+ Reply to Thread
Page 9 of 284 FirstFirst ... 7 8 9 10 11 19 59 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 5661

Thread: Large Hardon Collider     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #161
    United States of Smash!
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    8,644
    BG Level
    8

    Isn't that one of the current great mysteries that we hope to understand? After the big bang and currently visible matter in the universe while it is expanding is also being concentrated into strings of concentrated areas. The matter distribution in the universe kinda looks like a spider web now and we are not sure what is filling the "empty" areas or why matter is concentrating itself into certain areas. I think this is where the dark matter hypotheses came about was to explain these formations.

  2. #162

    Quote Originally Posted by bigrougabagel View Post
    Ive seen that pic before, or something similar. It is insane to think how far away and how old the light from those galaxies is. Another question for you guys while i continue to try and algebra my way thru that first link miz posted on shwarzeneggersbaby equation. When we look deep into space we are looking into the past one could say. If we see an object that is 10billion LY away, then we are seeing it as it was 10 billion years ago. Considering that the age of our universe is tacked somewhere around 13.7 billion years old, would it be feasible to look far enough to see the big bang happen?
    Miz answered this a bit, however 2 main things:

    1. The universe is estimated to be about 2-3 times as old as you just quoted after recent studies on the background radiation.

    2. We "can" see much of the resultant radiation from the big bang, but it isnt in our spectrum, so we pick it up as a "cosmic background" as I mentioned in '1'.

    A few problems we currently have with the big bang (to boggle your mind).

    a. the great anti-baryonic annihilation. (The reason there are almost no anti-baryons that we can find, which counters conservation laws we know of. It is believed there was an inbalance in the early universe).
    b. greater than relativistic expansion at some point between the original explosion and now is needed to have the universe in its current condition.. (Perhaps physics as we know and observe it was fundamentally different for those first X seconds/days/years. Or perhaps our models are just that wrong..

    Start studying up on early galaxy formations, and you will start to see how and why (theoretically) the first black holes started to form, and how they helped form our current galaxies. Really amazing stuff.

    edit: And to Zoober- Ya, there is where most of dark matter theories come from. But to me dark matter is just "X" in the big equation. It is just a way for people to put a name to the MASSIVE inconsistancies between our current gravitational models and what we are observing in space. I believe we need to fundamentally rework our mass/gravitational equations. Hopefully that will be a bi-product of my work, or somebodies work in the next 100 years..

    Daunting task though. For any of my work to be correct it has to:
    1. Explain the dark matter inconsistancies.
    2. Explain and repostulate relativity.
    3. Detail matter/mass/gravity relationships.
    4. Be valid accross all physics domains (i.e. theory of everything, model that can be used in classical and relativistic physics).

    It is almost scary to think of.

  3. #163
    Salvage Bans
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    870
    BG Level
    5
    FFXI Server
    Leviathan
    WoW Realm
    Proudmoore

    Based on the last picture. It appears that throughout most of the history of the universe, the expansion has been relatively slow, and is only more recently starting to increase due to which of the following...

    A. Dark Matter
    B. Dark Energy
    C. Liberals

    That is an interesting model tho, i had no idea that our universe had such a uniform volume for such a long time.

    Dark ages in this case would be a time in which matter was still too hot to allow gravity to form it into stars, planets etc? If that is the case, what kind of threshold was crossed that allowed for matter to begin the accretion process and begin to form more massive objects? Was that due to increased expansion and dispersion of heat energy or something else?

  4. #164
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,050
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    The answer is always C.

  5. #165
    Salvage Bans
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    870
    BG Level
    5
    FFXI Server
    Leviathan
    WoW Realm
    Proudmoore

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post

    Start studying up on early galaxy formations, and you will start to see how and why (theoretically) the first black holes started to form, and how they helped form our current galaxies. Really amazing stuff.
    Hmm, I have a general idea about how a galaxy works but never really looked into formation. From what i understand, it appears that a black hole is essential in some ways to creating a galaxy. I recall some observations that showed that every galaxy we can see had a black hole at the center, which seems to indicate they are linked somehow. But, chicken? egg? which? I will get into that, any particular resource you would recommend?

    Thanks again for all the info guys, i should have plenty to keep me from doing the house work i should be doing now.

  6. #166

    Quote Originally Posted by bigrougabagel View Post
    Based on the last picture. It appears that throughout most of the history of the universe, the expansion has been relatively slow, and is only more recently starting to increase due to which of the following...

    A. Dark Matter
    B. Dark Energy
    C. Liberals

    That is an interesting model tho, i had no idea that our universe had such a uniform volume for such a long time.

    Dark ages in this case would be a time in which matter was still too hot to allow gravity to form it into stars, planets etc? If that is the case, what kind of threshold was crossed that allowed for matter to begin the accretion process and begin to form more massive objects? Was that due to increased expansion and dispersion of heat energy or something else?
    Pretty much just expansion. However, it didnt just form into stars and planets then. Planets usually dont come about till after a star expodes and sends alot more heavy elements into the system, then reforms (not counting failed stars or super planets that are mostly just hydrogen).

    Edit: Ill see if I can find some easily readable resources, I was going off some recent papers which are a bit .. thick. As for black hole or galaxy first: Black Hole.

    When you have/had a large area of gas and matter, alot of these black holes began to form. Their mass would pull each other in and larger black holes would form. Other matter in that cloud of dusk would start orbiting these massive black holes, and you get the first formations of a galaxy. Inside these orbiting clouds you start getting other smaller black holes and star formations. Then after a few super novas you get some higher element planets and POOF life emerges!

    That or god did it.

  7. #167
    Salvage Bans
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    870
    BG Level
    5
    FFXI Server
    Leviathan
    WoW Realm
    Proudmoore

    yeah, i guess planets was a bad word there. I understand that for at least terrestrial planets to form requires heavier elements which can only be produced in a dying star. Hence that one song that every fucking middle school science teacher plays for their class when studying astronomy "we are all made of stars" or something. Yes, thats what we need, a damn stupid song to explain the cosmos, whch is why i prefer to use "parents just dont understand" to combat drug problems in inner city troubled youth.

  8. #168

    Love these topics, but going to a BBQ, back later guys. Dont solve any of the great mysteries without me!

  9. #169
    Salvage Bans
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    870
    BG Level
    5
    FFXI Server
    Leviathan
    WoW Realm
    Proudmoore

    I really should go do the yard work i should have been doing all morning.... but before i do i will post this and see what kind of bricks i can get hurled at me.

    This was in regards to Miz's post earlier of the shwarzeneggerbaby equation and explaination found here.

    Gothos: Jillian's Guide to Black Holes

    I am still on the first equation there, trying to figure out how they arrived at a UOM for Rs being m/kg, also I am kind of lost as to what a m/kg would mean, other than inverting it and getting a density(which makes a lot more sense). I used G that i found on wiki to be 6.667x10^-11 N(m/kg)^2 and i keep coming up with Rs = M x [(m x s^2) / kg]. Which would make my final uom ms^2. Am i using the correct form of the constant G?

    Also, is there a nice pretty and FREE program that i could use to clean up the equations? Typing them out on this format makes them look so bulky and strung together like redneck christmas lights.
    __________________

  10. #170
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,050
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    Quote Originally Posted by bigrougabagel View Post

    Dark ages in this case would be a time in which matter was still too hot to allow gravity to form it into stars, planets etc? If that is the case, what kind of threshold was crossed that allowed for matter to begin the accretion process and begin to form more massive objects? Was that due to increased expansion and dispersion of heat energy or something else?

    Exactly right, In order for matter to begin to settle and form the universe first had to cool down significantly for the forces to begin to operate. In the first 10^-43 seconds (Max's beloved Planck's unit. I know this is a fraction of a fraction of time but remember thats all there was at the time of the Big Bang) it was simply far too hot for the laws of physics, as we understand them currently today, to function. Shortly thereafter the first matter did indeed begin to form, quarks and leptons (including electrons), along with various high energy photons. Everything was all mixed up in a super high temperature primordial soup of these elemental particles, which all still had far too much energy to interact with one another.

    After 10^-34 seconds had expired the temperature was only then low enough for the strong force to begin to operate, quarks were attracted together to form nucleons; protons and neutrons.

    By time the baby universe was roughly a mere 100 seconds old its continued expansion then had caused temperatures to drop to around 1 billion degrees Kelvin, and the residual strong force attraction from the quarks began to bind stray protons and neutrons together into the universes first nuclei, either deuterium or helium nuclei. It wasn't for another 300, 000 years or so before the temperature dropped below 10000 K though, and the electromagnetic force attracted negative electrons to positive nuclei and the baby universes first atoms were formed, all of them either Helium or Hydrogen. We still see this fundamental principle at work still today.

    Our planets and what we know as Exo-planets needed and depended on a lot more than that to form though. If all the atoms in the universe were Helium or Hydrogen then something had to smash them together to make heavier atoms right? We refer to that as nuclear fusion and it requires a shit tons and unimaginable amounts of energy, only available and readily available in the now forming stars. Gravity pulled the clouds of Hydrogen and Helium (Much like we see in Nebulae) together into massive balls of matter where the temperatures inside rose until Fusion began and the first stars shone brightly. Stars are nothing more than gigantic Fusion reactors manufacturing heavier atoms from Hydrogen and Helium, after a star has exhausted it's light atom fuel it will die in a supernova, expunging the heavier elements in an enormous explosion out into the cosmos, again, a process in which we see and witness around us on a daily basis.

    Yet here we stand, still no planets. Just tons and tons of heavier atoms, some of which are constantly decaying back to Helium and Hydrogen. The effects of gravity slowly tugs and pulls the remains of what was once a star back into a spinning accretion disc, and eventually a new star begins to form. Roughly 99% of the matter in the an accretion disc goes into the formation of a star, but enough is left over for other objects to form throughout a particular solar system. Initially the new star flickers bright and dim and creates gusts of solar wind which in turn blow out light gassy atoms away from its center.

    These then begin to condense and start to accumulate together into the planets that we know as gas giants (i.e. Jupiter, Netune, Saturn). It takes roughly 100 million years for the star to calm down and shine properly and the heavier elements, metals, carbons, silicons etc all begin to coagulate themselves into these ever growing clumps and planetesimals, eventually forming smaller rocky planets like what we know as Mars, Venus, Mercury and our Earth. Our solar system is thought to have formed to roughly it's present makeup 4.5 billion years ago, while the big bang is thought to have occurred around 14 billion years ago.

    In short the "brand new" matter first condensed out of energy as the universe expanded and cooled after the big bang, planets form from heavy atoms around second, third or even 4th generation stars.

  11. #171
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,050
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post
    Love these topics, but going to a BBQ, back later guys. Dont solve any of the great mysteries without me!
    We wont, my hands are aching...

  12. #172

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizango View Post
    We wont, my hands are aching...
    And not a person here believes its because of all the typing you're doing, Miz...

  13. #173
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,050
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    lol smart folks.

  14. #174
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,050
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    Also this, speaking of my super awesome WMAP imaging :D

    New Class Of Pulsars Solve Mystery Of Previously Unidentified Gamma-ray Sources

    and this, This is a news article about us discovering 2 brand new solar systems forming. I mean solar system as in what we have. Glad we're so special and privileged and were chosen to be here.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0701103008.htm

  15. #175
    Salvage Bans
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    870
    BG Level
    5
    FFXI Server
    Leviathan
    WoW Realm
    Proudmoore

    Miz, i think you know what has to be done. You need to convince Tyson to create a BG account and post here. Neil deGrasse Tyson can tell you both the position and momentum of a particle.

  16. #176
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,050
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    You know something? I should do that, I have his email address hmmmm

  17. #177
    St. Fiat
    THE TIME FOR QUESTIONS
    HAS PASSED

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,808
    BG Level
    7

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizango View Post
    You know something? I should do that, I have his email address hmmmm
    Whenever I see him on TV I think he must smell like ginger. You should ask him if that's true.

  18. #178
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,050
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    lol bake sales.

  19. #179
    Title: "HUBBLE GOTCHU!" (without the quotes, of course [and without "(without the quotes, of course)", of course], etc)
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,141
    BG Level
    7

    Quote Originally Posted by bigrougabagel View Post
    Is there any kind of online literature that you guys could recommend on black holes and the math behind them? I understand the general simplifications behind a black hole, but without the math, it feels kind of like a hollow understanding... like being able to drive a car but not knowing how to put gas in it. /endramble
    If you're serious about getting a deep understanding of this, then you need to go the all the way with it. By that, I mean you need to study formal texts on the math and physics involved. I don't know where you are now mathematically, but you'll need lots of calculus, algebra, and geometry to understand relativity. Some websites and books will try to give a few equations on black holes and such in a simplified algebraic manner, but that wont really expand your understanding of the subject. You need to go a library and read actual textbooks.

    Start with the basics: Calculus, differential equations (ordinary and partial [and differential equations study should include Fourier analysis as well as general sturm-liouville equations]), complex analysis, and linear algebra. The basics are way easier than they sound. I finished all of those before I even graduated freakin high school. These subjects are the foundation of all physics study.

    After the basics, where you'll go depends highly upon what you want to study. For me, going the quantum mechanics/particle physics route, I went for Abstract Algebra, Group Theory, Functional Analysis, etc. But to study black holes, you'd need a route that includes differential geometry. Neo and Max can probably comment more on that. I've done only a small amount of study in this area.

    As soon as you finish calculus, you can start with a calculus-based physics book. Most would recommend Douglass Giancoli as the best author on the subject. I personally recommend paul Tipler ( here's a review I've written on it. Scroll all the way down)

    From there, you'll go to modern physics, to Classical Mechanics (the same level as the Analytical Mechanics in my review, but don't use that exact same book. I used one by goldberg or goldstein, whatever; one by Marion and Thornton, and one by Landau and Lifshitz [that last one is graduate level study]), to Classical Electricity and Magnetism, to QM. Make sure you don't start QM until after you finish linear algebra. It will make your life much easier. For E&M and QM, Griffiths is the most recommend author, especially for QM. I skilled undergrad level QM and went straight to Shankar and the one by that Schabl guy. The graduate level QM requires functional analysis, but if you're mainly interested in black holes, you don't need graduate QM (yet).

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post
    Love these topics, but going to a BBQ, back later guys. Dont solve any of the great mysteries without me!
    Great, he's finally gone. Let's post our Grand Unification Theories and erase them before he gets back!

  20. #180

    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    Great, he's finally gone. Let's post our Grand Unification Theories and erase them before he gets back!
    My etch and sketch is totally ready for some fast paced eye popping blood pumping action!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 9 of 284 FirstFirst ... 7 8 9 10 11 19 59 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Two Nuclear Submarines Collide in Atlantic Ocean
    By Firedemon in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 2009-02-18, 05:38
  2. The Large Hadron Collider goes online tonight...
    By alt in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 2008-09-10, 00:50
  3. Large Hadron Collider...
    By Jotaru in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 71
    Last Post: 2007-11-05, 21:42