraldbulletin.autoconx.com/p...968216_1_B.jpg

Thoughts?

Also thanks for the used car selling stuff Avinor - I'd be lying if I said I have all my repair paperwork organized and put together somewhere for the Nissan.../sigh.

[Avinor]

I was in the fortunate position of having bought that car from my parents originally, who are borderline anal on keeping papers. When I sold the car I had: the original window sticker, original gloss brouchers from the dealership, pricing reports from the internet, and receipts for every service, smog check, tire replacement and oil change the car ever had(11 years worth by the time I sold it). And since the last oil change I had done at a Toyota dealership right before selling the car (and I went ahead and had the timing belt replaced since it was apparently due) the buyers were pretty comfortable with it being mechanically sound. Plus, it was a Toyota.

As for your car - funny enough I saw a new Vibe in that dark metallic grey drive by me this very morning, and I immediately thought of this thread. I thought it looked pretty good, I can understand why you'd want a darker color for this car. Its a bit slab-sided and chunky in a way, which the lighter colors only accentuate. But I thought the grey looked fine, and I think it'll be perfectly comprable to black. And if helps your bargaining position, I'd say go for it.

P.S. - another anal recordkeeping habit I picked up from my parents is a little logbook thats kept in the car. Its mostly for help keeping track of oil changes, tires and services, but it also has room for recording every fillup you get (date, mileage, gallons and price). Its kinda fun going back and seeing $1 gas. Does anyone else out there do this? Surely my family can't be the only ones, since the people who make these ledgers would have gone out of business by now.

[archibaldcrane]

I've been on the lookout for Vibe/Matrix owners lately, I want to ask them how they like their car if I catch one parking or whatever. Funny thing is, I've seen probably 10 Matrixes (Matricies?) in the past couple weeks, and 0 Vibes.

Yeah, I'm coming around on the grey - I might call the San Diego dealer with the black and see if I can work it out over the phone and then road trip to buy it, if not I'll go grey.

I've moved, um, 6 times since I've had the Nissan, paperwork always seems to get lost. I'm terrible at keeping papers in line for anything (taxes, car stuff, insurance, etc.) - I need one of those accordion folders and to actually use it.

[510Meeze]

You should be able to walk in and pay 100-200 over invoice minus dealer incentives pretty easily. My old manager runs a handful of dealerships (not sure if GM is one) in Walnut Creek, so maybe I had an easier time of it, but most new cars are mini deals now from what he tells me.

The money in new cars is usually in the finance department where you buy all the scotch guard and extended warranties etc. Most dealerships make their money off of the service department, you think salesmen are bad, they have nothing on what happens in the service department, and no one ever tries to haggle with them lol.

[archibaldcrane]

You should be able to walk in and pay 100-200 over invoice minus dealer incentives pretty easily.

The problem of course is that not all dealer incentives are easy to see. I can find out the manufacturer to dealer incentive, which is $500 right now on this car, and then there's a 3% dealer holdback on total MSRP. Now if that's all that is being offered for dealer incentives, then we're looking at, on this car, $588.90 in dealer holdback and $500 m to d incentive for $1088.90 total. However, either they're selling for a loss (which I doubt) or there's something else in that formula that I can't uncover, because...

The dealer called back and is offering it to me for $17,500 before $2500 cash back. $17,500 is $416 below Edmunds.com's before cash-back "TMV", $797 below the TrueCar.com before cash-back average (and it's in their "great price" range for my region by $247 - only one car has sold in the past 30 for less,) $1247 below invoice, and $2160 below MSRP.

If it's selling for $1247 below invoice, there must be another dealer incentive besides the $1088.90 I can account for, dunno what though.

Tomorrow I have to fly home to Madison for a few days for my cousin's funeral. I might wait it out, but then again if the car does sell...I'm stuck with grey or San Diego as my options. Not sure what to do. Debating calling back and saying "if you can do it for $17,400, I'll bring my checkbook and put down a deposit right now". Bleh.

[Velgadess]

GL with whatever you do. I plan to be in the new car shopping mode in the next few months. I'm leaning towards a Mazda 6 2009. I currently drive a '98 Mazda Protege. no headaches at all in my 8+ yrs of ownership.

[510Meeze]

Debating calling back and saying "if you can do it for $17,400, I'll bring my checkbook and put down a deposit right now". Bleh.

Deposits are more binding in the customers mind than the dealerships. A car isn't sold until the customer takes delivery (You drive it off the lot).

New cars are "packed" by the manufacturer, the invoice price you find on the internet is what the manufacturer sells to the dealership for. A lot of dealerships will offer losses on cars (mostly american dealers) because there are usually incentives for the dealership to move units per month/day/year/etc.

[jmc]

So now my problem is this - I want a specific car, Black, Auto, Power package, A/C, with or without the iPod hookup.

And there's only one in 100 miles.

And while every dealership in the area sees it and says "I can get it for you" - they can't for the price I want. And the guy that has it, in Pasadena, knows it.

That negro is cockblocking me from my car. Now I could either try to get the next closest one, in San Diego (ugh), or back off my insistence on black and get the dark metallic grey color...

Car I want:
http://driving.canada.com/carbuild/i...ackmet9898.jpg

Dark metallic grey:
http://heraldbulletin.autoconx.com/p...968216_1_B.jpg

Thoughts?

Also thanks for the used car selling stuff Avinor - I'd be lying if I said I have all my repair paperwork organized and put together somewhere for the Nissan.../sigh.

If the dealer cannot get it for the price you want, walk away.

Dealerships TRADE cars all the time.... same models, just different colors. They dont spend a dime, besides transport fees. Walk away from the deal, and they will call you back saying they can get it for the price.

[archibaldcrane]

We're only $200 apart now, and at either price it's an excellent deal. For me now it's a vanity thing, because I want to be able to say I got it for under 11 grand, and right now it would be just under $11,200. We'll see how the winds blow when I get back to LA in a few days.

Re: the dealer trade thing, any dealer that hasn't had the actual car I want in stock has shown little interest in negotiating once I tell them what price I'm after. And I've been to 6 dealers now. I'm in a good spot, now it's just a staring contest over $200.

[archibaldcrane]

Update: The dealer sold the black one while I was home for my cousin's funeral, so I'm getting the metallic grey one tomorrow for $11,060 plus tax and title. (57% of the car's original MSRP of $19,480 - one hell of a deal).

I -still- don't know if I'm going to flip it or not. For some reason this is one of the hardest decisions I've ever made. I go back and forth on it daily, and have been for the past 3 weeks.

The easiest route would be to trade in the Nissan for whatever shit they'll give me, keep the Vibe and drive it. That's also the most expensive route, as my insurance will be higher, the trade-in value for the Nissan will be garbage, the gas mileage on the Vibe is worse, etc.

I could keep both and put them both up for sale, keeping whichever doesn't sell first. That would just be putting the situation in the hands of fate, which given my shifting moods on it constantly might not be a bad thing. However listing both cars on sites and such would be annoying, and attempting to private sell either car has it's own challenges, since private-selling a brand new car is just weird (and who the fuck in L.A. drives a Pontiac Vibe - in the past month I've seen probably 30 Matrixes and only 2 Vibes) but the Nissan has hood damage (which prevents it from latching properly) a wonky A/C unit (works only some of the time) and a windshield that needs replacing due to a 2-foot crack in it.

I'm buying the Vibe tomorrow, because it is such an insane deal, but I still don't know what to do. I love new car shopping, but obsessing over the financials to this extreme is starting to wear on me.

BLLLLLLLAAAAAAARRRRGGH.

edit: The one other thing I'm considering is selling both and buying a Nissan Altima Hybrid. The rebates and tax credits on that fucker are insane, and with gas prices down some I think there are crazy deals to be had ($3250 cash back and $2350 tax credit right now) - it looks like I could get one for $18,500 or so plus tax and title. -That's- a car I'd actually love to have.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Picture3-1.png
Some people are getting the Altima Hybrid for $22,700 or less, -before- the $5600 in cash back and tax credits - that's $16,900!

Do I really want to go through all that would be required, to sell two cars (one beat up, one brand new) and negotiate for a 3rd? Jesus Christ.

[Skjie]

Also have to think what your costs on the Nissan will be over the next few years if it already has problem with it.

[archibaldcrane]

Also have to think what your costs on the Nissan will be over the next few years if it already has problem with it.

The thing is, other than the A/C (and that was due to an accident as well) - the problems are cosmetic really. The car runs great, 70,000 miles.

But yeah, I've considered future repair costs vs. higher insurance. Thing is, any new car I'll get comprehensive and collision on, which runs me like $1100 a year -more- than I'm paying in insurance right now - it would be hard to top that guaranteed yearly expenditure via repairs.

To tell the truth, I'm just dreading privately selling either car, much less both - and that's just because I've never done it before and have no idea what to expect. I wish I could just snap my fingers and turn both cars into an Altima Hybrid.

[Azkarin2]

Just making sure you realize this (probably do) but there is a new bill that will give up to $4500 for you to buy a new more efficient vehicle. Maybe that would help get you the dream Altima? Good luck!

[archibaldcrane]

...

I'm so fucking livid right now.

Negotiated the final price, $14,850 after $2500 cash back. I went to the dealer to present my GM Mastercard rewards and write a check for the rest. After waiting 90 minutes (despite having an appointment at 2 p.m.) they finally get around to starting my paperwork. I presented my GM Mastercard earnings sheet and they took it to process.

Then they came back a few minutes later, saying "we can't give you that price and then use the GM Card earnings on top of it."

I was aghast. They claimed that they were giving me a "GM Employee Discount" to get the quoted price so low. I countered that, one, I'm not a fucking GM Employee, and two, they weren't giving me the GM Employee Price (which is just a price, not a discount - it's a set price for each car on the lot) - they were giving me lower than the GM Employee Price, which is what I negotiated.

They said no, if we can't do the Employee price we have to do it at Invoice (like $1300 more than we had negotiated.) or they would lose money.

I was so fucking furious. I tried to call the GM Mastercard rewards hotline, but it's only open Monday through Friday, so I got my shit together and left.

Basically, this "GM Employee Price" is a completely bullshit price, but it triggers some sort of additional factory-to-dealer incentive, and without that incentive money (that is completely unearned since they were offering it to me while well aware that I am not a GM employee) they couldn't sell the car at that price.

I'd take a fucking crowbar to every car window on the lot if I could. I'm so furious - I was physically shaking at the dealership when they pulled their offer out from under me.

It's so ridiculous.

Also, in the process of trying to complete this transaction, they successfully triggered my GM Card earnings and now my earnings account balance is $0 - yet I have no car to show for it.

Obviously I'm going to call the GM Card earnings center on monday, but beyond getting my account balance restored - I know that they won't force the dealer to honor their offer, even though the GM Card earnings are supposed to be "same as cash" and presented after "negotiating the final price".

It's easy. When you're ready to redeem your Earnings, simply:

* Visit your GM dealer and choose the eligible, new GM vehicle you want.
* Negotiate your best price, including most currently available incentives.
* Identify yourself as a GM Cardmember, then let the dealer deduct your available Earnings for your exclusive Cardmember price, up to the Redemption Allowance.

The redemption allowance reverts to $1000 for most cars on July 1st, as opposed to the current uncapped ($3800 for me) promotional allowance.